Random FF Thoughts

[TREFF]

Didnt they move money forward for years? Those Brees teams were really stacked.

Instead of rebuilding, they went all-in on the draft last year to get Olave and an OT. Seems like the only team in the league that forgot that the QB is important.

well you've got 25.7 mill for Cam Jordan..ok I get that one
22.5 for Lattimore..ok, a bit much, but sure
21.4 for Ryan Ramczyk..agian, a bit much, but sure
so like 70 million tied up in the three guys that basically make up the core
then the 5 million dead cap number of guys no longer around--75million
basically one third of the cap-%33

and even accounting for Kamara's dumb number, and Michael Thomas's dumb number.. both are overpaid commensurate to what they produce today, but, relatively speaking they aren't that terrible..Zeke is paid substantially more than Kamara, Thomas is nowhere near in the area of the current top paid WR's, the only true QB on the '23 payroll is Winston, barely making a backups salary, how the heck are these guys sooo over he cap with a bunch of nobodies?

 

[Clayton]

well you've got 25.7 mill for Cam Jordan..ok I get that one
22.5 for Lattimore..ok, a bit much, but sure
21.4 for Ryan Ramczyk..agian, a bit much, but sure
so like 70 million tied up in the three guys that basically make up the core
then the 5 million dead cap number of guys no longer around--75million
basically one third of the cap-%33

and even accounting for Kamara's dumb number, and Michael Thomas's dumb number.. both are overpaid commensurate to what they produce today, but, relatively speaking they aren't that terrible..Zeke is paid substantially more than Kamara, Thomas is nowhere near in the area of the current top paid WR's, the only true QB on the '23 payroll is Winston, barely making a backups salary, how the heck are these guys sooo over he cap with a bunch of nobodies?

Saints are paying Taysom Hill $10 million. By comparison, the Chiefs are paying Kelce $14 million.

Saints are paying good money to 3 offensive linemen and a running back. They are 19th in rush yards per game. They are paying too much for their production.

 

[TREFF]

Saints are paying Taysom Hill $10 million. By comparison, the Chiefs are paying Kelce $14 million.

Saints are paying good money to 3 offensive linemen and a running back. They are 19th in rush yards per game. They are paying too much for their production.

so the answer is 'Mikey Loomis, that's how" dude needs to go, that's just ludicrous.

from what I'm seeing, using the two available post June designations, the best they can do there is saving about 20-24 mill by cutting Jordan and Peat...neither of which they'll likely do, so that'll leave them Winston and Kamara? D. Davis? that's like maybe 20 mill..
which leaves them only a whole slew of pre June 1st cuts that save diddly sqwat each, or a shitton of extensions/restructures, further kicking the can down the road, for guys that aren't getting the job done.

Just sad. Saint's will need amazing results from the draft the next 2-4 years to be relevant in any way shape or form for the foreseeable future

 

[averagejoe]

Speaking of cap space....
Local chatter on sports talk radio is what the Bears will do this offseason... they have the #1 pick and the most cap space...
I have heard just about every scenario.

This may sound like Koolaid talk - i am not ignoring the holes all up and down the Bears roster - but when i see what the Falcons and Jets did on offense with virtual castoffs and no super elite... well... why cant the Bears or any other team do that?

 

[TREFF]

Speaking of cap space....
Local chatter on sports talk radio is what the Bears will do this offseason... they have the #1 pick and the most cap space...
I have heard just about every scenario.

This may sound like Koolaid talk - i am not ignoring the holes all up and down the Bears roster - but when i see what the Falcons and Jets did on offense with virtual castoffs and no super elite... well... why cant the Bears or any other team do that?

I guess I'd want some clarification as to what the Jets and Falcons did so well offensively.
Scoring offense, Falcons were middle of the road, Jets, near the very bottom
Passing yardages, Jets were upper side of the middle, Falcons second to last
Rushing yards Falcons were 3rd, Jets on the upper side of the bottom tier. But Da Bears were already #1 in rushing yardage so they're already above them.

 

[wilwhite]

Speaking of cap space....
Local chatter on sports talk radio is what the Bears will do this offseason... they have the #1 pick and the most cap space...
I have heard just about every scenario.

This may sound like Koolaid talk - i am not ignoring the holes all up and down the Bears roster - but when i see what the Falcons and Jets did on offense with virtual castoffs and no super elite... well... why cant the Bears or any other team do that?

I think offensively what the Bears need most is stability. Let the OL gel, keep the staff together, let Fields develop. Maybe add in a quick, sure-handed receiver for short routes.

Defense is where they need some better players.

 

[averagejoe]

guess I'd want some clarification as to what the Jets and Falcons did so well offensively.

Just that they did better than expected.

Even from the fantasy side of things, we look at offseason additions and subtractions. Pretty sure no one was clamoring for any Jets or Falcons offensive players.

