Seahawks struggling with Browns

[dtgold88]

That, the roughing on Wilson, official crew not in place at the right time, the OBJ catch where one foot was down and his head landed out of bounds, phantom DPI against Cleveland... again, one of the worst officiated games I've ever seen. End of day Seattle was on the benefit side of that shit show, but it sours a victory (as close as it was) when that happens.

DT, what are your thoughts on Mayfield? He's looked horrible all year. Did defenses figure him out?

On the OBJ catch I know he got one foot in. Then he landed on the DB who was in bounds before he slid out. I don't know what the rule should be in that situation. I would think landing on a guy who is in bounds makes you in, but not sure.

Guess the roughing on Wilson a new rule? That horse collar now goes below the neck to his name on back of jersey? If so, bad rule.

As for Baker, again his WR/RBs did him no favors, but he is certainly not without his issues. He did lead one potential GW drive. Not his fault the D couldn't stop Wilson nor that his RB then let a catchable ball go to the Seattle DB. First INT his receivers ran into each other. Landry pass on him, though no reason not to be running on that play to leave Wilson no time left. HAVE to get a FG down there and someone needs to tell him do not snap until 5 secs. or less on clock.

But no doubt Baker needs to shut up until he accomplishes something.

 

[dtgold88]

The Browns are going through some growing pains. Baker needs to improve his accuracy but I think that is more of an issue of the game slowing down for him rather than inherent accuracy issues.

Really does seem like his accuracy has gotten worse this year. That's one are I always believed you had it or didn't.

 

[Pure Steel]

Maybe... he threw SO many bad passes yesterday despite some time. And he needs to stop throwing behind his receivers.

At least he makes great commercials.....

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

On the OBJ catch I know he got one foot in. Then he landed on the DB who was in bounds before he slid out. I don't know what the rule should be in that situation. I would think landing on a guy who is in bounds makes you in, but not sure.

Guess the roughing on Wilson a new rule? That horse collar now goes below the neck to his name on back of jersey? If so, bad rule.

As for Baker, again his WR/RBs did him no favors, but he is certainly not without his issues. He did lead one potential GW drive. Not his fault the D couldn't stop Wilson nor that his RB then let a catchable ball go to the Seattle DB. First INT his receivers ran into each other. Landry pass on him, though no reason not to be running on that play to leave Wilson no time left. HAVE to get a FG down there and someone needs to tell him do not snap until 5 secs. or less on clock.

But no doubt Baker needs to shut up until he accomplishes something.

Maybe you're right on the OBJ catch... but who knows. The announcers/call in ref seemed to think it was accurate, and it was challenged. On Wilson I was talking about the hit on him RIGHT when he released it. I get Wilson is on an MVP track and the best QB in the league right now along with Mahomes, but c'mon....

Mayfield did throw a ton of passes behind receivers though... if he puts the ball accurately on OBJ a few times the Browns probably win.

 

[flyerhawk]

Maybe... he threw SO many bad passes yesterday despite some time. And he needs to stop throwing behind his receivers.

I disagree. I don't think that Mayfield played poorly today. His receivers popped two balls in the air that lead to interceptions. His other pick was due to his receiver getting rubbed out on crosses.

In fairness both of the tip picks were not great throws. But they should have been caught.

He was clearly hurt in the 2nd half and not as effective as he was in the 1st half.

I honestly think that the coaching staff lost them that game.

 

[flyerhawk]

On the OBJ catch I know he got one foot in. Then he landed on the DB who was in bounds before he slid out. I don't know what the rule should be in that situation. I would think landing on a guy who is in bounds makes you in, but not sure.

Two feet, one knee or elbow. That's the rule. My guess is that they just didn't see enough to overturn and thought his elbow touched. I'm not sure but SundayTicket streaming was completely borked yesterday in the 1st half.

Guess the roughing on Wilson a new rule? That horse collar now goes below the neck to his name on back of jersey? If so, bad rule.

The announcers said that the rule was changed to lower the area of the horse collar.

