Game Thread: Seattle Seahawks @ Atlanta Falcons (Divisional Round)

[WizardHawk]

Those of you thinking they have regressed, if Thomas didn't miss the stretch run and post season where does this team finish? Keep ALL things exactly the same only he doesn't miss games. Does that change anything at all? Or are they still beaten in this round on the road?

The difference between teams at the highest level of the league is paper thin.

Add Lockett back in as well and it's all quite different.

They do need to improve a few positions and fix some of their depth. Every team needs to do that every off season. This suggestion they are that far off though seems quite perplexing on the surface of it. It feels more reactionary.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Those of you thinking they have regressed, if Thomas didn't miss the stretch run and post season where does this team finish? Keep ALL things exactly the same only he doesn't miss games. Does that change anything at all? Or are they still beaten in this round on the road?

The difference between teams at the highest level of the league is paper thin.

Add Lockett back in as well and it's all quite different.

They do need to improve a few positions and fix some of their depth. Every team needs to do that every off season. This suggestion they are that far off though seems quite perplexing on the surface of it. It feels more reactionary.

Speaking for myself, I actually feel better about this season then I did at the end of last season. Obviously need more work on the OL, but at least the interior of the OL shows some progress. The OL was green as grass this year, just getting a year of experience should help next year. Can these RBs stay healthy? It's a concern. Secondary needs some help.
However every team in the league has its issue, All things considered the Seahawks did well to make it as far as they did this year, I am confident they'll be better next year.

 

[AceKeptic]

Fire everybody.

Heh.

You need to go a step further, my friend.

Who to can:

 

[pittpnthrs]

Again, he's the ONLY coach in the entire team history to bring this city a championship. That's not saying you can't fire him because of past deeds, but it is clearly saying his philosophies have worked better than anyone else that has ever stepped on that sideline. Claiming he should be fired when this team is still going to the playoffs year after year and are a few plays away from still being in the same situation as they were in those years you believe they are so far removed from is just ludicrous IMO.

Yes, his philosophy worked when we had a historically good defense. The defense we have now is not what it once was and cant keep us in games when the offense lays an egg as it has for so many times. This team needs to score more points to be successful. Did anybody really feel good about this team when -

12 points at home vs Miami

3 points at Los Angeles.

13 points at New Orleans, against one of the league's worst defenses.

6 points at Arizona.

5 points at Tampa Bay.

10 points at Green Bay.

Lets face it, the defense is still pretty good, but nothing close to dominant. The offense needs serious help and Pete's not exactly a great offensive minded coach. Bevell isn't the help that's needed.

How many teams in all of football are better in your opinion? Which one of their HC's can you poach to take us to higher levels?

AFC - Patriots, Steelers, Raiders, Chiefs
NFC - Dallas, Falcons, Packers, Giants

Doubt we could poach any of those head coaches, but I'm sure there's a ton of coordinators that might bring something fresh to the table. Look, I don't want Pete to go, but if being loyal to your coordinators trumps the betterment of the team, I choose the team.

The core players are getting older and more prone to injuries? Thomas is 27. On what planet is that old? Sherman? 28 and hasn't been injured substantially. Wagner has been hurt once. He's 26.

Well they aren't getting any younger are they? Kam has been hurt a good bit, Bennett was hurt this year (should have never have resigned him and used the money on the line), and now Thomas is going to be coming back from a broken leg.

I get that the season just ended and people are worked up over it, but this team is not in as dire of straights as some of you want to portray it to be. Not by a long shot.

I just don't see things improving if the team stays on this same course. They will win the West again by default, win their home playoff game (maybe), and then lose immediately on the road. Some might be content with that, but I'm not. Heck if the Patriots got ousted in the 2nd round, their fans would consider that season a failure.

 

[Anointed One]

Tough loss... I watched this game up at Schweitzer Ski Resort... When the heart and soul of your team get's beat pretty much on every facet of the game, you know it's going to be a long day... Our defense was lit up like a torch.... Terrell missed more tackles than he made... Falcons offense was ready and the Hawks were clearly out coached and out played on that side of the ball.. It was very hard to watch... I don't think we would've won even with Thomas... There is no doubt about the better team winning today... I'm rooting for Atlanta to win the SB...

 

[dude82]

This was the first time in at least a few years that the offense didn't finish in the top 10 in scoring and the first time in five years that the defense didn't finish as the top scoring defense in the league. I don't think it's a coincidence that those things happened the same year that Russell Wilson had to deal with injuries limiting his mobility and throwing ability for half a season, which further limited what they could do since they were already getting limited production from the running game; and Earl Thomas had to deal with an injury that was so bad it knocked him out for the rest of the season and had him briefly considering retirement. If I'm not mistaken, the defense was still in good shape to challenge for the #1 spot in scoring defense again before he went down. Obviously they missed his physical presence, but I think it was pretty apparent that they missed his on-field leadership too.

