Poll: Who Was the Greater Player of His Generation, Kobe Bryant or Tim Duncan?

[Rockinkuwait]

I gave you two!

You named people. One who's taken multiple paycuts, and the other who never was the top paid guy like Kobe worked out his deals for.

Nice try. Can you even find the quotes to match? Or did you just pick names out of a hat, and wish it to be true??? Come on, actual proof here? You wanted it, and I gave you the quotes and the salaries. Your turn to back up your statements here.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

You have to be kidding right.

You are literally trying to say "getting paid" is the guy who plays for league minimum at the end to try for a ring, the guy who cuts his salary multiple times to get better players there.

Not the guy who every fucking year makes sure he's the highest paid player in the league right to the very end.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

A pay raise over what??? I would say get paid means being in the top 5 or so in salary right??? Kobe's been:

Highest paid player in the entire NBA in 2015? Kobe Bryant
Highest paid player in the entire NBA in 2014? Kobe Bryant
Highest paid player in the entire NBA in 2013? Kobe Bryant
Highest paid player in the entire NBA in 2012? Kobe Bryant
Highest paid player in the entire NBA in 2011? Kobe Bryant
Highest paid player in the entire NBA in 2010? Kobe Bryant
Highest paid player in the entire NBA in 2009? Kobe Bryant


I think that's ensuring you are getting paid. I think that's a get paid mentality.


Are you arguing getting paid the most every. single. year. isn't enough. It has to be getting paid a SHITLOAD MORE THAN EVERYONE ELSE?

Seriously... Kobe 2 years ago made 8 million more than anyone else in the league. How is making 30% more than the next highest player not "getting paid"..


And you come back with Wade? The guy who took paycuts on multiple contracts. Come on. You have to be joking right?

You know why he got paid that much? BECAUSE THE LAKERS OFFERED HIM THAT. Remember his last two years where he got paid close to $50m? Kobe didn't demand it, the Lakers OFFERED him it.

So I ask again, despite him being the best paid player in the league, which the Lakers offered him, WHEN DID KOBE DEMAND TO GET PAID/ DEMAND A PAY RAISE?

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

You named people. One who's taken multiple paycuts, and the other who never was the top paid guy like Kobe worked out his deals for.

Nice try. Can you even find the quotes to match? Or did you just pick names out of a hat, and wish it to be true??? Come on, actual proof here? You wanted it, and I gave you the quotes and the salaries. Your turn to back up your statements here.

Sources: Wade eyes $50M deal; Heat offer $40M

Happened like 2 weeks ago.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

You know why he got paid that much? BECAUSE THE LAKERS OFFERED HIM THAT. Remember his last two years where he got paid close to $50m? Kobe didn't demand it, the Lakers OFFERED him it.

So I ask again, despite him being the best paid player in the league, which the Lakers offered him, WHEN DID KOBE DEMAND TO GET PAID/ DEMAND A PAY RAISE?

lol. Yeah.. because Kobe was ok with less.. Wait NO HE WASN'T as he said in those quotes. Were you in those negotiations? Because unless you were, now you are just guessing they were 100% fine with giving him that.


Quick. Name the player who got more than the team offered to him? The guy where the team said "we will offer you 20 million" And he just took 25 million without the team offering more.




Sure Duncan could have gotten more as well. So could Wade have if he didn't want to get Lebron and others to join. Yes, lots of players get offered a max deal. The guys that want to max out their income, take it, well past their primes.

You literally are trying to say Wade is worse by voluntarily taking paycuts. lol Do you see how crazy you are trying to get to name names?

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Well it's been extremely interesting @Rockinkuwait but I have better things to do on my saturday than argue with people who don't know shit and then make things up.

Enjoy your weekend sweetheart.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Sources: Wade eyes $50M deal; Heat offer $40M

Happened like 2 weeks ago.

And still nowhere near what Kobe was eyeing for his last two years... And Wade took less.. Nice try...

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Well it's been extremely interesting @Rockinkuwait but I have better things to do on my saturday than argue with people who don't know shit and then make things up.

Enjoy your weekend sweetheart.

No prob hun.. Maybe once you come back to reality and quit changing your stance every 5 minutes we can have a real talk.


