Schotty fired

[Screamin12th]

Yeah. Lots of speculation out there on how much Pete is controlling the play calling.
We certainly saw a sudden shift in the gameplanning after Russ threw a few picks. The reversion to low risk offense was obvious and not successful.

I defended PC and his overall system in the Season thread but I won't defend him on this point. The offense was doing well until he forced a philosophical switch. I don't know why he couldn't see it wasn't working and adjust back towards a more "open" offense at some point.

I guess the question in my mind is this:
Did Pete believe that the offensive philosophy somehow negatively affect the defense's performance? Or was it just stubborness to revert back to what he was comfortable with, regardless of reason? Because I feel that early offense was more successful despite a few more turnovers. Also, was Russ' regression in the 2nd half predicated on the change in philosophy, or was it solely poor (by comparison) individual performance?

Teams adjusted to our offense which MADE Wilson have bad games so the Hawks tried to adjust, lets not be unclear here. They Started to play 2 high safety and Russell's play went in the garbage. It Stayed their in the passing game ( In the garbage ) we just limited the Turnovers. This is a design flaw with the offense. They needed more RB screens 8-15 yard Curls or crossing routes right behind or between the LBers in soft zones. Nice RPO and roll outs would have helped also in breaking down the 2 high umbrella, Schotty is not the guy to design or head an offense with this much Fire power.

I dont understand how every damn team in the NFL can attack a Zone defense and pick them a part like they are in Prevent but not the Hawks. This offense we have or HAD is shit and Schottys offenses has always been shit.

 

[returnofjakedog]

Seattle Seahawks QB Russell Wilson: My involvement in finding next OC is 'critical'

Wilson: “It's critical, super significant obviously that I'm a part of that process."

www.seattlepi.com

Important points:
*Russ doesn't agree with the decision to let go. But he does specifically defer to PC in this decision.
*He believes that his involvement in hiring the next OC is critical.
Now you would think that this would go without saying but I don't know how much, if any, say Russ had in the Schotty firing but it is wholly obvious that he didn't have final say.

Hopefully this isn't a sign of internal dissension between Russ and PC. I always assumed that Russ had input with PC but now I'm not sure of how much say he actually has.

 

[returnofjakedog]

Obviously this is pure speculation but I feel that we were victims of weird timing.

IMO, the defense got dramatically better when we acquired Dunlap, Green came off IR, Adams came back from injury and Dunbar was sat down. But that improvement coincided almost exactly with the offense swallowing the football. So it could appear, if you wanted to believe it, that playing conservative offense improved the defense. I just don't think the evidence supports that.

So if that is the case (and I am inclined to agree with you) then there is even less of an excuse to not shift back in the direction of the early season offensive philosophy. That just comes off as PC being stubborn and failing to adjust because "it worked in past years".

So it appears that we "ride and die" based specifically on that philosophy, regardless of success.

I believe it is more of a critical path in basketball that you need to adjust your philosophies to fit your personal but there is also at least some truth to that in football. I am a bit concerned that PC isn't as capable or open to such adjustments as he should be based on the varying offensive success levels of the season's first and second halfs.

Of course the other explaination is that Russ' personal performance was the issue, and not offensive philosophy. But, despite his 2nd half of the season inconsistencies, I'm not sure that I buy that.

 

[flyerhawk]

So if that is the case (and I am inclined to agree with you) then there is even less of an excuse to not shift back in the direction of the early season offensive philosophy. That just comes off as PC being stubborn and failing to adjust because "it worked in past years".

So it appears that we "ride and die" based specifically on that philosophy, regardless of success.

I believe it is more of a critical path in basketball that you need to adjust your philosophies to fit your personal but there is also at least some truth to that in football. I am a bit concerned that PC isn't as capable or open to such adjustments as he should be based on the varying offensive success levels of the season's first and second halfs.

Of course the other explaination is that Russ' personal performance was the issue, and not offensive philosophy. But, despite his 2nd half of the season inconsistencies, I'm not sure that I buy that.

