Seahawks coaching options

[dkmightyhammer]

I would be pretty happy with that.

me too.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Getting to a SB isn't a failure but the FO didn't do anything to have a possible QoF in place when Matt Ryan's skills were declining. I don't think it would be Pete v2 cause I believe he would the OC run his style of offense. If not Quinn then I'm good with the Ravens DC as our HC.

I'm not totally against a defensive coach fwiw. I just don't think Quinn is any more than a coordinator and never will be. There's nothing wrong with that either. Steve Spagnolo is a great DC but failed as a HC and knows it. Jim Schwartz is another that is a much better DC than HC. Fangio, Buddy Ryan, Ron Rivera, Jeff Fisher, the list is long. It's the same for OCs. I'm not necessarily all that sold on Bobby Slowik as the next great one. He's okay but I doubt he's ready to be a HC. Josh McDaniel is/was a good OC but was absolute ass as a HC. Mike Martz another. Dan Quinn has shown nothing to indicate he can be a better coach than Pete Carroll was the last half decade. So I guess we will just agree to disagree on the subject, Jersey.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

ESPN’s Dan Graziano predicts Mike Vrabel as Seahawks’ next head coach​

ESPN’s Dan Graziano has an interesting prediction for next Seahawks head coach

The ex-Titans HC isn’t even on the Seahawks’ public list of candidates but why let that stop them?

www.fieldgulls.com

Kind of strange the media is putting this out yet he's not even on Seahawks interview list and is interviewing with the Chargers.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Kind of strange the media is putting this out yet he's not even on Seahawks interview list and is interviewing with the Chargers.

Graziano admits that, and he says what it comes down to is a hunch that he (and a couple others) have about Vrabel and the Seahawks.

"I know, he hasn’t even shown up on the Seahawks’ interview list yet. And sure, (Dan) Quinn has a connection to Seattle from his time as its defensive coordinator under (Pete) Carroll. The Vrabel thing is a bit of a hunch, though I do have several sources who share the same hunch and the idea that he could be a sneaky late entry into this pool.

It’s almost certainly a coincidence that the Carroll news broke the day after the news that the Titans had fired Vrabel. But it’s also possible that the opportunity the current high-level candidate list offers is part of the reason Seattle decided now was the time to make a change."

 

[MrS]

Graziano admits that, and he says what it comes down to is a hunch that he (and a couple others) have about Vrabel and the Seahawks.

"I know, he hasn’t even shown up on the Seahawks’ interview list yet. And sure, (Dan) Quinn has a connection to Seattle from his time as its defensive coordinator under (Pete) Carroll. The Vrabel thing is a bit of a hunch, though I do have several sources who share the same hunch and the idea that he could be a sneaky late entry into this pool.

It’s almost certainly a coincidence that the Carroll news broke the day after the news that the Titans had fired Vrabel. But it’s also possible that the opportunity the current high-level candidate list offers is part of the reason Seattle decided now was the time to make a change."

its on par with "trump lunged for the steering wheel".

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I would be pretty happy with that.

Seems to have a similar philosophy to Pete. Run heavy to help the D then long downfield passes, course he had the right players for that style with Henry and AJ Brown. Arthur Smith who went on to become HC for Falcons was his OC during Vrabel most successful seasons and he's available to be a OC again.
I'm just not that excited by the idea of Vrabel being the HC. He does hit the "leader of men" theme though.

 

[Anointed One]

ESPN’s Dan Graziano predicts Mike Vrabel as Seahawks’ next head coach​

ESPN’s Dan Graziano has an interesting prediction for next Seahawks head coach

The ex-Titans HC isn’t even on the Seahawks’ public list of candidates but why let that stop them?

www.fieldgulls.com

He's my choice... I'd be very happy if Vrabel is the hire

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

I'm not totally against a defensive coach fwiw. I just don't think Quinn is any more than a coordinator and never will be. There's nothing wrong with that either. Steve Spagnolo is a great DC but failed as a HC and knows it. Jim Schwartz is another that is a much better DC than HC. Fangio, Buddy Ryan, Ron Rivera, Jeff Fisher, the list is long. It's the same for OCs. I'm not necessarily all that sold on Bobby Slowik as the next great one. He's okay but I doubt he's ready to be a HC. Josh McDaniel is/was a good OC but was absolute ass as a HC. Mike Martz another. Dan Quinn has shown nothing to indicate he can be a better coach than Pete Carroll was the last half decade. So I guess we will just agree to disagree on the subject, Jersey.

So who do we hire that's on Pete's level?

 

[MrS]

I'm just not that excited by the idea of Vrabel being the HC. He does hit the "leader of men" theme though.