If, hypothetically, Wilson hadn't been playing hurt/limited for almost the entire season, Thomas hadn't gotten hurt badly enough to miss the rest of the season, but every other injury situation played out the same, I think the Hawks could have nailed down that 2-seed and we'd be looking a whole new set of circumstances this week. That's how important I think those two particular players are to how well this team plays. I think getting them back next year fully healthy (something that isn't a certainty with Thomas, but should be with Wilson barring something unforeseen in the offseason) and keeping them that way will go a long way towards preventing any further regression. The Hawks have survived injuries to many important players in the last five years, but they finally found the two injuries they couldn't overcome this year. The core guys are getting older, sure, but they're also all still in their primes, so if they do regress as a team, that won't be the reason for it.

This team won 10 games and advanced to the second round of the playoffs despite all these significant injuries. If the football gods can ease up on the injury front next year, I see no reason why this team should regress. I remember when this team went from being a playoff team in the late 80's to a 2-win team in 1992. You want to talk regression? That was regression. More recently, I remember the Hawks going to the Super Bowl after the 2005 season and finishing with just four wins just three years later. To lose a divisional round game three years after winning the Super Bowl and two years after making a second consecutive appearance in the Super Bowl all while dealing with injuries all over the roster including to the quarterback and our last line of defense is technically regression, but take a guess which instances of regression were more difficult to deal with as a fan. Hint: It's not this one. It's not like they went into Atlanta at full strength and got their butts kicked.

 

[WizardHawk]

Doubt we could poach any of those head coaches, but I'm sure there's a ton of coordinators that might bring something fresh to the table. Look, I don't want Pete to go, but if being loyal to your coordinators trumps the betterment of the team, I choose the team.

Asking people to agree it is time to let Pete go requires you also believe those random coordinators you speak of succeed at a higher level than Pete is right now. That's a very tall order. It happens rarely, if ever. There is far more risk in that than sticking with a proven coach.

What I take from that is you know more about where the detriment to the team is than RS and PC do and want their heads if they continue to fail to see things your way. Good news is you aren't alone. There are plenty of people to commiserate with up on this site and probably around town at various water coolers. The bad news is you really don't find inside football people that agree and clearly Carroll/Schneider don't so I'm afraid you will have to make your best picket signs and head to the VMAC next fall.

 

[chf]

Yes, his philosophy worked when we had a historically good defense. The defense we have now is not what it once was and cant keep us in games when the offense lays an egg as it has for so many times. This team needs to score more points to be successful. Did anybody really feel good about this team when -

12 points at home vs Miami

3 points at Los Angeles.

13 points at New Orleans, against one of the league's worst defenses.

6 points at Arizona.

5 points at Tampa Bay.

10 points at Green Bay.

Lets face it, the defense is still pretty good, but nothing close to dominant. The offense needs serious help and Pete's not exactly a great offensive minded coach. Bevell isn't the help that's needed.



AFC - Patriots, Steelers, Raiders, Chiefs
NFC - Dallas, Falcons, Packers, Giants

Doubt we could poach any of those head coaches, but I'm sure there's a ton of coordinators that might bring something fresh to the table. Look, I don't want Pete to go, but if being loyal to your coordinators trumps the betterment of the team, I choose the team.



Well they aren't getting any younger are they? Kam has been hurt a good bit, Bennett was hurt this year (should have never have resigned him and used the money on the line), and now Thomas is going to be coming back from a broken leg.



I just don't see things improving if the team stays on this same course. They will win the West again by default, win their home playoff game (maybe), and then lose immediately on the road. Some might be content with that, but I'm not. Heck if the Patriots got ousted in the 2nd round, their fans would consider that season a failure.

And what trait do most long term successful NFL teams share?

 

[MrS]

the offense actually scored 3 points against tampa.

Asking people to agree it is time to let Pete go requires you also believe those random coordinators you speak of succeed at a higher level than Pete is right now. That's a very tall order. It happens rarely, if ever. There is far more risk in that than sticking with a proven coach.

What I take from that is you know more about where the detriment to the team is than RS and PC do and want their heads if they continue to fail to see things your way. Good news is you aren't alone. There are plenty of people to commiserate with up on this site and probably around town at various water coolers. The bad news is you really don't find inside football people that agree and clearly Carroll/Schneider don't so I'm afraid you will have to make your best picket signs and head to the VMAC next fall.

lets do a hypothetical here.

if the offense stays the same and continues to be bottom rung in OL, third down, and redzone scoring and the team continues to win less games every year, at what point do we say enough is enough and call for caroll to be fired if he wont change the offense?

if we go 8-8 next year and miss the playoffs? what if we end up 7-9 the year after?

if nothing changes on offense, that is where our team is headed. yes the defense has gotten worse, but you would think with a $22m QB at the helm our offense would improve as the D declines. but it hasnt, it has gotten worse.

the people running the O simply dont have what it takes to be elite, they just dont. they did things with a HoF RB in lynch and a flash in the pan offense that caught the rest of the league off guard that anyone could have achieved. now that those things are gone, the offense is exposed.