I'm not putting Russ off the hook completely. But I think that Pete's singular focus on limiting turnovers had an adverse impact on him.

I'm pretty down on our chances for 2021. While I suspect we will win 10-12 games again, I don't think that Pete is willing to run the team the way the personnel really dictates.

 

[returnofjakedog]

Teams adjusted to our offense which MADE Wilson have bad games so the Hawks tried to adjust, lets not be unclear here. They Started to play 2 high safety and Russell's play went in the garbage. It Stayed their in the passing game ( In the garbage ) we just limited the Turnovers. This is a design flaw with the offense. They needed more RB screens 8-15 yard Curls or crossing routes right behind or between the LBers in soft zones. Nice RPO and roll outs would have helped also in breaking down the 2 high umbrella, Schotty is not the guy to design or head an offense with this much Fire power.

I dont understand how every damn team in the NFL can attack a Zone defense and pick them a part like they are in Prevent but not the Hawks. This offense we have or HAD is shit and Schottys offenses has always been shit.

So was it Russ' performance, PC's reversion in philosophy, or Schotty's playcalling that is the culprit?

It seems that you are holding Schotty as holding the most responsibility for the situation. But how much of the playcalling was actually on Schotty and how much is on PC? We assume that Schotty was solely responsible but we do know for a fact that PC at least periodically overrides calls (it was reported as so in the critical call during the Rams game).

I guess my questions are:
*How much control did Pete have of offensive playcalling?
*Did the ratio of that aspect change as the season progressed?
*What does this mean going forward for our next OC?

Does the OC get any actual input on the offensive philosophy in general or is it only to plug someone in, hand them PC's playbook and tell them they have to adhere to it? Because I get the feeling that Schotty had some autonomy in this but that freedom was removed. That concerns me a little going forward.

 

[flyerhawk]

So was it Russ' performance, PC's reversion in philosophy, or Schotty's playcalling that is the culprit?

It seems that you are holding Schotty as holding the most responsibility for the situation. But how much of the playcalling was actually on Schotty and how much is on PC? We assume that Schotty was solely responsible but we do know for a fact that PC at least periodically overrides calls (it was reported as so in the critical call during the Rams game).

I guess my questions are:
*How much control did Pete have of offensive playcalling?
*Did the ratio of that aspect change as the season progressed?
*What does this mean going forward for our next OC?

Does the OC get any actual input on the offensive philosophy in general or is it only to plug someone in, hand them PC's playbook and tell them they have to adhere to it? Because I get the feeling that Schotty had some autonomy in this but that freedom was removed. That concerns me a little going forward.

Supposedly Pete fired Schotty because he didn't run the ball enough. Does anyone REALLY believe that the problem with this team was that it wasn't running the ball enough? Or was the problem that our running game was too often anemic, ESPECIALLY when Carson and Hyde were out, and we would wind up behind?

The Bills game, in particular, I think is illuminating. The defense basically was a turnstile and the Bills scored at will. Even with the 2 picks, the Seahawks offense scored 34 points despite the Bills not turning the ball over. And they could have easily scored 40 if we scored on the 4th and goal that Russ threw the pick on.

Pete may look at that game and say we should have run more(46 drop backs to 17 runs) but that wasn't a real option when the defense was a sieve.

 

[returnofjakedog]

Teams adjusted to our offense which MADE Wilson have bad games so the Hawks tried to adjust, lets not be unclear here. They Started to play 2 high safety and Russell's play went in the garbage. It Stayed their in the passing game ( In the garbage ) we just limited the Turnovers. This is a design flaw with the offense. They needed more RB screens 8-15 yard Curls or crossing routes right behind or between the LBers in soft zones. Nice RPO and roll outs would have helped also in breaking down the 2 high umbrella, Schotty is not the guy to design or head an offense with this much Fire power.

I dont understand how every damn team in the NFL can attack a Zone defense and pick them a part like they are in Prevent but not the Hawks. This offense we have or HAD is shit and Schottys offenses has always been shit.