Im with you on that. Better than quinn but still a retread that doesnt excite me.

 

[flyerhawk]

Seems to have a similar philosophy to Pete. Run heavy to help the D then long downfield passes, course he had the right players for that style with Henry and AJ Brown. Arthur Smith who went on to become HC for Falcons was his OC during Vrabel most successful seasons and he's available to be a OC again.
I'm just not that excited by the idea of Vrabel being the HC. He does hit the "leader of men" theme though.

I guess it's all about the excitement of the unknown versus the safety of an experienced choice.

I won't be upset with Johnson or Slowik or Canales or Macdonald but there is definitely more risk with someone who has never been an HC

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I guess it's all about the excitement of the unknown versus the safety of an experienced choice.

I won't be upset with Johnson or Slowik or Canales or Macdonald but there is definitely more risk with someone who has never been an HC

Pete had a good record and it appeared he had a good working relationship with JS, yet too many seasons of being a fringe playoff team did him in.
Not really convinced a someone with solid but not great track record (otherwise they would be employed as HC presently) is what the Seahawks are looking for. I feel they want to be real contenders and are seeking a higher ceiling then what Pete offered, don't think Quinn or Vrabel offer that. In fact it doesn't appear that Vrabel is being considered, seeing how he's unemployed and a interview could of happened already, yet he's not on the list even. These media guesses seem to happen once the Pats let out that Mayo was the next HC and I've heard it said the source for these rumors of Vrabel and the Seahawks is Vrabel agent pulling in some chips for his guy.
Harbaugh seem headed to the Chargers, BB to the Falcons, Washington is all gaga about Johnson and the Carolina position is more like if all else fails kind of choice. Thus the rumors of Vrabel to Seattle.
I won't hate the hire of Vrabel at all, I just see options with higher ceilings that can help with developing a rookie into a franchise QB, install a more modern offense that we keep seeing when the Seahawks play the Rams or 49ers. Vrabel is more old school in the same vein as Pete, which is fine actually but think this time the Seahawks go with something more modern with their choice at HC and I'd like to see that myself. Kind of surprising that with all the grumbling about Pete's offense being outdated some folks suddenly decide that kind of offense is fine now that Pete is gone.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Waiting on Ben Johnson could end up narrowing the list for Seahawks.

 

[Jikkle]

I feel like I've heard this argument a lot this offseason. I kinda get it but ultimately if you hire an OC that is that good and he gets poached, you should be able to get one of the other assistant coaches and elevate them up to run the same system. IF you have a strong foundation at the top.

Some guys on staff make for superb position coaches but terrible coordinators and no matter how strong your foundation eventually it'll get poached enough you'll just run out of talent.

Keep in mind when you lose an OC to be a HC they usually take a number of assistants with them so that further strains the talent pool you're trying to cultivate.

That's why the recipe for sustained success in the NFL is to get an HC that's a strong playcaller and pair them up with a franchise QB. You look a the teams with this duo and they usually are consistently good even if some seasons or better than others.

The other element that hasn't really been talked about is it's easier for a strong offensive coach to attract talented defensive coaches. If you're a defensive coach you want to be on a team with a strong offense because it makes you look better as it's easier to call a defense with leads than it is from behind. In general offensive head coaches are more likely to give their defensive coordinator freedom whereas defensive head coaches tend to be a little more reserved and are more likely to want to reign in their offensive coordinator.

 

[Jikkle]

Which means they were up 28-3 in the Super Bowl. Shanahan refusing to run the ball in the 2nd half was their problem.

This has always been one of the most baffling narratives in the NFL to me.

Don't get me wrong Shanahan isn't absolved of blame here but how Shanahan not running the ball gets talked about more than Quinn and the defense having a complete meltdown is beyond me.

The Pats scored 19 points in the 4th quarter and yeah one TD came from a short field from a fumble but all you needed to do is stop them once. Heck just limiting one of those drives to a FG probably wins you the game. Not to mention just stopping one of the 2 pt conversions the Pats needed in that game to tie it.

If you took any game and said yeah they were up 28-9 going into the 4th quarter and said they lost in OT your first response is going to be "man the defense really screwed that one up"

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

So who do we hire that's on Pete's level?

I don't want Pete's level. That was my point. The last 5-6 years have been not good. I want to see a real change and be able to compete against Shanahan and McVay. The team will do nothing if we can't beat the better coaches in our division. I'm not sure who that is but it sure as hell isn't Quinn.