As for Baker, again his WR/RBs did him no favors, but he is certainly not without his issues. He did lead one potential GW drive. Not his fault the D couldn't stop Wilson nor that his RB then let a catchable ball go to the Seattle DB. First INT his receivers ran into each other. Landry pass on him, though no reason not to be running on that play to leave Wilson no time left. HAVE to get a FG down there and someone needs to tell him do not snap until 5 secs. or less on clock.

Yeah, I don't put this loss on Baker.

But no doubt Baker needs to shut up until he accomplishes something.

Definitely agree with that. Brash is fine if you're winning.

 

[dtgold88]

Two feet, one knee or elbow. That's the rule. My guess is that they just didn't see enough to overturn and thought his elbow touched. I'm not sure but SundayTicket streaming was completely borked yesterday in the 1st half.



The announcers said that the rule was changed to lower the area of the horse collar.



Yeah, I don't put this loss on Baker.



Definitely agree with that. Brash is fine if you're winning.

As to your first comment, though, pretty sure if you land on a guy in the middle of the field you are counted in even if you never touch in bounds with foot, elbow, etc.

I get the horsecollar rule, but lowering that is absurd. Cannot really imagine pulling a guy down by top of shirt is all that dangerous.

 

[dtgold88]

Andre Weingarten@Moonlightswami
https://twitter.com/Moonlightswami/status/1183482488984866816

Worst QB Turnover luck (amount of INTs versus Turnover worthy passes)

1. Baker Mayfield (+5)
2. Russell Wilson (+1)
3. Jimmy G (+1)

No one else with more INTs than TWP.


Just sayin'.

 

[flyerhawk]

As to your first comment, though, pretty sure if you land on a guy in the middle of the field you are counted in even if you never touch in bounds with foot, elbow, etc.

Nope. Just like you aren't down until you touch the ground, the same applies to catches.

I get the horsecollar rule, but lowering that is absurd. Cannot really imagine pulling a guy down by top of shirt is all that dangerous.

Pretty easy way to cause lower leg injuries. Not sure why grabbing the pads would be more likely to induce an injury.

 

[flyerhawk]

Andre Weingarten@Moonlightswami

Worst QB Turnover luck (amount of INTs versus Turnover worthy passes)

1. Baker Mayfield (+5)
2. Russell Wilson (+1)
3. Jimmy G (+1)

No one else with more INTs than TWP.


Just sayin'.

I don't understand what this stat is saying.

 

[dtgold88]

Nope. Just like you aren't down until you touch the ground, the same applies to catches.



Pretty easy way to cause lower leg injuries. Not sure why grabbing the pads would be more likely to induce an injury.

wait a minute....you are saying if a guy makes a catch in middle of the field and lands on the defender (never touching the ground), defender is holding him but WR on top of him and not going anywhere it's no catch? come on. They would call it catch and play dead.

 

[dtgold88]

I don't understand what this stat is saying.

Pretty much means Baker has thrown 5 more INTs than he should have based on ALL passes. A dropped INT counts as an INT worthy pass. However, a pass his player should catch that turns into an INT would not count as one.

Means Wilson has thrown 1 pass all year that should have been picked. Amazing.

 

[GNG]

rather be a weak 5-1 team than a strong 3-3 team anyday.

The Cowboys aren't a strong 3-3 team.

 

[GNG]

Lol... that is sad. Personally I think the rams will finish 2nd and seattle 3rd in nfc west

The Niners look like the real deal.

 

[Shanemansj13]

That, the roughing on Wilson, official crew not in place at the right time, the OBJ catch where one foot was down and his head landed out of bounds, phantom DPI against Cleveland... again, one of the worst officiated games I've ever seen. End of day Seattle was on the benefit side of that shit show, but it sours a victory (as close as it was) when that happens.

DT, what are your thoughts on Mayfield? He's looked horrible all year. Did defenses figure him out?

All I have got to say is one of the worst officiated games I have ever seen.

The OBJ catch his elbow was in bounds though, only could see from one angle.

But it is strange, the last two years the Browns have been in so many of these games, just atrocious officiating...but this is all around the league. It's getting worse every year.
I can't watch the NFL anymore. I will of course watch Browns games bc I can't help it but I can't continue to put my time, effort and money into a game that has transformed into flag football with pads.

