QBs (Of course)

[j_y19]

Purdy? You mean Jones? And dak was a fourth round pick.

And Hurts was a second round pick so Jones was the only 1st round pick.

 

[j_y19]

Sorry….I misread your post.

 

[skinsdad62]

Sorry….I misread your post.

no big deal i saw you figured it out

 

[Stymietee]

When is the last time we drafted a qb not in the 1st round (Not including Howell)? It's not striking gold to find a capable qb in later rounds of the draft. You just need to know what your looking for. Its usually not the shiney new toy that Snyder seems to draft.

Aren't you tired of searching for a "capable" QB? They've been doing that since Mark Rypien retired!

The shiny new toy narrative is a myth, here are the QBs drafted in round one during the Snyder era (1999) and there's ONLY been one (1) drafted in the top ten since Snyder bought the team.

2002-Patrick Ramsey Pick #32
2005-Jason Campbell Pick #25
2012- Robert Griffin III Pick #1
2019- Dwayne Haskins Pick #15

Here are the QBs that they've drafted in the later rounds during that same time span.

2000- Todd Husak 6th round Pick #202
2001- Sage Rosenfels 4th round Pick #109
2003- Gibran Hamdan 7th round Pick #232
2007- Jordan Palmer 6th round Pick #205
2008- Colt Brennan 6th round Pick #186
2012- Kirk Cousins 4th round Pick #102
2016-Nate Sudfeld 6th round Pick #187
2022-Sam Howell 5th round Pick #144

 

[duke1861]

Aren't you tired of searching for a "capable" QB? They've been doing that since Mark Rypien retired!

The shiny new toy narrative is a myth, here are the QBs drafted in round one during the Snyder era (1999) and there's ONLY been one (1) drafted in the top ten since Snyder bought the team.

2002-Patrick Ramsey Pick #32
2005-Jason Campbell Pick #25
2012- Robert Griffin III Pick #1
2019- Dwayne Haskins Pick #15

Here are the QBs that they've drafted in the later rounds during that same time span.

2000- Todd Husak 6th round Pick #202
2001- Sage Rosenfels 4th round Pick #109
2003- Gibran Hamdan 7th round Pick #232
2007- Jordan Palmer 6th round Pick #205
2008- Colt Brennan 6th round Pick #186
2012- Kirk Cousins 4th round Pick #102
2016-Nate Sudfeld 6th round Pick #187
2022-Sam Howell 5th round Pick #144

Our qb drafting has been down right awful.
I think so much of it depends on coaching. Why was new England able to develop almost every qb they drafted for 10 years?

 

[Stymietee]

in the division round of the NFC we have 3 qbs starting that weren't drafted in round one . dak hurts and purdy . at least one will make the conference championship game possibly 2

what formulas did they use ? how are they winning ?

we could emulate that for now

now the whole truth is all 4 of the afc qbs are 1st rounders

No argument about the three in the NFC except two of them have exceptional coaches, GMs, and organizational structures. The other is Dallas.

I'll take what the AFC is having for 200 Alex!

Here is the entire list of QBs in this year's playoffs.

Justin Herbert---1st round Pick #6
Trevor Lawrence-1st round Pick #1
Tua Tagovailoa---1st round Pick #5
Josh Allen--------1st round Pick #7
Daniel Jones-----1st round Pick #6
Joe Burrow-------1st round Pick #1
Geno Smith------2nd round Pick #39
Lamar Jackson---1st rouind Piock #32
Kirk Cousins----- 4th round Pick #102
Dak Prescott-----4th round Pick #135
Tom Brady------- 6th round Pick #199
Brock Purdy----- 7th round Pick # 262

 

[Stymietee]

Our qb drafting has been down right awful.
I think so much of it depends on coaching. Why was new England able to develop almost every qb they drafted for 10 years?

I can't argue that but I'll add this...
Most teams either draft the type of QB that fits their system or will build the team based on what their QB brings to the table. Washington outside of the one year that they ran Griffin has employed neither strategy no matter who the coaches are or have been. In fact, it would not be far off to note every change of coach that has been here to date (that Shanahan year excepted) the clear plan has been to force fit the QB to the team in place or force the team to fit the QB when in almost every case there has been a mismatch. I wrote about this many many years ago.

