Series Thread: Sharks Vs Preds

[mr.hockey4242]

Pavelski had a terrible game by the standards he set this year at least. He was owned by Weber all night. He had a couple good tips but that was it. Lost the puck with bad turnovers a few times and lost his man on the backcheck a lot. The first two periods Thornton covered for a lot of Pavelski errors.

Burns was certainly good but it was Thornton and Marleau who drove the play last night forcing Lavi to change his match ups and opening up ice for Couture's line.

Agreed with all of this.

And saying hockey is all about "goals" is just nonsense. Winning the game is about scoring more than you allow, but a player can have a hell of a game and not get in the stat sheet.

Jumbo and Patty were great.

 

[Cbrower91]

They won.....by a lot that's all that matters

 

[sjrules99]

Agreed with all of this.

And saying hockey is all about "goals" is just nonsense. Winning the game is about scoring more than you allow, but a player can have a hell of a game and not get in the stat sheet.

Jumbo and Patty were great.

I never said that guys cant have good games if they dont create goals. In fact, I said that they definitely can. but hockey is all about goals. Its not nonsense at all, and I have watched countless games where the sharks played great games in the playoffs and lost. At the end of the day, if you dont score a goal and your team gets shutout 1-0, it doesnt much matter how "well" you played. You lost. the end. spaling, tierney, wingels and the like have a job to NOT be a minus, possibly chip in once in a while, kill a penalty or two, and maybe draw a call and tire out the opponent with a grind. Jumbo and patty have a role of creating goals while not giving them up. That's their job, so a 'good' game where they combine for no points and -1 is not doing their job, no matter how much possession they have.

And pavs had a worst game than some of his others, but to call that game a bad one is wrong. that saucer to cooch on the backhard was sweet for the GWG, and he had a few other near misses. He was good, not as good as the cooch line who was supreme, but still good.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I never said that guys cant have good games if they dont create goals. In fact, I said that they definitely can. but hockey is all about goals. Its not nonsense at all, and I have watched countless games where the sharks played great games in the playoffs and lost. At the end of the day, if you dont score a goal and your team gets shutout 1-0, it doesnt much matter how "well" you played. You lost. the end. spaling, tierney, wingels and the like have a job to NOT be a minus, possibly chip in once in a while, kill a penalty or two, and maybe draw a call and tire out the opponent with a grind. Jumbo and patty have a role of creating goals while not giving them up. That's their job, so a 'good' game where they combine for no points and -1 is not doing their job, no matter how much possession they have.

And pavs had a worst game than some of his others, but to call that game a bad one is wrong. that saucer to cooch on the backhard was sweet for the GWG, and he had a few other near misses. He was good, not as good as the cooch line who was supreme, but still good.

You still don't get it. Goals matter for the TEAM. Not for the individual in 1 game. You can still play a fantastic game that directly impacts winning a hockey game. That is a fact. This isn't a sport where you score 100 pts in 1 game, it is all about sustaining pressure and attacking which eventually leads to opportunities and that's what happened last night.

It doesn't matter how well you played if the team lost? Thanks Sherlock. Thornton could score 4 goals in a 5-4 loss, it's still a fucking loss.

And +|- lol. Let's just please leave that in the past.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

I never said that guys cant have good games if they dont create goals. In fact, I said that they definitely can. but hockey is all about goals. Its not nonsense at all, and I have watched countless games where the sharks played great games in the playoffs and lost. At the end of the day, if you dont score a goal and your team gets shutout 1-0, it doesnt much matter how "well" you played. You lost. the end. spaling, tierney, wingels and the like have a job to NOT be a minus, possibly chip in once in a while, kill a penalty or two, and maybe draw a call and tire out the opponent with a grind. Jumbo and patty have a role of creating goals while not giving them up. That's their job, so a 'good' game where they combine for no points and -1 is not doing their job, no matter how much possession they have.

And pavs had a worst game than some of his others, but to call that game a bad one is wrong. that saucer to cooch on the backhard was sweet for the GWG, and he had a few other near misses. He was good, not as good as the cooch line who was supreme, but still good.