 

[WizardHawk]

the offense actually scored 3 points against tampa.



lets do a hypothetical here.

if the offense stays the same and continues to be bottom rung in OL, third down, and redzone scoring and the team continues to win less games every year, at what point do we say enough is enough and call for caroll to be fired if he wont change the offense?

if we go 8-8 next year and miss the playoffs? what if we end up 7-9 the year after?

if nothing changes on offense, that is where our team is headed. yes the defense has gotten worse, but you would think with a $22m QB at the helm our offense would improve as the D declines. but it hasnt, it has gotten worse.

the people running the O simply dont have what it takes to be elite, they just dont. they did things with a HoF RB in lynch and a flash in the pan offense that caught the rest of the league off guard that anyone could have achieved. now that those things are gone, the offense is exposed.

Again, you want to get rid of the only HC to bring a championship to our town, take us to two SB's, has won the division nearly every year, and been to the playoffs for many straight years over YOUR vision of what a quality team should look like.

Of course all of us would like to see a more prolific offense. I'd love to see Wilson unleashed and big offensive plays. But that isn't going to happen, and isn't needed to win championships. This staff has proven that and they aren't the only ones to ever use their formula for winning.

Keep trying to improve that line, add whatever pieces you can find and for gods sake, get rid of Kearse.

BUT dump Richard and get that killer swagger back on defense and go back to the SB. If you are going to be defense first, fix the problems on the defense so the team can resume where they left off before Richard was named DC.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Again, you want to get rid of the only HC to bring a championship to our town, take us to two SB's, has won the division nearly every year, and been to the playoffs for many straight years over YOUR vision of what a quality team should look like.

Of course all of us would like to see a more prolific offense. I'd love to see Wilson unleashed and big offensive plays. But that isn't going to happen, and isn't needed to win championships. This staff has proven that and they aren't the only ones to ever use their formula for winning.

Keep trying to improve that line, add whatever pieces you can find and for gods sake, get rid of Kearse.

BUT dump Richard and get that killer swagger back on defense and go back to the SB. If you are going to be defense first, fix the problems on the defense so the team can resume where they left off before Richard was named DC.

Not to sure getting rid of Richards is the solution. Corner Back play opposite Sherman was sub par. Sherman was beaten often this season, teams or at least some had no fear of going right at him this season. This wasn't one of Thomas better seasons IMO either. Need to restock the secondary and actually make everyone compete for their jobs, regardless of rep or $ they make.

 

[chf]

the offense actually scored 3 points against tampa.



lets do a hypothetical here.

if the offense stays the same and continues to be bottom rung in OL, third down, and redzone scoring and the team continues to win less games every year, at what point do we say enough is enough and call for caroll to be fired if he wont change the offense?

if we go 8-8 next year and miss the playoffs? what if we end up 7-9 the year after?

if nothing changes on offense, that is where our team is headed. yes the defense has gotten worse, but you would think with a $22m QB at the helm our offense would improve as the D declines. but it hasnt, it has gotten worse.

the people running the O simply dont have what it takes to be elite, they just dont. they did things with a HoF RB in lynch and a flash in the pan offense that caught the rest of the league off guard that anyone could have achieved. now that those things are gone, the offense is exposed.

Well I give you marks for finally admitting that if the foundation is as creaky as you think, then Carroll is the guy responsible.

 

[WizardHawk]

Not to sure getting rid of Richards is the solution. Corner Back play opposite Sherman was sub par. Sherman was beaten often this season, teams or at least some had no fear of going right at him this season. This wasn't one of Thomas better seasons IMO either. Need to restock the secondary and actually make everyone compete for their jobs, regardless of rep or $ they make.

Corner opposite Sherman has always been the point of attack for offenses. For sure I'd upgrade Lane if we can and always look to upgrade Shead if at all possible, but not as easy to do as to say.

I still contend the defense changed tone and performance when Richard took over and hasn't improved under his watch. Not at any point. I would upgrade that position if I could given the defense is the center of this team.

The point was making a change at DC would be FAR more productive than making one at OC. If you must make a change at either, upgrading Richard would be a much bigger potential boost to this team.

There are too many in our base that falsely want to make both units 50/50 in responsibility and then blame the offense for not meeting it. You are not paying attention to what this team is about if that is your mindset and if it must reach that level you are better off switching teams because it isn't going to happen with Carroll here.