Maybe i am alone in this but how many times do we see teams load up on playmakers only to be mediocre? Just my opinion but ATL and NYJ proved you can improve (or at least be competetive) without breaking the bank.

 

[SmokingMonkey]

Just that they did better than expected.

Even from the fantasy side of things, we look at offseason additions and subtractions. Pretty sure no one was clamoring for any Jets or Falcons offensive players.

Maybe i am alone in this but how many times do we see teams load up on playmakers only to be mediocre? Just my opinion but ATL and NYJ proved you can improve (or at least be competetive) without breaking the bank.

don't forget the Giants too

practice squad WR group and Saquan was all Danny Dimes needed to get into the playoffs
Think they did more with less than any other team in the league this year, Daboll knows how to coach them up.

Bears prob need someone that knows how to coach them up if they want to take the 'castoffs' approach

 

[averagejoe]

don't forget the Giants too

Was also thinking of Miami w/ Flores.

 

[averagejoe]

Bears prob need someone that knows how to coach them up if they want to take the 'castoffs' approach

This probably wont get a lot of traction since the Bears were the worst team in the league, however, with a team devoid of elite players, i do believe Eberflus did a decent job.

I realize finishing 32nd with a 3-14 record doesnt seem like the head coach was successful, but 7 of those 14 losses were 1-score games. Plus i do feel OC Getsy had to figure out what he had in Fields for the first 5 or 6 games before the offense was tailored around his skillset.

 

[Bandit]

This probably wont get a lot of traction since the Bears were the worst team in the league, however, with a team devoid of elite players, i do believe Eberflus did a decent job.

I realize finishing 32nd with a 3-14 record doesnt seem like the head coach was successful, but 7 of those 14 losses were 1-score games. Plus i do feel OC Getsy had to figure out what he had in Fields for the first 5 or 6 games before the offense was tailored around his skillset.

Just out of curiosity how happy are you going to be if they trade Fields and take one of the rookie quarterbacks at #1?

 

[averagejoe]

Just out of curiosity how happy are you going to be if they trade Fields and take one of the rookie quarterbacks at #1?

Honestly? IDK.
I like Fields. But just seems like something is missing? Cant put my finger on it.

My gut tells me it would be like starting over. But the Bears have been starting over (again & again) since 1986.

Depends what else they get for him.

In some respects i almost expect them to trade Fields. Why? Solely for the fact that Fields is connected to the old regime of Pace/Nagy and all the nightmarish draft futures and cap hits that hamstrung the Poles/Eberflus regime. They already rectified the cap and draft capital. Fields is the only key piece leftover.

 

[TKOSpikes]

yesterday was the first time I was able to get a REAL look at Pacheco in game action. Kid has some electricity to his game for sure, and is a friggin handful, if you don't wrap him up, he's gonna bounce off you or run you over for a big gainer. however, I see why he was still there in the seventh as well. Either his vision, or his instincts, are crap, he left a ton of yardage on the field with bad angles and bad choices

Picked him up/traded for him where I could after the Chiefs played the Bills.

Electric is the right word. The other stuff can be taught and learned.

 

[Bandit]

Picked him up/traded for him where I could after the Chiefs played the Bills.

Electric is the right word. The other stuff can be taught and learned.

I think Andy Reid has evolved with the rest of the NFL. He used to be a one running back that can do everything and play three downs guy, but now he's moved to the committee approach. He'll have value, you're just going to have to deal with just as many 8 rushes for 30 yard games because they just decide to throw it that game as he'll have the 18 carries for 120 yard games. There are just so many running backs like that now where they have catastrophic floors to go with their high ceilings. I miss the days where a bad game for a #1 running back on just about any team was 8 or 9 fantasy points. It's the terrible games that are the fantasy killers.

 

[TREFF]

I think Andy Reid has evolved with the rest of the NFL. He used to be a one running back that can do everything and play three downs guy, but now he's moved to the committee approach. He'll have value, you're just going to have to deal with just as many 8 rushes for 30 yard games because they just decide to throw it that game as he'll have the 18 carries for 120 yard games. There are just so many running backs like that now where they have catastrophic floors to go with their high ceilings. I miss the days where a bad game for a #1 running back on just about any team was 8 or 9 fantasy points. It's the terrible games that are the fantasy killers.

Nah..I don't buy it. He took CEH with the intention of a real RB to be used like a 20+ touch guy. What he's been doing, he's been forced into doing because it the best way to use what he's got. CEH was supposed to be his new Westbrook, his new Shady, but he ain't that guy. I think he'll keep searching

 

[TREFF]

Just that they did better than expected.

Even from the fantasy side of things, we look at offseason additions and subtractions. Pretty sure no one was clamoring for any Jets or Falcons offensive players.

