Random Thoughts 2.1

[Lake Shore Drive]

There have been a number of stories and reports that Madrigal might not be ready to start the season with the Sox due to his postseason shoulder surgery. Yet reading this story, it gives me hope that the kid might be ready to go after all.

Madrigal plans to be ready for Opening Day

CHICAGO -- Nick Madrigal returned to baseball activity Monday at Camelback Ranch, marking a significant step in the White Sox second baseman’s rehab work following October surgery on his left shoulder. That baseball work wasn’t too extensive, with Madrigal taking ground balls for the first time...

www.mlb.com

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

So what's everyone's thoughts on the Lindor/Carrasco trade to the Mets for 4 of their high end prospects? I have two immediate thoughts:

1. While this continues to weaken the Tribe overall, they still maintain a solid rotation, so they should not be taken lightly. However, to me they're clearly now a definitive notch below the Sox & Twins, if they weren't already.
2. Once again it's a major trade, not a top end free agent signing, that continues to dominate the offseason action. When are those FA dominoes going to fall?

 

[Mingo]

So what's everyone's thoughts on the Lindor/Carrasco trade to the Mets for 4 of their high end prospects? I have two immediate thoughts:

1. While this continues to weaken the Tribe overall, they still maintain a solid rotation, so they should not be taken lightly. However, to me they're clearly now a definitive notch below the Sox & Twins, if they weren't already.
2. Once again it's a major trade, not a top end free agent signing, that continues to dominate the offseason action. When are those FA dominoes going to fall?

I'm surprised the Cleveland Baseball Team did not get the Mets top prospect pitcher or SS - the guys they did get are 2-3 years away and don't figure to be superstar types. The 33 yr old pitcher they got is serviceable, but also has Lymphoma of some kind - though pitched pretty well in 2020 - questionable durability.

Definitely a subtraction of talent from last year now - 3rd place material, I do agree - don't over look them as they seem to develop pitchers pretty well.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

So what's everyone's thoughts on the Lindor/Carrasco trade to the Mets for 4 of their high end prospects?

Major oopsies on my part. At the time when I read about the trade, there was really no info on the players Cleveland received. Not being familiar with the Mets roster, I just figured all four were prospects. It turns out only two of them are, the other two were already on the Mets parent roster. Thought I should clear that up.

 

[Mingo]

My random thought today is that Nick Madrigal ought to be 2nd in the batting order. You need a guy who can get on base - who can make contact - hit behind the runner - give LaRu an option for the hit and run. The added benefit is it will keep Madrigal for running wild on the bases until he learns he is no longer in a league where guys can't throw him out from the outfield.

Luis Robert is not a 2nd in the order batter. Why would you have a fast guy running behind another fast guy - that only limits the speed Robert has on the bases. Plus Robert has a swing and miss problem at this stage in his career - he needs to bat later in the order until he gets his on base percentage up.

The curse of Renteria's batting orders will be lifted.

 

[idseer]

My random thought today is that Nick Madrigal ought to be 2nd in the batting order. You need a guy who can get on base - who can make contact - hit behind the runner - give LaRu an option for the hit and run. The added benefit is it will keep Madrigal for running wild on the bases until he learns he is no longer in a league where guys can't throw him out from the outfield.

Luis Robert is not a 2nd in the order batter. Why would you have a fast guy running behind another fast guy - that only limits the speed Robert has on the bases. Plus Robert has a swing and miss problem at this stage in his career - he needs to bat later in the order until he gets his on base percentage up.

The curse of Renteria's batting orders will be lifted.

so, you're saying that a guy like nellie fox should be batting second?

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

My random thought today is that Nick Madrigal ought to be 2nd in the batting order. You need a guy who can get on base - who can make contact - hit behind the runner - give LaRu an option for the hit and run. The added benefit is it will keep Madrigal for running wild on the bases until he learns he is no longer in a league where guys can't throw him out from the outfield.

Luis Robert is not a 2nd in the order batter. Why would you have a fast guy running behind another fast guy - that only limits the speed Robert has on the bases. Plus Robert has a swing and miss problem at this stage in his career - he needs to bat later in the order until he gets his on base percentage up.

The curse of Renteria's batting orders will be lifted.