The point I'm making is the reason the Couture line was so effective in the 3rd period is because Thornton and Marleau were murdering their match ups and Lavi had to make adjustments. He was forced into putting one of his bottom two lines and third pairing dmen against Couture and that line took advantage of the mismatch. All because of the play of Thornton and Marleau. Those mismatches also led to two of the Sharks three PPs one of which resulted in a goal. Again, even though they didn't record a point the play of Thornton and Marleau was of huge importance in two of the three Sharks goals including the game winner.

 

[sjrules99]

The point I'm making is the reason the Couture line was so effective in the 3rd period is because Thornton and Marleau were murdering their match ups and Lavi had to make adjustments. He was forced into putting one of his bottom two lines and third pairing dmen against Couture and that line took advantage of the mismatch. All because of the play of Thornton and Marleau. Those mismatches also led to two of the Sharks three PPs one of which resulted in a goal. Again, even though they didn't record a point the play of Thornton and Marleau was of huge importance in two of the three Sharks goals including the game winner.

Bidetto and jackman were not on the ice for a single goal against at EV or SH? How is that making it jumbo and patty creating a matchup problem. the cooch line didnt score against the 3rd pairing on any of the three goals (cooch's 2 and ward), if fact no line scored on them. neither of bidetto or jackman took a penalty as well. I just dont credit jumbo and patty with creating the goals by others since they didnt draw a call, didnt match up against the other top pair leaving the 3rd exposed.

No doubt top 4 D for nashville got a little worn down by the play of all three (four) lines and by anaheim (thanks quacks!). In that regard, the whole team can pretty much be credited with pretty good pressure, especially in the second half.

Im not saying once again that they had bad games, just that it's nice to win without them producing on the scoresheet. I think in teams past, if those two were off the sheet, the team didnt win. This year, those two can remain completely pointless, and they still win because the rest of the team is a really solid. I mean, right now, jumbo and patty rank T-5 and T-7 respectively. When was the last time those two ranked outside of the top 4 in scoring AND the team was winning.

In fact, looking back, they have NEVER both been out of the top 3 (let alone top 4), most years both are in the top 4, with several years as 1-2 in scoring. This year is just really different.

 

[sjrules99]

You still don't get it. Goals matter for the TEAM. Not for the individual in 1 game. You can still play a fantastic game that directly impacts winning a hockey game. That is a fact. This isn't a sport where you score 100 pts in 1 game, it is all about sustaining pressure and attacking which eventually leads to opportunities and that's what happened last night.

It doesn't matter how well you played if the team lost? Thanks Sherlock. Thornton could score 4 goals in a 5-4 loss, it's still a fucking loss.

And +|- lol. Let's just please leave that in the past.

I think you and cmon are trying to tell me the same thing, namely that controlling play and wearing out the opposition can lead to goals scored by other lines. You don't score the goal, but you get the invisible assist. That's what you are saying right?

I agree. I didnt see it this game and the data dont seem to show it either (see previous post), but my original point in this whole little discussion was just about winning with those two off the sheet. its never happened consistently (see previous post again), yet this year they are 2-0. Those two combined for just 2 goals in 6 games, yet the team is 5-1 having scored 21 total goals. that's something the sharks have never had, and its fun, and it gives me the feeling that they have something different.

I think this is a cup year at last!

 

[Cbrower91]

They need to locate that cat and bring him back also

 

[sjrules99]

They need to locate that cat and bring him back also

hahaha, what happened with that? I saw some little clip, but what was the deal with that?

 

[Cbrower91]

hahaha, what happened with that? I saw some little clip, but what was the deal with that?

He ran out off the Sharks bench while they were setting up and he ran in front of the Preds bench off the ice lol. It's superstition

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Bidetto and jackman were not on the ice for a single goal against at EV or SH? How is that making it jumbo and patty creating a matchup problem. the cooch line didnt score against the 3rd pairing on any of the three goals (cooch's 2 and ward), if fact no line scored on them. neither of bidetto or jackman took a penalty as well. I just dont credit jumbo and patty with creating the goals by others since they didnt draw a call, didnt match up against the other top pair leaving the 3rd exposed.