Maybe i am alone in this but how many times do we see teams load up on playmakers only to be mediocre? Just my opinion but ATL and NYJ proved you can improve (or at least be competetive) without breaking the bank.

to a point they did somewhat better than I would've expected. Atlanta did so by doing exactly what I figured they would..run run and more run..which was why I was of the opinion they should've not drafted London, and drafted a RB, grab a WR in free agency or this years draft, Kenny Walker would've done excellent in that offense. The Jets, I think that was %100 coaches maximizing what they could with really good gameplans and putting their back up QB's in as many 'hard to fail' positions as possible. That and Corey Davis, along with Garret Wilson aren't entirely a collection of nobodies out there either.

don't forget the Giants too

practice squad WR group and Saquan was all Danny Dimes needed to get into the playoffs
Think they did more with less than any other team in the league this year, Daboll knows how to coach them up.

Bears prob need someone that knows how to coach them up if they want to take the 'castoffs' approach

Gmen made it based off that very hot start, and primarily it was that elite-ness of Barkley playing better than he ever had in his entire career..after the bye they were 3-5-1 and not coincidentally, Barkley only had one game in that stretch that was of note. It's a grey area to try and include the Gmen as putting together a good offensive season without elite offensive playmakers, when they did in fact have one, and more or less only won the games where that guy played at elite levels

Was also thinking of Miami w/ Flores.

Much like the GMEN, the Phins definitely had an elite playmaker, and I'd say its an easy correlation to make that their offense vastly improved once he joined the team. And we may have to include Waddle when we talk about the upper echelon of WR's in the league today. Maybe not elite of elite, but certainly much better than average. Between the two, they're worthy of consideration of being the best WR tandem outside of Chase and Higgins.


If I were to want to compare a bunch of relative nobodies who had success as a plan to emulate, I would point towards the Lions, even after trading Hockensen they were still a potent offensive team, with St. Brown being the only legitimate playmaker on the team, and he's hardly elite...yet

 

[SmokingMonkey]

@TREFF - This convo was about the Bears needing someone that can coach the team up and Flores in MIA and Daboll last year are exactly the type of HC's you need if you're trying to maximize output from castaways. Maybe Eberflus is that guy, but not sure yet, need to see what happens next season.

Daniel Jones 1.1% INT rate plus his best completion % of his career on top of his expanded role in the run game has a lot more to do with Daboll than it does with Barkley. Barkley only had 4, maybe 5, great games this year, and only 2 of them were during NYG's hot start. 80-ish yards and a TD from a bellcow RB isn't game changing stuff.

They were better on offense than anyone expected, played good D, and were well coached. Detroit was the only non-playoff team to beat the Giants this year. Beating the teams you're supposed to is a great indicator of a HC pulling the right levers to get the job done.

And the Brian Flores Dolphins teams...who were the elite playmakers on there? Gaskins, Parker, and Gesicki are FAR from elite, and Flores was competitive and winning NFL games with Fitzpatrick/Tua/Brissett as his QB.

 

[TREFF]

@TREFF - This convo was about the Bears needing someone that can coach the team up and Flores in MIA and Daboll last year are exactly the type of HC's you need if you're trying to maximize output from castaways. Maybe Eberflus is that guy, but not sure yet, need to see what happens next season.

Daniel Jones 1.1% INT rate plus his best completion % of his career on top of his expanded role in the run game has a lot more to do with Daboll than it does with Barkley. Barkley only had 4, maybe 5, great games this year, and only 2 of them were during NYG's hot start. 80-ish yards and a TD from a bellcow RB isn't game changing stuff.

They were better on offense than anyone expected, played good D, and were well coached. Detroit was the only non-playoff team to beat the Giants this year. Beating the teams you're supposed to is a great indicator of a HC pulling the right levers to get the job done.

And the Brian Flores Dolphins teams...who were the elite playmakers on there? Gaskins, Parker, and Gesicki are FAR from elite, and Flores was competitive and winning NFL games with Fitzpatrick/Tua/Brissett as his QB.

my bad, the B FLores team sure as shit did not have Reek Hill..I messed that one up. For some reason I had this years Phins in mind..oops.

But you can't compare a Bears skill position unit completely devoid of any real playmaking outside of a QB running for his life, to one that has Barkley on it and say 'well the Gmen did so why can't the Bears?'. Even if any given time Barkley himself didn't have a monumental game, his presence alone completely changes the whole outlook for the entire gameplan on both sides of the ball, allowing that rag tag group of WR's more room to operate, Danny Dimes, more room for error. There was in fact, an elite skill position player on the team to utilize, something that Eberflus does not currently have, nor has any guarantee of having going into next year. So the comparison is somewhat weak, IMHO. Yes the Gmen were better than expected, mostly because Barkley had a season on par with his rookie year, and people had largely stopped expecting it from him after the previous 3 disappointing years, not necessarily because Daboll is an offensive genius..although this in no way is to suggest that DaBoll isn't one, just that it doesn't prove that he is.