Square peg into round holes.​

...to team chemistry. Unfortunately, most overlook what is obviously true about the make-up of the team. Trying to fit a square peg into round holes is what is wrong with this team. Here's what I mean.

• Stymietee
• Thread
• Nov 19, 2013
• Replies: 6
• Forum: Washington Commanders(Football Team)(Redskins)

If Josh Allen falls to #13​

...No argument there, however, why was this ONLY discoverable AFTER spending as much as they did to get him originally? A square peg into round hole mentality is not a formula to success in the NFL. This team was not set up for a Griffin-type player to run its offense. Let's remember that they...

• Stymietee
• Post #193
• Feb 26, 2018
• Forum: Washington Commanders(Football Team)(Redskins)

turner conference call​

What a novel idea, tailoring to the strengths of the players that you have instead of forcing them into some rigid scheme. Correct me if I'm wrong about this, but didn't we talk about them doing exactly that in a thread long ago? I believe that the thread was titled "Square peg into a round hole."

• Stymietee
• Post #2
• Jan 15, 2020
• Forum: Washington Commanders(Football Team)(Redskins)

Redskins Misc News & Info​

The longer time posters here have all at one time or the other participated in discussions about this very thing. Now, how is it possible that a fan forum can figure that out and the "professional" hires here, until now, used a square peg into round hole concept?

• Stymietee
• Post #1,440
• May 6, 2020
• Forum: Washington Commanders(Football Team)(Redskins)

 

[Stymietee]

No argument about the three in the NFC except two of them have exceptional coaches, GMs, and organizational structures. The other is Dallas.

I'll take what the AFC is having for 200 Alex!

Here is the entire list of QBs in this year's playoffs.

Justin Herbert---1st round Pick #6
Trevor Lawrence-1st round Pick #1
Tua Tagovailoa---1st round Pick #5
Josh Allen--------1st round Pick #7
Daniel Jones-----1st round Pick #6
Joe Burrow-------1st round Pick #1
Geno Smith------2nd round Pick #39
Lamar Jackson---1st rouind Piock #32
Kirk Cousins----- 4th round Pick #102
Dak Prescott-----4th round Pick #135
Tom Brady------- 6th round Pick #199
Brock Purdy----- 7th round Pick # 262

Sorry, I forgot...

Jalen Hurt 2nd round Pick #53

 

[Sportster 72]

Our qb drafting has been down right awful.
I think so much of it depends on coaching. Why was new England able to develop almost every qb they drafted for 10 years?

Actually they had two good ones. Bledsoe before Bill got there and he got hurt and they had no clue Tom was going to be the goat. I was hoping for the same for Mac but is not determined yet.

 

[j_y19]

Aren't you tired of searching for a "capable" QB? They've been doing that since Mark Rypien retired!

The shiny new toy narrative is a myth, here are the QBs drafted in round one during the Snyder era (1999) and there's ONLY been one (1) drafted in the top ten since Snyder bought the team.

2002-Patrick Ramsey Pick #32
2005-Jason Campbell Pick #25
2012- Robert Griffin III Pick #1
2019- Dwayne Haskins Pick #15

Here are the QBs that they've drafted in the later rounds during that same time span.

2000- Todd Husak 6th round Pick #202
2001- Sage Rosenfels 4th round Pick #109
2003- Gibran Hamdan 7th round Pick #232
2007- Jordan Palmer 6th round Pick #205
2008- Colt Brennan 6th round Pick #186
2012- Kirk Cousins 4th round Pick #102
2016-Nate Sudfeld 6th round Pick #187
2022-Sam Howell 5th round Pick #144

Yes, I am tired of the search…..especially in somebody else’s yard. We are not going to be given a franchise QB from another team. IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Drafting A QB is not as hard as we make it. We have drafted a total of 5 QBs in 12 years…….and that is without having a solid starter. We should have been drafting on every year . Yet you continue to want to push us to relinquish valuable draft capital to either trade or move up. Same stupid strategy we have employed for over 20 years. Brilliant.

 

[j_y19]

No argument about the three in the NFC except two of them have exceptional coaches, GMs, and organizational structures. The other is Dallas.

I'll take what the AFC is having for 200 Alex!

Here is the entire list of QBs in this year's playoffs.