Seriously.. Kobe gets paid the most in the NBA in his final year. Shaq plays for the league minimum for his. And Kobe is the one not in it for the money at the end. I couldn't make that up if I tried. Wade... The guy that took less to get elite teammates multiple times in his career is the example of getting paid, while the guy actually getting paid nearly twice as much some years isn't. lol.

Kobe literally said he's in it to try and be the highest paid player he can be. but he's lying lol.

You seem like the kind of person who could sit there and argue for hours that Bill Gates is poor if he wore a Laker jersey and it helped your cause. Gotta be fun to be that blinded by homerism.

 

[handicappers]

Well it's been extremely interesting @Rockinkuwait but I have better things to do on my saturday than argue with people who don't know shit and then make things up.

Enjoy your weekend sweetheart.

Rock actually does "know his shit" and thoroughly owned you in this debate. It's a good thing you're quitting cause it's quiet embarrassing.

 

[Kold]

Tim Duncan is legendary, bar none.....but I went with Kobe here. I don't feel like going into ALL of the reasons, but ONE of them is that Duncan NEVER had to face the type of adversity that Kobe had to face throughout his career

 

[Kold]

And also, let me debunk this Kobe held up the Lakers for money mess. Let's look at Duncan first. You can't tell me that Duncan got to the negotiating table for his contract and opened the discussion with "hey don't pay that much money". I'm MORE than willing to bet that SA's front office came to him and showed him the vision of what the team could be if he took a certain amount of money, and Duncan obliged.
When it comes to Kobe, he was making 30 mill., and front office came to him with the vision being "if you can come down to 24 mill., we can still have the space to get Lebron James and Carmelo Anthony". So guess what? Kobe obliged, and the front office has been striking out on their plans ever since. The "oh Duncan took less, Kobe didn't" argument has always been crap to me, because the argument should of always been that SA's front office had a much more likely plan to work, than our front office did.

 

[Kold]

And before anyone says where's the proof...first there's an article in which Kobe said that "this wasn't a negotiation, the Lakers got what they wanted and I took the first offer". However, if that's not enough, here's this...
"The source also said that the Buss family was unified in wanting to see Bryant remain as the league's highest paid player"
Lakers sign Kobe to 2-year contract extension

 

[Wamu]

Tim Duncan is legendary, bar none.....but I went with Kobe here. I don't feel like going into ALL of the reasons, but ONE of them is that Duncan NEVER had to face the type of adversity that Kobe had to face throughout his career

Duncan has more League MVP's, more Finals MVP's, a better Finals record, went to the playoffs every year, never had a losing season, finished # 1 all time in playoff double-double's & # 2 in playoff wins. Kobe had a great career but TD had an even better one.

 

[tducey]

Kobe

 

[handicappers]

Tim Duncan is legendary, bar none.....but I went with Kobe here. I don't feel like going into ALL of the reasons, but ONE of them is that Duncan NEVER had to face the type of adversity that Kobe had to face throughout his career

You mean Court appearances in Colorado? Yeah, Duncan never had to do that.

 

[Kold]

Duncan has more League MVP's, more Finals MVP's, a better Finals record, went to the playoffs every year, never had a losing season, finished # 1 all time in playoff double-double's & # 2 in playoff wins. Kobe had a great career but TD had an even better one.

I guess I should clarify, from an accomplishment standpoint, Duncan is technically better....but looking at said accomplishments(and I don't mean to makes excuses or take away from Duncan in any means), but first looking at the mvp's, I thought Kobe got robbed out of the one that Steve Nash won, but that's another story for another day. Also, in the early, to mid 2000 years, it was always going to be hard to get an MVP playing alongside Shaq.

As for the Finals MVP's, I always thought that the whole Kobe's rings doesn't count because he didn't get the MVP was so overrated, because in 2 of those 3, three peat years, Kobe was statiscally either on, beyond, on near the level of Shaq against the West depending on what games we're talking about. It's why I always say that Kobe/Shaq was 1A and 1B. He also guarded speedy point guards that Derek Fisher couldn't handle at times as well. However, while Shaq dominated everyone, when it came to the Finals, the opposing centers were Rik Smiths, Jason Collins, and an old Mutombo. Shaq was going to put up GOAT numbers no matter what, but when those guys oppose a prime Shaq, he has no choice but to get the Finals MVP. Kobe still played extremely well in those Finals, but hey, it's tough to blame him for losing out the MVP to a prime Shaq.