No one can point to Daniel Jones stats and not look at the direct correlation with Saquan having his first full, fully healthy season, since his rookie year ( which was pre Danny Dimes), and just dismiss the very obvious connection to the two facts. I'm much more inclined to credit Barkley's effect on the opposing defenses than DaBoll pulling magic out of him. Nothing opens up an efficient passing game, like a strong reliable rush threat

 

[SmokingMonkey]

my bad, the B FLores team sure as shit did not have Reek Hill..I messed that one up. For some reason I had this years Phins in mind..oops.

But you can't compare a Bears skill position unit completely devoid of any real playmaking outside of a QB running for his life, to one that has Barkley on it and say 'well the Gmen did so why can't the Bears?'. Even if any given time Barkley himself didn't have a monumental game, his presence alone completely changes the whole outlook for the entire gameplan on both sides of the ball, allowing that rag tag group of WR's more room to operate, Danny Dimes, more room for error. There was in fact, an elite skill position player on the team to utilize, something that Eberflus does not currently have, nor has any guarantee of having going into next year. So the comparison is somewhat weak, IMHO. Yes the Gmen were better than expected, mostly because Barkley had a season on par with his rookie year, and people had largely stopped expecting it from him after the previous 3 disappointing years, not necessarily because Daboll is an offensive genius..although this in no way is to suggest that DaBoll isn't one, just that it doesn't prove that he is.

No one can point to Daniel Jones stats and not look at the direct correlation with Saquan having his first full, fully healthy season, since his rookie year ( which was pre Danny Dimes), and just dismiss the very obvious connection to the two facts. I'm much more inclined to credit Barkley's effect on the opposing defenses than DaBoll pulling magic out of him. Nothing opens up an efficient passing game, like a strong reliable rush threat

is it not weird that Allen's efficiency metrics dropped and Jones' popped when Daboll switched from BUF to NYG?

Never heard so many people talk about BUF needing another weapon when Daboll was calling the shots, and practice squad WRs looked pretty darn good in NYG this year, including a guy that BUF cut, with Daboll calling the shots.

I think you're overstating a RBs significance in today's game. A QB with a legit rushing threat keeps the defenses more honest than a reliable RB, and opens up more lanes for the RB compared to the RB's performance having a significant impact on the passing attack. Every year Barkley stays healthy is another year he leads the league in negative rushing yards.

 

[TREFF]

is it not weird that Allen's efficiency metrics dropped and Jones' popped when Daboll switched from BUF to NYG?

Never heard so many people talk about BUF needing another weapon when Daboll was calling the shots, and practice squad WRs looked pretty darn good in NYG this year, including a guy that BUF cut, with Daboll calling the shots.

I think you're overstating a RBs significance in today's game. A QB with a legit rushing threat keeps the defenses more honest than a reliable RB, and opens up more lanes for the RB compared to the RB's performance having a significant impact on the passing attack. Every year Barkley stays healthy is another year he leads the league in negative rushing yards.

haha, i love that last line. A guy named Barry Sanders was good at that as well though


As far as Josh Allen/DaBoll goes..what about the other POV? Brian Daboll was an OC for 8 other years, and never engineered a an offense better than 22nd in yards, or 20th in points that entire time, including Allen's rookie and sophomore seasons. Perhaps Allen's natural progression made Daboll? The dip in efficiency, as minimal as it is, could easily be chalked up to unfamiliarity with a new system, or even as simple of a reason as the subtraction of slot machine that was Cole Beasly. A guy like Beasly does wonders for QB's efficiency ratings. You think Carr leads the league in efficiency two years running without Hunter Renfrow? Renfrow misses significant action for the first time in his career and Carr gets so bad he gets benched..and that's with Devonte Adams being added.


I don't' think the value of a true rushing threat, at RB, to the overall offensive output, ESPECIALLY the efficiency aspect, can possibly be overstated. Wanna try and make that case for Tannyhill's career resurgence since he got paired with King Henry? he was borderline at best in Miami, goes to Tenn, leads the league in rating, yards per attempt, yards per completion, adjusted yards net per attempt..plus his slide back into being borderline at best has directly mirrored Henry's decent from dominance.


Passing, rushing, they're symbiotic, if one is great, it helps the other, and there's no denying that a healthy Barkley is among the very best in the entire league--especially in the passing aspect of the game. Its much less of a stretch than magically fixing Daniel Jones. And me saying that, is not me trying to discredit DaBoll. Obviously he deserves some credit. But an offense getting its most dynamic playmaker back and playing at his level, that can't just be discounted.

this craziness that RB's aren't vital in this league...gets proven incorrect at almost every turn, yet everyone keeps returning to it because of one exception here or there