Well stated. I'd see Madrigal batting two, but only if the opposing starter is a lefty, otherwise I'd probably stick with Moncada at that spot. I guess the big question will be how does TLR see a classic Sox lineup. Let's try your suggestion with Madrigal facing a lefty:

Anderson, ss
Madrigal, 2b
Abreu, 1b
Moncada, 3b
Jimenez, lf
Grandal, c
DH?????
Robert, cf
Engel, rf

A few notes on the above. I placed Moncada 4th, as he'll bat RH, but when the other team switches to a RH pitcher, at least he breaks up the all RH lineup for those first five batters. As you can see, I placed a few ???, as we really don't have a set DH at this point - gotta fix that. Finally, since I expect Engel and Eaton to platoon, at least to begin the season, I have Adam facing the lefty.

 

[Jiddy]

I've always been of the opinion that our best lineup players should be at the top 1-5.

Our best lineup players, imo, are:

Tim Anderson
Yoan Moncada
Jose Abreu
Eloy Jimenez
Luis Robert

More at bats for the best players. Simple Simon. Maybe a few situational changes here and there...but that should be the exception, not the norm.

Those 5 guys are going to be the core 5 that either get us there or don't. If they don't, it doesn't matter if they're hitting 4 or 6...We're screwed.

Robert and, to a lesser degree now, Moncada, need to slow their roll on the strikeouts. If they do so, it could be the best 1-5 in the league.

Nick Madrigal taking one of their spots and potentially 50+ more at-bats in a season seems foolish.

But hey, I trust LaRussa in this endeavor. If he decides that Madrigal is Ichiro lite and should be in the 2 to start the season...I'm willing to roll with it until actual on field results can be quantified/considered.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

I've always been of the opinion that our best lineup players should be at the top 1-5.

Our best lineup players, imo, are:

Tim Anderson
Yoan Moncada
Jose Abreu
Eloy Jimenez
Luis Robert

More at bats for the best players. Simple Simon. Maybe a few situational changes here and there...but that should be the exception, not the norm.

Those 5 guys are going to be the core 5 that either get us there or don't. If they don't, it doesn't matter if they're hitting 4 or 6...We're screwed.

Robert and, to a lesser degree now, Moncada, need to slow their roll on the strikeouts. If they do so, it could be the best 1-5 in the league.

Nick Madrigal taking one of their spots and potentially 50+ more at-bats in a season seems foolish.

But hey, I trust LaRussa in this endeavor. If he decides that Madrigal is Ichiro lite and should be in the 2 to start the season...I'm willing to roll with it until actual on field results can be quantified/considered.

Nothing wrong with the take of placing your best five hitters in the 1-5 lineup. I think the question at this juncture is who is our best five. No one loves Robert and his potential more than me, but he really struggled super big time as the season wore on. He particularly seems vulnerable to the the breaking ball away and out of the strike zone. I don't have his stats in front of me, but I'm guessing his chase rate was gawd awful. And don't think for one moment that opposing scouts didn't notice this and pass it along to their respective teams. He did somewhat redeem himself in the postseason against the A's, looking much more like who we expect to see in the coming years. But right now I'd play it safe and keep him lower in the batting order until he figures things out and proves he's up to his reputation.

 

[idseer]

i don't understand how someone can exclude madrigal from what's considered our top 5 players. a solid .300+ hitter who hits to all fields, doesn't strike out, knows how to bunt and in general keeps innings alive. not to mention his fielding. honest to god, is all you think is important is home runs? he should most DEFINITELY be our number 2 hitter. remember, a guy who hits and gets on base is NOT stealing ab's from anyone!

 

[Jiddy]

i don't understand how someone can exclude madrigal from what's considered our top 5 players. a solid .300+ hitter who hits to all fields, doesn't strike out, knows how to bunt and in general keeps innings alive. not to mention his fielding. honest to god, is all you think is important is home runs? he should most DEFINITELY be our number 2 hitter. remember, a guy who hits and gets on base is NOT stealing ab's from anyone!

I'd take a bet that if we offered any of the 5 I listed on the trade market...that they'd all bring back a better haul than Madrigal. Possibly Abreu because of his age is the only exception...but it would be close even considering that. So that tells me who MLB executives and coaches would go with....I feel sound in what I said. No regrets. The superstar talent/potential is way higher and/or already proven on my list one to one vs Madrigal.