As for Finals record, there are some qualifiers when it comes to those losses against Detroit and Boston. First Malone got hurt, and Payton was a mess in the triangle offense, and also that team was the most dysfunctional team I have ever seen, but in the end I always gave credit to Detroit. They deserved to win that year. As for Boston, no Bynum/Ariza/Odom was a no show, but once again, Boston deserved it that year.

As for Duncan never having a losing season, here's where my adversity claim comes into play. Duncan has played for the same coach, gm, and owner(I think) for his entire career. Kobe has been through a ton of coaches, had to watch Jerry West get run out of town, and had to live with Jim Buss having more control of the team(and Jim has had a lot of control over this team far before Jerry Buss passed away). Duncan has also never had to go through a rebuilding process as well.
As for playoff wins, the Spurs have definitely been consistent throughout these years, but there have been situations in which everyone doesn't criticize the Spurs(and Duncan), as much as they would the Lakers/Kobe. Losing to the Grizzlies/Clippers in the first round amongst other things tend to get looked over as opposed to the criticism that Kobe receives when the Lakers lost in past years

Edit-Jeez, sorry for the long winded post

 

[Wamu]

I guess I should clarify, from an accomplishment standpoint, Duncan is technically better....but looking at said accomplishments(and I don't mean to makes excuses or take away from Duncan in any means), but first looking at the mvp's, I thought Kobe got robbed out of the one that Steve Nash won, but that's another story for another day. Also, in the early, to mid 2000 years, it was always going to be hard to get an MVP playing alongside Shaq.

As for the Finals MVP's, I always thought that the whole Kobe's rings doesn't count because he didn't get the MVP was so overrated, because in 2 of those 3, three peat years, Kobe was statiscally either on, beyond, on near the level of Shaq against the West depending on what games we're talking about. It's why I always say that Kobe/Shaq was 1A and 1B. He also guarded speedy point guards that Derek Fisher couldn't handle at times as well. However, while Shaq dominated everyone, when it came to the Finals, the opposing centers were Rik Smiths, Jason Collins, and an old Mutombo. Shaq was going to put up GOAT numbers no matter what, but when those guys oppose a prime Shaq, he has no choice but to get the Finals MVP. Kobe still played extremely well in those Finals, but hey, it's tough to blame him for losing out the MVP to a prime Shaq.

As for Finals record, there are some qualifiers when it comes to those losses against Detroit and Boston. First Malone got hurt, and Payton was a mess in the triangle offense, and also that team was the most dysfunctional team I have ever seen, but in the end I always gave credit to Detroit. They deserved to win that year. As for Boston, no Bynum/Ariza/Odom was a no show, but once again, Boston deserved it that year.

As for Duncan never having a losing season, here's where my adversity claim comes into play. Duncan has played for the same coach, gm, and owner(I think) for his entire career. Kobe has been through a ton of coaches, had to watch Jerry West get run out of town, and had to live with Jim Buss having more control of the team(and Jim has had a lot of control over this team far before Jerry Buss passed away). Duncan has also never had to go through a rebuilding process as well.
As for playoff wins, the Spurs have definitely been consistent throughout these years, but there have been situations in which everyone doesn't criticize the Spurs(and Duncan), as much as they would the Lakers/Kobe. Losing to the Grizzlies/Clippers in the first round amongst other things tend to get looked over as opposed to the criticism that Kobe receives when the Lakers lost in past years

Edit-Jeez, sorry for the long winded post

Let's just agree to disagree.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

And also, let me debunk this Kobe held up the Lakers for money mess. Let's look at Duncan first. You can't tell me that Duncan got to the negotiating table for his contract and opened the discussion with "hey don't pay that much money". I'm MORE than willing to bet that SA's front office came to him and showed him the vision of what the team could be if he took a certain amount of money, and Duncan obliged.
When it comes to Kobe, he was making 30 mill., and front office came to him with the vision being "if you can come down to 24 mill., we can still have the space to get Lebron James and Carmelo Anthony". So guess what? Kobe obliged, and the front office has been striking out on their plans ever since. The "oh Duncan took less, Kobe didn't" argument has always been crap to me, because the argument should of always been that SA's front office had a much more likely plan to work, than our front office did.