Justin Herbert---1st round Pick #6
Trevor Lawrence-1st round Pick #1
Tua Tagovailoa---1st round Pick #5
Josh Allen--------1st round Pick #7
Daniel Jones-----1st round Pick #6
Joe Burrow-------1st round Pick #1
Geno Smith------2nd round Pick #39
Lamar Jackson---1st rouind Piock #32
Kirk Cousins----- 4th round Pick #102
Dak Prescott-----4th round Pick #135
Tom Brady------- 6th round Pick #199
Brock Purdy----- 7th round Pick # 262

Why? I’ll take what the NFC is having. They got what they needed for a fraction of the cost of those other AFC teams.

 

[Stymietee]

Yes, I am tired of the search…..especially in somebody else’s yard. We are not going to be given a franchise QB from another team. IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Drafting A QB is not as hard as we make it. We have drafted a total of 5 QBs in 12 years…….and that is without having a solid starter. We should have been drafting on every year . Yet you continue to want to push us to relinquish valuable draft capital to either trade or move up. Same stupid strategy we have employed for over 20 years. Brilliant.

Perhaps you're having some difficulty looking at the historical facts, With the one exception involving Griffin, Washington has NEVER used draft capital to move up in a draft to get a top 10 QB. Let that sink in... except that one time, It has never been done...period! So charging me with attempting to do something over and over again that has ONLY been done once seems a little strange, wouldn't you agree? Now if you have any evidence to support your charge, I would love to see it and will apologize if you have it.

I further showed you a listing of the number of QBs that they have drafted over the years in the later rounds... more like your strategy... and how that has been the formula that actually hasn't worked out for this team. I presented proof, of this as well in this thread.

I get it that you don't like the idea of trading for Fields, perhaps not Love either, and that's fair, but again there's zero evidence that this team has ever traded for a young QB, still on his rookie contract, with another team with the upside that either of these guys has. IT HAS NEVER BEEN DONE in Washington under Snyder! Factually, the last time that it was done was in 1964 (Snead for Jurgensen) and that worked out extremely well for this team. During the Snyder era, Washington either trades for or acquires has-been cast-offs from other teams and perhaps you're connecting that nonsense with my proposals. Under the Snyder regime, my evidence of this is as follows and they are...
Alex Smith
Case Keenum
Mark Sanchez
Rex Grossman
Donavan McNabb
Todd Collins
Colt McCoy
Josh Johnson
Kyle Allen
John Beck
Tim Hasselbeck
Tony Banks
Jeff George
Tony Banks
Brad Johnson
Danny Wuerffel
Shane Matthews

 

[Stymietee]

Why? I’ll take what the NFC is having. They got what they needed for a fraction of the cost of those other AFC teams.

Of course, you would but I really don't believe that right now you would take the extremely high risk that comes with drafting these long shots

Kirk Cousins, Dak Prescott, Tom Brady, or Brock Purdy

OVER

Justin Herbert, Trevor Lawrence, Tua Tagovailoa, Josh Allen, Daniel Jones, Joe Burrow, Geno Smith, and Lamar Jackson who were all drafted by bad teams at the time at zero costs, unless you count a bad W/L record as cost.

Overall the cost was the same, for Washington the odds go up exponentially on a major hit like Brady, or a lesser one like Purdy. They've had Kirk Cousins and unless the goal maxes out at being adequate having him is a waste. Dak is Dak and I don't know what to make of him other than Jerrah Jones being an outstanding PR salesman.

You may or may not win championships with Geno Smith or Daniel Jones, but your odds to get to an SB and possibly win one goes way up with the likes of Herbert, Lawrence, Tagovailoa, Allen, Burrow, and Jackson. If he becomes available I would add Fields to this list. Love on the other hand gives me pause to add him because he has been so little used but the potential is there and he would fill that goal of having real competition for Sam Howell.

 

[skinsdad62]

We trade up for Ramsey and JC if I recall correctly and draft picks were involved

 

[skinsdad62]

i would say this , we had Herbert on the board and we took chase .

So far as far as production is concernEd , that was a huge miss.

some on this board have peddled they liked Tua better and that could be 100% true and my answer to that is they were wrong on that as well and would deserve criticism for that

chase the person is a good thing , chase the player so far is jadevion clowney. A guy who flashes but never lived up to his draft position.

this year will be telling

 

[Stymietee]

We trade up for Ramsey and JC if I recall correctly and draft picks were involved

You're correct except they didn't trade up they traded down for Ramsey. Ramsey was picked #32 in the 2002 draft.