 

[flyerhawk]

Pete had a good record and it appeared he had a good working relationship with JS, yet too many seasons of being a fringe playoff team did him in.
Not really convinced a someone with solid but not great track record (otherwise they would be employed as HC presently) is what the Seahawks are looking for. I feel they want to be real contenders and are seeking a higher ceiling then what Pete offered, don't think Quinn or Vrabel offer that. In fact it doesn't appear that Vrabel is being considered, seeing how he's unemployed and a interview could of happened already, yet he's not on the list even. These media guesses seem to happen once the Pats let out that Mayo was the next HC and I've heard it said the source for these rumors of Vrabel and the Seahawks is Vrabel agent pulling in some chips for his guy.
Harbaugh seem headed to the Chargers, BB to the Falcons, Washington is all gaga about Johnson and the Carolina position is more like if all else fails kind of choice. Thus the rumors of Vrabel to Seattle.
I won't hate the hire of Vrabel at all, I just see options with higher ceilings that can help with developing a rookie into a franchise QB, install a more modern offense that we keep seeing when the Seahawks play the Rams or 49ers. Vrabel is more old school in the same vein as Pete, which is fine actually but think this time the Seahawks go with something more modern with their choice at HC and I'd like to see that myself. Kind of surprising that with all the grumbling about Pete's offense being outdated some folks suddenly decide that kind of offense is fine now that Pete is gone.

Vrabel isn't the X's and O's guy. He's more of leader of the team than a play caller. Which is true of a lot of the great coaches. If we were to hire someone like Vrabel then I would expect JS and Vrabel to work together to get the best OC and DC they can.

My biggest issue with the Seahawk offense was the seeming unwillingness to developer things like consistent seam routes and screens. Multiple OCs, multiple QBs, and the same problem. Maybe Russ and Geno were specifically unwilling/incapable of throwing to the short middle but I doubt it.

 

[flyerhawk]

Some guys on staff make for superb position coaches but terrible coordinators and no matter how strong your foundation eventually it'll get poached enough you'll just run out of talent.

Keep in mind when you lose an OC to be a HC they usually take a number of assistants with them so that further strains the talent pool you're trying to cultivate.

That's why the recipe for sustained success in the NFL is to get an HC that's a strong playcaller and pair them up with a franchise QB. You look a the teams with this duo and they usually are consistently good even if some seasons or better than others.

The other element that hasn't really been talked about is it's easier for a strong offensive coach to attract talented defensive coaches. If you're a defensive coach you want to be on a team with a strong offense because it makes you look better as it's easier to call a defense with leads than it is from behind. In general offensive head coaches are more likely to give their defensive coordinator freedom whereas defensive head coaches tend to be a little more reserved and are more likely to want to reign in their offensive coordinator.

Certainly having a franchise QB makes things a heck of a lot easier. Having Pat Mahomes definitely makes things vastly easier than Geno Smith.

But I guess I would need to know how we are defining sustained success. Which teams have had sustained success for more than one cycle? The Ravens? The Bills? The Steelers? They all have defensive head coaches.

Ultimately, my view is teams that have success do so because they pick the person who most capable of being a good head coach.

Maybe that's Ben Johnson or Bobby Slowik. I really don't know. But if JS picks one of them or Macdonald or Vrabel or Canales I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and go with it. I'm on the fence with Quinn, in large part because I think he would be too much of a continuity of the same thing.

 

[flyerhawk]

This has always been one of the most baffling narratives in the NFL to me.

Don't get me wrong Shanahan isn't absolved of blame here but how Shanahan not running the ball gets talked about more than Quinn and the defense having a complete meltdown is beyond me.

The Pats scored 19 points in the 4th quarter and yeah one TD came from a short field from a fumble but all you needed to do is stop them once. Heck just limiting one of those drives to a FG probably wins you the game. Not to mention just stopping one of the 2 pt conversions the Pats needed in that game to tie it.

If you took any game and said yeah they were up 28-9 going into the 4th quarter and said they lost in OT your first response is going to be "man the defense really screwed that one up"

Not sure what is baffling about it. No question that the defense fell apart. The offense got one 1st down from the point it was 28-3. They had one drive in the 2nd half that lasted more than 2 and a half minutes.

 

[JMR]

Vrabel isn't the X's and O's guy. He's more of leader of the team than a play caller. Which is true of a lot of the great coaches. If we were to hire someone like Vrabel then I would expect JS and Vrabel to work together to get the best OC and DC they can.

I'm not jazzed about putting in a 30-something 1 or 2 year coordinator as the HC. I would much rather hire Vrabel (or Quinn as a 2nd choice) and then if one of those youngsters really impresses during the interviews, try to hire them away for the same job here but with an added title (e.g. asst head coach) to make it a promotion on paper. Best of both worlds for me.

 

[HaroldSeattle]