No doubt top 4 D for nashville got a little worn down by the play of all three (four) lines and by anaheim (thanks quacks!). In that regard, the whole team can pretty much be credited with pretty good pressure, especially in the second half.

Im not saying once again that they had bad games, just that it's nice to win without them producing on the scoresheet. I think in teams past, if those two were off the sheet, the team didnt win. This year, those two can remain completely pointless, and they still win because the rest of the team is a really solid. I mean, right now, jumbo and patty rank T-5 and T-7 respectively. When was the last time those two ranked outside of the top 4 in scoring AND the team was winning.

In fact, looking back, they have NEVER both been out of the top 3 (let alone top 4), most years both are in the top 4, with several years as 1-2 in scoring. This year is just really different.

If you look at the shift charts in periods 1 and 2 most of Coutures ES shifts came against Ellis and Ekholm. In the 3rd a majority were against Jackman's pair. The goal came when Coutures line just came on the ice and the Sharks were able to transition before the Pred's D could change.

Anyways, all that is beside the point. My initial response was to your statement that Thornton and Marleau were useless in this game to which I've explained my position on why I think that was an inaccurate view of their play. Anytime your play forces the other team to adjust how they are playing against you then you are playing well and doing something right.

I agree, it is nice to see the team win without Thornton and Marleau directly putting points on the board. Though, I don't think Thornton will be held off the scoresheet much longer and if they keep Tierney with Marleau we will probably see more production there as well.

At last report the cat is being fed and watered and kept in the arena.

 

[Cbrower91]

I think you and cmon are trying to tell me the same thing, namely that controlling play and wearing out the opposition can lead to goals scored by other lines. You don't score the goal, but you get the invisible assist. That's what you are saying right?

I agree. I didnt see it this game and the data dont seem to show it either (see previous post), but my original point in this whole little discussion was just about winning with those two off the sheet. its never happened consistently (see previous post again), yet this year they are 2-0. Those two combined for just 2 goals in 6 games, yet the team is 5-1 having scored 21 total goals. that's something the sharks have never had, and its fun, and it gives me the feeling that they have something different.

I think this is a cup year at last!

I don't of its a cup year but it's without a doubt the best chance ive seen this team having a chance to make it to the dance and play for it, thier drive and thier gumption to pick themselves up and keep coming back for more is inspiring go watch, I'm really enjoying this years playoffs more so then any other year because it seems like a real possibility finally

 

[Cbrower91]

If you look at the shift charts in periods 1 and 2 most of Coutures ES shifts came against Ellis and Ekholm. In the 3rd a majority were against Jackman's pair. The goal came when Coutures line just came on the ice and the Sharks were able to transition before the Pred's D could change.

Anyways, all that is beside the point. My initial response was to your statement that Thornton and Marleau were useless in this game to which I've explained my position on why I think that was an inaccurate view of their play. Anytime your play forces the other team to adjust how they are playing against you then you are playing well and doing something right.

I agree, it is nice to see the team win without Thornton and Marleau directly putting points on the board. Though, I don't think Thornton will be held off the scoresheet much longer and if they keep Tierney with Marleau we will probably see more production there as well.

At last report the cat is being fed and watered and kept in the arena.

most important move of the post season

 

[Cmon_WTF]

I don't of its a cup year but it's without a doubt the best chance ive seen this team having a chance to make it to the dance and play for it, thier drive and thier gumption to pick themselves up and keep coming back for more is inspiring go watch, I'm really enjoying this years playoffs more so then any other year because it seems like a real possibility finally

It was funny listening to the guys on the NHL station earlier today. They talked about how the Sharks were considered cup favorites for so long but this years team which they said is just as skilled but much deeper at every position wasn't even thought of as a contender by most until after they beat the Kings.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Preds recalled a goaltender today. Most likely just a 3rd goalie for practice but I do wonder about Rinne's health after seeing him with the trainer at the end of game one.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I think you and cmon are trying to tell me the same thing, namely that controlling play and wearing out the opposition can lead to goals scored by other lines. You don't score the goal, but you get the invisible assist. That's what you are saying right?

