Poll: Who Was the Greater Player of His Generation, Kobe Bryant or Tim Duncan?

[fordman84]

Apparently we have 9 homers.

 

[fordman84]

When were things not going Duncan's way?

never, because he never crippled the team with his "pay me" attitude. he took less to allow the Spurs to get better guys around him.

 

[Win TWINS!!!]

Ricky Davis

Jr Rider.

Both played for the Wolves at one point or another.

 

[gordontrue]

I'm probably wrong. Maybe I'm allowing Duncan's aversion to the limelight cloud my view. Maybe I don't attribute enough of what the Spurs organization has become to Duncan. Maybe I'm letting the "flash" disparity have too much of a say.

But my gut reaction is Kobe. Duncan is more accomplished and was more consistently successful. He has been the backbone of an incredible organization. But, to me, it just feels like Kobe was the greater player.

 

[jontaejones]

Pretty close call in my book.

Both had their flaws and neither were unbeatable.

As a previous poster mentioned, as a Nets fan, I felt we had a chance against either guy, but against Shaq, there was no way we could win.

So ... that's where my vote goes, even though his window was shorter.

 

[shopson67]

never, because he never crippled the team with his "pay me" attitude. he took less to allow the Spurs to get better guys around him.

He's quite not the cap angel you make him out to be.

$236.4 million: Career playing salary for Duncan, which ranks third all-time in the NBA behind Kevin Garnett ($326M) and Kobe Bryant ($323M) per Spotrac.

Kobe didn't leave the Lakers with any residual salary either.

Lakers were never starved for cap space either. They willingly paid whatever it took over the cap and over the luxury tax threshold.

 

[shopson67]

My whole point is that things have always gone Duncan's way because he is such a great teammate and a positive leader. He truly elevated the players and coaches around him, empowering them to be their best.

Kobe tore teammates apart and was never willing to sacrifice for the betterment of the team. He was as competitive as anybody, but on his own terms.

He was never asked to sacrifice and didn't need to because of LA's market advantage and deep pockets.

 

[Clayton]

The big difference between the two in advanced stats is that if you compare win shares per 48, Duncan has the top 5 seasons. If you compare usage percentage, Kobe has the top 14 seasons. Duncan was more efficient and meant more to winning basketball games. Kobe was used more and needed more. Kobe's 'clutch' stats being awful and the fact that the 'Kobe assist' is a thing speaks volumes but Kobe was also the face of the NBA for awhile.

My personal bias is to always pick the 'big' player over the small player, too. I don't think Lakers fans should feel slighted if everyone else thinks Duncan was better. Shaq would've been better than Duncan and probably almost anyone else if he could've just kept in the league and actually learned how to shoot FTs at least a little bit.

 

[Wamu]

my gut reaction is Kobe.

Spoiler

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Apparently we have 9 homers.

In this case yes, so what?

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

never, because he never crippled the team with his "pay me" attitude. he took less to allow the Spurs to get better guys around him.

When did Kobe demand to "get paid"?

 

[Sportsguy9695]

Timmy Duncan hands down/ didnt need to even think twice about that

 

[Rockinkuwait]

He was never asked to sacrifice and didn't need to because of LA's market advantage and deep pockets.

I don't think he was talking about just financially. Kobe made what? 70 mil more than Duncan the last 4 years. I think you can point to that as the reason LA didn't have the cap space to build around like SA has had. LA had to make trade aquisitions rather than find the best FA's.

But really what I think he was talking about was when it was passing the torch or sharing the top role. Duncan was able to sacrifice and play with guys like Parker and Kawhi later on to win. Kobe wanted to be the top dog and get his 16 wins.

When did Kobe demand to "get paid"?

“For me to sit here and say, ‘Oh yeah, I’m just going to take a huge pay cut. Nah, I’m going to try to get as much as I possibly can.”

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

“For me to sit here and say, ‘Oh yeah, I’m just going to take a huge pay cut. Nah, I’m going to try to get as much as I possibly can.”

Big difference between "try to get paid" and "demand to get paid"

Good attempt though...

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Big difference between "try to get paid" and "demand to get paid"

Good attempt though...

Kinda dead on the topic. The point brought up was Duncan took less to help the team around him.. Evidenced clearly towards the end of his career.

I think his exact words after that when he was being asked if he would even take a little paycut was "I'm not taking any at all, that's the negotiation you have to have".

So if talking "demand" vs. "try" I'd say going into negotiations saying "I'm not taking any paycut at all" (his exact words) would fit that "demand" as clearly as humanly possible.

When talking about a "pay me attitude", the actual topic of that post, that quote there was pretty much a dictionary definition for that term.

Good attempt trying to bring it off that topic though...