Specifically to the 2 high safety play killing Russ' performance:
*What could or should happen to offset this? (You already discussed the screens and mid- routes but anything else?)

It seems odd to me that if 2 high safety is Russ' Achilles heel then why has it taken 10 years for the league to figure this out and suddenly apply it? Or was this weakness always hidden by PCs ground heavy offense and only exposed after Russ was allowed to "cook"?

We do know that Russ is more effective off of the play action (as are most QBs) so that aspect supports PC's philosophy as the reason for Russ' success, and not so much vice-versa.

 

[flyerhawk]

Specifically to the 2 high safety play killing Russ' performance:
*What could or should happen to offset this? (You already discussed the screens and mid- routes but anything else?)

It seems odd to me that if 2 high safety is Russ' Achilles heel then why has it taken 10 years for the league to figure this out and suddenly apply it? Or was this weakness always hidden by PCs ground heavy offense and only exposed after Russ was allowed to "cook"?

We do know that Russ is more effective off of the play action (as are most QBs) so that aspect supports PC's philosophy as the reason for Russ' success, and not so much vice-versa.

Yeah I disagree that it is Russ' Achilles Heel. Last year he was 6th in the NFL in EPA/play against 2 deep coverage. He was 8th the year before.

I do think it is possible that Russ was simply unwilling to throw certain routes because Pete was hammering into him that he had to be more careful with the ball.

 

[returnofjakedog]

Yeah I disagree that it is Russ' Achilles Heel. Last year he was 6th in the NFL in EPA/play against 2 deep coverage. He was 8th the year before.

I do think it is possible that Russ was simply unwilling to throw certain routes because Pete was hammering into him that he had to be more careful with the ball.

So just for clarification: your theory is that Russ struggled because of the playcalling, and the playcalling was hindered by Schotty's inability to adjust to PC's midseason philosophical system changes?

If so, then it still speaks on some level of the inability for PC to adjust his system to fit the talents of his personal. Unless you are saying that PC gave Schotty the basic structure to adjust but Schotty was unable to within the confines of those instructions??

I'm trying to clarify if one party bears more responsibility than the other for the regression. Your points all seem valid and well thought out but I am admitably a bit confused on your conclusion.

 

[flyerhawk]

So just for clarification: your theory is that Russ struggled because of the playcalling, and the playcalling was hindered by Schotty's inability to adjust to PC's midseason philosophical system changes?

If so, then it still speaks on some level of the inability for PC to adjust his system to fit the talents of his personal. Unless you are saying that PC gave Schotty the basic structure to adjust but Schotty was unable to within the confines of those instructions??

I'm trying to clarify if one party bears more responsibility than the other for the regression. Your points all seem valid and well thought out but I am admitably a bit confused on your conclusion.

It is my theory that Schotty was given free rein early on the season. When Russ struggled, Pete put the hammer down and told Schotty to adjust his offense to a "safer" approach and told Russ to be "safer" with the ball.

Schotty called the plays but the game plan is established by both Pete and Schotty.

Not sure if you read any of Russ' comments from his presser but it sure doesn't sound like he was too happy with Schotty being fired. And he publicly said that he wants to have input on who the next OC is which may or may not have annoyed Pete.

IMO, I think the team is in its most uncertain phase since Russ got here. Depending on how things go next year, I think it is possible that it will be Pete's last year with the team.

 

[returnofjakedog]

It is my theory that Schotty was given free rein early on the season. When Russ struggled, Pete put the hammer down and told Schotty to adjust his offense to a "safer" approach and told Russ to be "safer" with the ball.

Schotty called the plays but the game plan is established by both Pete and Schotty.

Not sure if you read any of Russ' comments from his presser but it sure doesn't sound like he was too happy with Schotty being fired. And he publicly said that he wants to have input on who the next OC is which may or may not have annoyed Pete.

IMO, I think the team is in its most uncertain phase since Russ got here. Depending on how things go next year, I think it is possible that it will be Pete's last year with the team.