I agree. I didnt see it this game and the data dont seem to show it either (see previous post), but my original point in this whole little discussion was just about winning with those two off the sheet. its never happened consistently (see previous post again), yet this year they are 2-0. Those two combined for just 2 goals in 6 games, yet the team is 5-1 having scored 21 total goals. that's something the sharks have never had, and its fun, and it gives me the feeling that they have something different.

I think this is a cup year at last!

There isn't even "data" for what we are talking about.

Hockey isnt a sport where 1 guy just goes up and down and dominates scoring at will. Even a guy with a year like Patty Kane.

There are hundreds of ways to contribute. If Jumbo has a hell of a shift with a fierce two minute forecheck and sustained pressure and doesn't score is that still huge? Absolfuckinglutely. Now the other team can't change and they are gassed or the ice has completely tilted with momentum. Playing great hockey doesn't need to show up in the stat sheet every game. You did say they were useless and its just not correct.

Have you ever played hockey? Anyone who has will tell you the same thing. Just scoring a goal or not scoring doesn't determine how well you played. Most teams average 3 goals a game........so 3 players each night played great hockey?

 

[sjrules99]

There isn't even "data" for what we are talking about.

Hockey isnt a sport where 1 guy just goes up and down and dominates scoring at will. Even a guy with a year like Patty Kane.

There are hundreds of ways to contribute. If Jumbo has a hell of a shift with a fierce two minute forecheck and sustained pressure and doesn't score is that still huge? Absolfuckinglutely. Now the other team can't change and they are gassed or the ice has completely tilted with momentum. Playing great hockey doesn't need to show up in the stat sheet every game. You did say they were useless and its just not correct.

Have you ever played hockey? Anyone who has will tell you the same thing. Just scoring a goal or not scoring doesn't determine how well you played. Most teams average 3 goals a game........so 3 players each night played great hockey?

I do play hockey and have for nearly 20 years since high school through college and now, mostly C and RW as Im kinda small :-(. And you are right about a tough shift that leaves you gassed for 5 minutes on the bench. naturally, Ive been on both sides there. Ive also played games outshooting an opponent 40-10 and lost 2-1. Obviously, sometimes you lose those kind of games and if you play that well, generally you tend to win a 7 game series. that said, I have seen the sharks get "stoned" by a tough goalie in the PO's over and over, so I value actually putting the puck in a whole lot more than dominating shifts. I apologize for the poor word choice of "useless". They werent useless, I just meant that neither is really scoring much, despite that being a big part of thier job description.

Also, of course i'ts a team game. Quite so. I dont excpet jumbo and patty to score every game. However, 2 combined goals in 6 games is less than I am expecting, but I am thrilled that the rest of the team is picking it up. My comment was meant to be way more of a "way to go depth guys!" than a "patty and jumbo suck". Sorry for the misinterpretation

 

[Cbrower91]

Bring on the cat!!!!

 

[madcap9999]

I don't of its a cup year but it's without a doubt the best chance ive seen this team having a chance to make it to the dance and play for it, thier drive and thier gumption to pick themselves up and keep coming back for more is inspiring go watch, I'm really enjoying this years playoffs more so then any other year because it seems like a real possibility finally

Yeah the way they came back in the last 2 games is definitely something we haven't seen in a long time, if ever. Of course, having Couture back makes them much better than the 98 point team the standings showed. Agree that barring any serious injury to a premier player this is their best chance to make it, at for at least the chance to play for a Cup. Winning it is another story.

 

[sjrules99]

Yeah the way they came back in the last 2 games is definitely something we haven't seen in a long time, if ever. Of course, having Couture back makes them much better than the 98 point team the standings showed. Agree that barring any serious injury to a premier player this is their best chance to make it, at for at least the chance to play for a Cup. Winning it is another story.

Yeah, 3 lines who can score and a very serviceable and solid 4th line (wingels has played top 9 roles as has tierney). top 4 D are excellent with maybe the best #1 in the league now. and a goalie who is super calm under pressure and hasnt given up a single really bad goal in 6 games.