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

So if talking "demand" vs. "try" I'd say going into negotiations saying "I'm not taking any paycut at all" (his exact words) would fit that "demand" as clearly as humanly possible.

No.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

No.

lol... really? Kobe talking about how he goes into negotiations pushing for the most money possible isn't a "pay me" attitude...

Come on bud. It's ok. I know you're a die hard Kobe can do no wrong fan. Kobe could have walked in there with a gun to Kupchak's head threatening to kill him if he didn't get his max deal and you'd be sitting here now crying "he didn't load it that I saw, so he wasn't really pushing for a max deal... "


And to be honest, playing for the biggest salary he can get is fine. No problem there. He won titles, making his financial future key is perfectly fine with me.

But when the guy says:

“(Hometown discounts are) absolutely brilliant, but I’m not going for it."
"I'm not taking any paycut at all"
" I’m going to try to get as much as I possibly can.”
"Owners win when players feel pressured to take less money. It’s absolutely brilliant. But I’m not going for it."

I can't spin that any other way than he's going for the most money he can get. Plain and simple. I can't let the color of the players jersey take me out of reality there.

that is the exact polar opposite of taking less to let a team add free agents under the cap. Really what NBA players have made stronger statements that getting the financial max was utterly important to them?


So

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

lol... really? Kobe talking about how he goes into negotiations pushing for the most money possible isn't a "pay me" attitude...

Come on bud. It's ok. I know you're a die hard Kobe can do no wrong fan. Kobe could have walked in there with a gun to Kupchak's head threatening to kill him if he didn't get his max deal and you'd be sitting here now crying "he didn't load it that I saw, so he wasn't really pushing for a max deal... "


And to be honest, playing for the biggest salary he can get is fine. No problem there. He won titles, making his financial future key is perfectly fine with me.

But when the guy says:

“(Hometown discounts are) absolutely brilliant, but I’m not going for it."
"I'm not taking any paycut at all"
" I’m going to try to get as much as I possibly can.”
"Owners win when players feel pressured to take less money. It’s absolutely brilliant. But I’m not going for it."

I can't spin that any other way than he's going for the most money he can get. Plain and simple. I can't let the color of the players jersey take me out of reality there.

that is the exact polar opposite of taking less to let a team add free agents under the cap. Really what NBA players have made stronger statements that getting the financial max was utterly important to them?


So

No, not really that big of a Kobe fan actually. If you paid a little bit of attention what happens around here you'd know I said that multiple times. But I get it, someone sticks up for Kobe and instantly she's labeled as a 'die-hard fan'.

Again, in what world is "I'm not taking anything less than i've earned already" the same as "I want MORE money".

But here's a fun little exercise for you. When you go in to work on Monday, walk in to your bosses office and say "I'M NOT TAKING ANYTHING LESS THAN YOU'VE ALREADY BEEN PAYING ME!".
Then a week later go in and say "I DEMAND A PAY RISE"

Let me know if your bosses reaction is the same. According to you it should be!

 

[Rockinkuwait]

No, not really that big of a Kobe fan actually. If you paid a little bit of attention what happens around here you'd know I said that multiple times. But I get it, someone sticks up for Kobe and instantly she's labeled as a 'die-hard fan'.





Again, in what world is "I'm not taking anything less than i've earned already" the same as "I want MORE money".

But here's a fun little exercise for you. When you go in to work on Monday, walk in to your bosses office and say "I'M NOT TAKING ANYTHING LESS THAN YOU'VE ALREADY BEEN PAYING ME!".
Then a week later go in and say "I DEMAND A PAY RISE"

You literally are responding about Kobe saying I won't take less when I called you out about responding to you calling out "he took less to allow the Spurs to get better guys around him."


Thanks for proving the point that Duncan took less to allow the Spurs to get better guys around him while Kobe clearly did not. That was all I was saying. That was completely clear at the ends of their respective careers. Duncan wanted to win, Kobe wanted to get paid his value. No problem with either choice.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

You literally are responding about Kobe saying I won't take less when I called you out about responding to you calling out "he took less to allow the Spurs to get better guys around him."


Thanks for proving the point that Duncan took less to allow the Spurs to get better guys around him while Kobe clearly did not. That was all I was saying. That was completely clear at the ends of their respective careers. Duncan wanted to win, Kobe wanted to get paid his value. No problem with either choice.

When the hell was I comparing either players willingness to take a pay cut to accommodate their teams flexibility?

I'll start again slowly for those (you) who haven't quite caught up with the rest of us:

I said: "When did Kobe demand to get paid".

That's all, nothing more, nothing less. I wasn't comparing commitment to team, selfishness, dick size etc, I just wanted to know when Kobe demanded a pay rise!

Well done to you for trying though!