Yeah. The article from the PI I posted above echos those points regarding Russ not being happy with Schotty's firing, and I had always assumed that Russ would have some major input on the next hire. But apparently that may (or may not be the case).

This is a possible indication of some internal dissent but not a certainty. Have you heard anything from PC that would indicate any such rift or is it speculation based on Russ' comments?

 

[flyerhawk]

Yeah. The article from the PI I posted above echos those points regarding Russ not being happy with Schotty's firing, and I had always assumed that Russ would have some major input on the next hire. But apparently that may (or may not be the case).

This is a possible indication of some internal dissent but not a certainty. Have you heard anything from PC that would indicate any such rift or is it speculation based on Russ' comments?

Haven't heard anything from PC and I would be very surprised if we did. He isn't going to air dirty laundry and ultimately it's job to make sure his Hall of Fame QB is happy, not Russ' job to keep Pete happy.

 

[returnofjakedog]

Here is a fieldgulls article that discusses the subject. Note the closing comment in regards to speculation over PC and Russ' relationship as they seem to mirror this discussion.

Russell Wilson says it’s ‘super critical’ he’s involved in Seahawks offensive coordinator search

Russell Wilson has enjoyed a level of offensive coordinator stability not afforded to most other quarterbacks. Through nine seasons with the Seattle Seahawks, Darrell Bevell and Brian...

www.fieldgulls.com

 

[Screamin12th]

Specifically to the 2 high safety play killing Russ' performance:
*What could or should happen to offset this? (You already discussed the screens and mid- routes but anything else?)

It seems odd to me that if 2 high safety is Russ' Achilles heel then why has it taken 10 years for the league to figure this out and suddenly apply it? Or was this weakness always hidden by PCs ground heavy offense and only exposed after Russ was allowed to "cook"?

We do know that Russ is more effective off of the play action (as are most QBs) so that aspect supports PC's philosophy as the reason for Russ' success, and not so much vice-versa.

No it's the play design to attack the 2 high safety look that was the killer. The OC didn't know or understand how to adjust to that type coverage. In a two high you attack short/mid when they drop one safety into the box to stop that then you attack mid/deep. We had no midrange game this season to help save them from the 2 high umbrella defense and the short range passing game was a joke. we saw 2 Pick 6's in our short passing game this year, almost 3. oof

 

[Anointed One]

Seattle Seahawks QB Russell Wilson: My involvement in finding next OC is 'critical'

Wilson: “It's critical, super significant obviously that I'm a part of that process."

www.seattlepi.com

Important points:
*Russ doesn't agree with the decision to let go. But he does specifically defer to PC in this decision.
*He believes that his involvement in hiring the next OC is critical.
Now you would think that this would go without saying but I don't know how much, if any, say Russ had in the Schotty firing but it is wholly obvious that he didn't have final say.

Hopefully this isn't a sign of internal dissension between Russ and PC. I always assumed that Russ had input with PC but now I'm not sure of how much say he actually has.

Russ and Schott became great friends so of course it's going to be tough at first... Deep down, I believe Russ understands and respects the decision by PC... I don't read into this any further that... They're on the same page imo...

 

[Tapey]

 

[flyerhawk]

If we hire Pederson to be our OC, I may just skip next season. I don't think it would be possible to hire a LESS inspiring choice than Pederson.

Does Pete like the way he completely destroyed Carson Wentz this season?

 

[Cave_Johnson]

Fuckin weak

 

[MrS]

If we hire pederson will the folks always telling me pete and john know better shut the fuck up finally?

Also, the dude won a SB with a backup qb against brady who we couldnt beat.

And carson wentz is a little bitch.

 

[Podunkparte]

If we hire pederson will the folks always telling me pete and john know better shut the fuck up finally?

Also, the dude won a SB with a backup qb against brady who we couldnt beat.

And carson wentz is a little bitch.

You misunderstand.

The point is that you don't know better, yet your posts are always full of statements suggesting you do.