This team is defense first. PERIOD. And the importance is MUCH MUCH higher on their list. You are NEVER EVER going to have the balance you seek under this staff. AND IT ISN'T REQUIRED TO WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS. Teams that are defensive orientated tend to be more consistent than those that are offensive minded. It is a better recipe for long term consistent success.

As long as their is a salary cap you only have so much resources and need to prioritize where you will spend them. This team has decided to spend the lions share on defense. The fans that want to keep harping on the offense need to learn something about this sport and why this team does what it does so they can stop looking like fools.

Seattle spends about $53m on offense and $76m on defense. There is no universe in which that disparity produces 50/50 of the work load and expectation.

 

[MrS]

Well I give you marks for finally admitting that if the foundation is as creaky as you think, then Carroll is the guy responsible.

Im not advocating it, but the homer concensus seems to be that our offense should continue to be garbage no matter what and that all losses should be blamed on the D and no attempts should be made to improve the offense.

So in your mind,at what point do YOU demanf carroll be fired?

 

[MrS]

The point was making a change at DC would be FAR more productive than making one at OC.

Scoring more TDs in the redzone would have made a much bigger difference, so how do you explain our pathetic redzone D? Is it lack of personel? Is it the defenses fault? Are they intentionally failing and prefer FGs?

Whats the problem?

 

[WizardHawk]

Scoring more TDs in the redzone would have made a much bigger difference, so how do you explain our pathetic redzone D? Is it lack of personel? Is it the defenses fault? Are they intentionally failing and prefer FGs?

Whats the problem?

You ask about our redzone production and then skip to redzone D and then seem to jump all around. Ask a cohesive question and I'd be happy to answer it. Are you asking questions about the offense or defense? Start there. Both had redzone issues this year.

 

[chf]

Im not advocating it, but the homer concensus seems to be that our offense should continue to be garbage no matter what and that all losses should be blamed on the D and no attempts should be made to improve the offense.

So in your mind,at what point do YOU demanf carroll be fired?

When the team craters and Carroll loses the room?

 

[MrS]

Should have been redzone O, not D.

Point is, our major offensive weakness under bevell has always been our redzone offense. Why is that?

Presumably that is why we went and got graham, and had no improvement.

I heard a stat on kjr a few days ago. One pass to graham inside the 10 yard line ALL YEAR.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I still contend the defense changed tone and performance when Richard took over and hasn't improved under his watch. Not at any point. I would upgrade that position if I could given the defense is the center of this team.

I'm not thrilled with Richard, but I'm not at the panic mode with him yet like I am with Bevell. We still had like the 3rd best D in the league and I'm convinced it would be even better if they weren't on the field 90% of the time some games.

The point was making a change at DC would be FAR more productive than making one at OC. If you must make a change at either, upgrading Richard would be a much bigger potential boost to this team.

Disagree wholeheartedly. The defense is still good, not great, but good. The offense is average to flat out horrible at times. Its almost common place for the offense to take quarters and even entire halfs off. Even with the bad line, there is just no reason for that with the talent we have.

There are too many in our base that falsely want to make both units 50/50 in responsibility and then blame the offense for not meeting it. You are not paying attention to what this team is about if that is your mindset and if it must reach that level you are better off switching teams because it isn't going to happen with Carroll here.

This team is defense first. PERIOD. And the importance is MUCH MUCH higher on their list. You are NEVER EVER going to have the balance you seek under this staff. AND IT ISN'T REQUIRED TO WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS. Teams that are defensive orientated tend to be more consistent than those that are offensive minded. It is a better recipe for long term consistent success.

This is the exact reason why I said a shakeup might be in need. With the players we have now and the schemes we use, the defense first philosophy isn't working. Why cant we have or wish for a better offense? There is definitely room for improvement there. You state that the team will never have a balance under this staff, doesn't that seem like a problem to you? The team is sliding. We are now a Wildcard team instead of an elite team. We are the team that the elite teams beat now.

 

[MrS]

This is the exact reason why I said a shakeup might be in need. With the players we have now and the schemes we use, the defense first philosophy isn't working. Why cant we have or wish for a better offense? There is definitely room for improvement there. You state that the team will never have a balance under this staff, doesn't that seem like a problem to you? The team is sliding. We are now a Wildcard team instead of an elite team. We are the team that the elite teams beat now.

we are apparently supposed to just accept having a bottom rung offense, despite having a $22m QB. so all our losing is really on our D because thats the strength of the team.

honestly, if that is how the front office and coaches really feel why waste so much money on wilson and graham? we can easily go get some third rate QB and score 3 points on the road consistently.

or we could fire the entire offensive coaching staff, bring in some coaches that have run decent offenses in the past, and see what happens. it really could not get any worse.