 

[Shanemansj13]

On the OBJ catch I know he got one foot in. Then he landed on the DB who was in bounds before he slid out. I don't know what the rule should be in that situation. I would think landing on a guy who is in bounds makes you in, but not sure.

Guess the roughing on Wilson a new rule? That horse collar now goes below the neck to his name on back of jersey? If so, bad rule.

As for Baker, again his WR/RBs did him no favors, but he is certainly not without his issues. He did lead one potential GW drive. Not his fault the D couldn't stop Wilson nor that his RB then let a catchable ball go to the Seattle DB. First INT his receivers ran into each other. Landry pass on him, though no reason not to be running on that play to leave Wilson no time left. HAVE to get a FG down there and someone needs to tell him do not snap until 5 secs. or less on clock.

But no doubt Baker needs to shut up until he accomplishes something.

The announcers even said they have never seen a horse collar penalty called inside the pocket, but I have never seen a horse collar, wear a player grabs his jersey on his upper back, like that called.
Then that first play on Cleveland's last drive they called holding, where the guy had his hands inside his pads and I knew the game was over.

Cleveland made mistakes but a game shouldn't be that poorly officiated where you have to question: a) are the refs blind? b) how do they keep getting this easy calls wrong? c) why should I even watch this sport anymore? d) is this flag football?

The WR's were awful again...he wasn't throwing the most accurate balls but I saw 4-5 drops on very catchable balls. His only pick that wasn't his fault was the endzone pick to Landry

 

[The Oldtimer]

Maybe you're right on the OBJ catch... but who knows. The announcers/call in ref seemed to think it was accurate, and it was challenged. On Wilson I was talking about the hit on him RIGHT when he released it. I get Wilson is on an MVP track and the best QB in the league right now along with Mahomes, but c'mon....

Mayfield did throw a ton of passes behind receivers though... if he puts the ball accurately on OBJ a few times the Browns probably win.

If you watch the replay again on the OBJ's catch on the side line, one foot ahd his left elbow hit the ground before he went out of bounds. At least that is what I saw.

 

[flyerhawk]

wait a minute....you are saying if a guy makes a catch in middle of the field and lands on the defender (never touching the ground), defender is holding him but WR on top of him and not going anywhere it's no catch? come on. They would call it catch and play dead.

Well there are some mitigating situations. If both players stop playing, the ball is ruled dead and it is a completion.

If your argument was how the ruling worked then if a defender hit a receiver before they touched the ground knocked them out of play before they established their feet, it would be a catch because the defender was on the ground and in bounds when they contacted the receiver. And what happens if the defender is touching out of bounds and tackles the receiver?

https://operations.nfl.com/media/3831/2019-playing-rules.pdf

To gain possession of a loose ball that has been caught, intercepted, or recovered, a player (a) must have complete control of the ball with his hands or arms and (b) have both feet or any other part of his body, other than his hands, completely on the ground inbounds, and,after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, perform any act common to the game (e.g., tuck the ball away, extend it forward, take an additional step, turn upfield, or avoid or ward off an opponent). It is not necessary that he commit suchanact, provided that he maintains control of the ball long enough to do so.This rule applies in the field of play, at the sideline,and in the end zone

 

[flyerhawk]

Pretty much means Baker has thrown 5 more INTs than he should have based on ALL passes. A dropped INT counts as an INT worthy pass. However, a pass his player should catch that turns into an INT would not count as one.

Means Wilson has thrown 1 pass all year that should have been picked. Amazing.

Ah ok. That makes sense. Mayfield definitely has been let down by his receivers.

 

[kcden]

wait a minute....you are saying if a guy makes a catch in middle of the field and lands on the defender (never touching the ground), defender is holding him but WR on top of him and not going anywhere it's no catch? come on. They would call it catch and play dead.

That situation is more applicable to a fumble (if the offensive player is on-top of a defender on the ground, the play is not blown dead for forward progress and the ball is knocked out, it is a fumble because the player was never down).
The OBJ situation yesterday is more like a force-out: Player goes up and gets the ball, gets a foot down well in-bounds but a defender knocks him OB before anything else lands in-bounds. I didn't see anything on OBJ hit in-bounds (other than his initial foot) that wasn't simultaneously hitting out-of-bounds on any replay yesterday.