FFS, all 5 of them could be MVP-type players. Nobody on the planet has ever mentioned that possibility with Madrigal. Possibly all 5 of my list are on the list for MVP betting odds. Madrigal you'd probably have to request specific odds from the sportsbook. So the guys who fix this sh*t are feeling me too.

 

[idseer]

I'd take s bet that if we offered any of the 5 I listed on the trade market...They'd all bring back a better haul than Madrigal. Possibly Abreu because of his age is the only exception...but it would be close even considering that. So that tells me who MLB executives and coaches would go with....I feel sound in what I said. No regrets. The superstar talent/potential is way higher and/or already proven on my list one to one vs Madrigal.

FFS, all 5 of them could be MVP-type players. Nobody on the planet has ever mentioned that possibility with Madrigal. Possibly all 5 of my list are on the list for MVP betting odds. Madrigal you'd probably have to request specific odds from the sportsbook. So the guys who fix this sh*t are on my side too.

We’re talking about lineups … not best to worst players on a team.

by isolating each player as you do you ignore the game and how it’s played. Managers do not make lineups based on best player to worst. They never have. Going by your reasoning abreu should be leading off!

The fact is a steady AND dependable bat like madrigals should be in the 2 slot based on things other than his rbi potential.

 

[Jiddy]

We’re talking about lineups … not best to worst players on a team.

by isolating each player as you do you ignore the game and how it’s played. Managers do not make lineups based on best player to worst. They never have. Going by your reasoning abreu should be leading off!

The fact is a steady AND dependable bat like madrigals should be in the 2 slot based on things other than his rbi potential.

If Moncada actually hits .300+ post-covid like in 2019, he's a much better 2 spot after Madrigal. Madrigal can't hit 3/4/5...and he certainly won't upend Anderson at the top - That story has kind of cemented itself by now I think it's fair to say... (PS....SUPERSTAR!)

Sooo...I stand by it...Our top 5 players should get the most at-bats...which lie in spots 1-5. Madrigal does not supplant Anderson or Moncada and ffs can't hit 3-4-5 cuz he's a slappy scrapper...not a cleanup. I mean, I get it...Moncada is on my "suspect" list...Has been from day 1...but if he plays like 2019, there's no way an argument can be made for Madrigal over him...or any of the other 4 spots from there.

Our 5 MVP caliber players should get the 1-5. This doesn't have to be rocket science. You're doing a tapdance when you start figuring Madrigal into that group...and that's when you know it's the wrong decision.

WIN WITH YOUR BEST PLAYERS.

That said, I'm not Tony LaRussa so we'll see what happens. My inner cynic says he's going to put Grandal up there because that's how my sports life goes.

 

[idseer]

If Moncada actually hits .300+ post-covid like in 2019, he's a much better 2 spot after Madrigal. Madrigal can't hit 3/4/5...and he certainly won't upend Anderson at the top - That story has kind of cemented itself by now I think it's fair to say... (PS....SUPERSTAR!)

Sooo...I stand by it...Our top 5 players should get the most at-bats...which lie in spots 1-5. Madrigal does not supplant Anderson or Moncada and ffs can't hit 3-4-5 cuz he's a slappy scrapper...not a cleanup. I mean, I get it...Moncada is on my "suspect" list...Has been from day 1...but if he plays like 2019, there's no way an argument can be made for Madrigal over him...or any of the other 4 spots from there.

Our 5 MVP caliber players should get the 1-5. This doesn't have to be rocket science. You're doing a tapdance when you start figuring Madrigal into that group...and that's when you know it's the wrong decision.

WIN WITH YOUR BEST PLAYERS.

That said, I'm not Tony LaRussa so we'll see what happens. My inner cynic says he's going to put Grandal up there because that's how my sports life goes.

tapdance? i am on solid ground with my reasoning and i 'stand by it' too. not saying it will happen, at least not this coming season.
btw, counting the number of ab's lost or stolen ....that's a bunch of hooey! move moncada to the # 3 spot and he'd get around 12 fewer ab's (every batter moved back would get about 12 fewer at bats based on 500 ab's a season [in 2019 only 3 batters had as many as 500 ab's]. considering the extra value of a guy who can be more depended on to move runners or get on himself on to be driven in, i think that's the wise move.