In the 2002 NFL draft Washington had pick #18, which they traded down, and that pick went to Oakland in exchange for their first (#21) and a third. Washington (#21) then traded down again with New England in exchange for New England's first-, third- and seventh-round selections (32nd, 96th, and 234th).

Jason Campbell was selected with the #25 pick in the 2005 draft after Washington traded with Denver who received in exchange Washington's third-round selection (76th) and first- and fourth-round selections (22nd and 119th) in 2006.

As you can see, when trading for a QB in the top ten, it simply doesn't exist outside of the Griffin trade. BTW: as noted that #1 in 2006 ended up being pick #22 (Manny Lawson LB NC State, selected by SanFrancisco)

 

[skinsdad62]

You're correct except they didn't trade up they traded down for Ramsey. Ramsey was picked #32 in the 2002 draft.

In the 2002 NFL draft Washington had pick #18, which they traded down, and that pick went to Oakland in exchange for their first (#21) and a third. Washington (#21) then traded down again with New England in exchange for New England's first-, third- and seventh-round selections (32nd, 96th, and 234th).

Jason Campbell was selected with the #25 pick in the 2005 draft after Washington traded with Denver who received in exchange Washington's third-round selection (76th) and first- and fourth-round selections (22nd and 119th) in 2006.

As you can see, when trading for a QB in the top ten, it simply doesn't exist outside of the Griffin trade. BTW: as noted that #1 in 2006 ended up being pick #22 (Manny Lawson LB NC State, selected by SanFrancisco)

Thanks for the information

 

[Sportster 72]

In my posts where I pointed out the QBs drafted in the 1st round in my lifetime.

Shuler was a high pick due to a bad season
Griffin cost a shit ton of picks.
Norm Snead was the 2nd overall pick by the Redskins in 1961. In 64 Washington traded Snead for Jurgensen and Claude Crabb.

Clearly in my lifetime no 1st round QB was very good. There is no sure fire way to get a very good or even great QB.

Washington did have one 1st round QB who is in the HOF, won championships, played safety and was a hell of a punter
Sammy Baugh drafted 6th overall in 1937

 

[skinz2winz]

It seems as if no one wants to trade up this year 2023 and if the history of this board holds true, the next year 2024 will give us the same reluctance to move up. It seems no one wants to spend the capital that it would take. The search engine only allows me to go back to 2018, but from that time forward many on this board didn't want to move up, while other teams did what was necessary to get their guy.

Perhaps FIX the oline this off season and with draft picks (you need 3), find another LB and CB. Throw AR in for 2023 (1 yr) and see what happens. Move up in 2024 to take your QB of the future or start Howell in 2024. A year behind AR wouldn't hurt Howell.

 

[Stymietee]

Perhaps FIX the oline this off season and with draft picks (you need 3), find another LB and CB. Throw AR in for 2023 (1 yr) and see what happens. Move up in 2024 to take your QB of the future or start Howell in 2024. A year behind AR wouldn't hurt Howell.

For years we on this board have been writing and posting about fixing one thing or the other but not QB, we've been sold a bill of goods with Fitzpatrick, Wince, and Heinicke as starter material. We are now entering the 4th year of the so-called rebuild and the only thing that this brain trust has given some of us is more hope! Howell flashed and is the new shiny penny in the room, so what has been done? {rhetorical} fired the guy that gave us the system that he flashed in and gave a promise of a run-first team in an NFL world in which the passing game is taking precedence!

Aaron Rodgers will cost you 59.5 Million this year, another 50.5 Million in 2024 plus the cost to acquire him which has been ranging from a 3rd rounder (hahahahahahaha) to at minimum 2 firsts. In either case, that's a lot of assets to spend on a head case, skill diminished and likely one-year rental like Rodgers.

That said, OK, suppose they go after Rodgers and the cost is 2024 and 2025 first-round picks, how do you trade up then? What happens if Rodgers retires or stays, hamstringing the organization's ability to re-sign players or be involved in free agency? BTW; You can't fix the OL after acquiring him this year without the assets lost to get him.