I'm not saying he held them up for money. Just like I am not saying the Spurs held Duncan up for less money. I am saying he said over and over he wouldn't take less than his value for the "hometown discount" or the team. He "came down" to be the most expensive player over the past two years in the NBA at that age with that declining skill set. Don't tell me anyone got a financial discount there.

Just because they didn't have tough negotiations about paying him anything less than the most of any player in the NBA doesn't mean when he would sign contracts to be the highest paid player every single year wasn't about him getting paid well. He said that was his goal MANY TIMES as I've quoted him.

And it didn't work, you are right, and I don't blame him for maximizing his value instead of really trying to cut his cap hit to sign enough FA's to compete. Because Dirk did that and it failed to work for him. I have no problem with him sitting there and accepting the most money anyone was getting after that achilles tear. Most stars take a lot less than their actual value. He took it. No issue with that.

Sorry but I can't sit here and pretend that Kobe taking the biggest salary in the NBA is a sign of him taking a cap friendly deal to help the team, when in actuality, not a single player in the league took a less cap friendly deal for their team.

I also am trying to make the cap space work. So Lakers.com did a couple stories on FA with Kobe's new contract, and both were saying if they gutted the roster, moved every single player they could get out from under, they would have about 23 mil in cap space. So yes... they could "get lebron and Carmelo"... If both of them agreed to play for less than half what Kobe was making. I'm sorry, but can we stick to fact here instead of these made up idea's?

 

[WiggyRuss]

there are a lot of different ways to quantiy "greater"

however..

if I was the owner of an NBA team and Kobe and Timmy were at the top of the draft class and i had the #1 pick- id take Duncan.

 

[Kold]

I'm not saying he held them up for money. Just like I am not saying the Spurs held Duncan up for less money. I am saying he said over and over he wouldn't take less than his value for the "hometown discount" or the team. He "came down" to be the most expensive player over the past two years in the NBA at that age with that declining skill set. Don't tell me anyone got a financial discount there.

Just because they didn't have tough negotiations about paying him anything less than the most of any player in the NBA doesn't mean when he would sign contracts to be the highest paid player every single year wasn't about him getting paid well. He said that was his goal MANY TIMES as I've quoted him.

And it didn't work, you are right, and I don't blame him for maximizing his value instead of really trying to cut his cap hit to sign enough FA's to compete. Because Dirk did that and it failed to work for him. I have no problem with him sitting there and accepting the most money anyone was getting after that achilles tear. Most stars take a lot less than their actual value. He took it. No issue with that.

Sorry but I can't sit here and pretend that Kobe taking the biggest salary in the NBA is a sign of him taking a cap friendly deal to help the team, when in actuality, not a single player in the league took a less cap friendly deal for their team.

I also am trying to make the cap space work. So Lakers.com did a couple stories on FA with Kobe's new contract, and both were saying if they gutted the roster, moved every single player they could get out from under, they would have about 23 mil in cap space. So yes... they could "get lebron and Carmelo"... If both of them agreed to play for less than half what Kobe was making. I'm sorry, but can we stick to fact here instead of these made up idea's?

Kobe has scoffed at the term "hometown discount" before, because he looked at it as the owners pocketing money...but at the end of the day, our front office's GOAL was to get him at 24 million. That was the number that they wanted right from the get go. We can't say that he ultimately wouldn't have just taken a lesser contract in a negotiation, because the Lakers never even gave him a vision behind taking less/never even asked him to take less than 24 million. Also, when I say they "came down" on Kobe's contract, I totally mean it in a sarcastic way by the way. And as for that last tid-bit about Melo and Lebron, it just goes to show the crazy thinking of our front office. Trust me, the plan that they had was to get Melo and Lebron. They just had their minds set that bringing Kobe "down" to 24 mill, would be enough for them to get Melo and Lebron at a certain price