WIN WITH ALL YOUR PLAYERS!

 

[Jiddy]

tapdance? i am on solid ground with my reasoning and i 'stand by it' too. not saying it will happen, at least not this coming season.
btw, counting the number of ab's lost or stolen ....that's a bunch of hooey! move moncada to the # 3 spot and he'd get around 12 fewer ab's (every batter moved back would get about 12 fewer at bats based on 500 ab's a season [in 2019 only 3 batters had as many as 500 ab's]. considering the extra value of a guy who can be more depended on to move runners or get on himself on to be driven in, i think that's the wise move.

WIN WITH ALL YOUR PLAYERS!

I was just riffin' with the tapdance thing...but now you've inspired me Mr. Astaire. ;P

But really...I get what you're saying...and while those season numbers matter as every bit counts - It's not just season overall stats. I'm also talking about each individual game situation. If we're coming back around in the 9th inning to the top of our order and the game is close, I want Anderson/Moncada/Robert/Abreu/Eloy in that situation....I don't want Madrigal there for that extra at-bat. WIN WITH YOUR BEST PLAYERS.

I know baseball is unique as compared to other sports...but I die softly when Chris Thompson is on coverage duty on Steve Smith...Javon Wims is catching a deep ball instead of Allen Robinson or Darnell Mooney...Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen are on the bench with 2 to go...lol...Who am I kidding...That, thankfully, didn't happen. God bless superstars. I think the real answer here is you just need to see my listed 5 do their God mode do a little more this season so this can put itself to bed naturally. I'll see you on the other side of that blissful situation.

 

[idseer]

I was just riffin' with the tapdance thing...but now you've inspired me Mr. Astaire. ;P

But really...I get what you're saying...and while those season numbers matter as every bit counts - It's not just season overall stats. I'm also talking about each individual game situation. If we're coming back around in the 9th inning to the top of our order and the game is close, I want Anderson/Moncada/Robert/Abreu/Eloy in that situation....I don't want Madrigal there for that extra at-bat. WIN WITH YOUR BEST PLAYERS.

I know baseball is unique as compared to other sports...but I die softly when Chris Thompson is on coverage duty on Steve Smith...Javon Wims is catching a deep ball instead of Allen Robinson or Darnell Mooney...Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen are on the bench with 2 to go...lol...Who am I kidding...That, thankfully, didn't happen. God bless superstars. I think the real answer here is you just need to see my listed 5 do their God mode do a little more this season so this can put itself to bed naturally. I'll see you on the other side of that blissful situation.

i still just like the fact there's so much to look forward to this season (hopefully a full one).

 

[Jiddy]

i still just like the fact there's so much to look forward to this season (hopefully a full one).

Oh we're gonna win. Amazing how much one shortened season can change things.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

One advantage we've had so far is we've had virtually no major vacancies on our roster this offseason, at least with respect to high impact free agents seeking better contracts. Our two chief competitors, Cleveland and Minny have struggled with keeping their team intact, altho for different reasons. Minny has numerous free agents, some of whom have played important roles in their winning the division the past two years. Cleveland's situation is more of a salary dumping nature, so a number of their major players have either left or have been traded.

But Hahn and company need to keep the pedal to the metal and sign more impact people, mainly securing the closer spot and a 1-2 season DH to help seal the deal. Maybe even a 4th starter, altho I'm becoming more comfortable with us going to war with the current rotation as planned, and perhaps bolstering the pen - altho again, if we break camp with our current batch of relievers, I think we're in pretty good shape.

 

[Mingo]

If the Twins don't resign - soon to be 40 years old - Nelson Cruz - they will be fighting Cleveland and the Royals for 3rd place.

 

[Mingo]

Today's random thought. Eloy Jimenez should be a DH this year. Let's face it - Eloy (who I love) has had plenty of time to show an improvement trend in outfield defense and hasn't. From the DH position Eloy can continue to play LF on occassion and can continue to prove he needs to be in the outfield by putting in the extra time to practice catching balls near the wall, fielding balls off the wall - and working the foul line for plays.

The Sox need to sign another OF to play regularly in LF or give the job to Leuery Garcia.