politics thread

[gkekoa]

You know i agree the system is rigged against all the people you just mentioned. But no one is coming here to live off your taxes. Most and I would say damn near all are coming here for a better opportunity. And the majority of people living off your taxes were born here.

So, let me ask you this...what happens when those opportunities are gone for US citizens because the job market is completely saturated with people willing to work for a lower wage from a foreign country? Eventually, you will run out of opportunity, and then the American people do not flourish.

 

[gkekoa]

The same kind the "Illegals" are doing now. Most go into hospitality services, construction, cooking, cleaning. Some will strive for more.

And when those jobs are all taken and we still have more coming in?

 

[Stymietee]

Do you have an actual statement that drugs come through checkpoints more frequently? How can we determine this if we can’t actually track and stop those coming through non-checkpoints?

Has anybody suggested a wall through the Rio Grande?

Really? What message is that? That we are a sovereign nation with legal borders? How has the liberal way worked at stopping illegal crossing of our border? It hasn’t.

1. Will Trump's Wall Stop Drug Smuggling? - FactCheck.org
   https://www.factcheck.org/2017/08/will-trumps-wall-stop-drug-smuggling
   In addition to the fact that most drugs come through legal ports of entry, Reuter said that smugglers have a long history of adapting to law enforcement’s attempts to stop the flow of illegal drugs.
   
   
2. El Chapo smuggled drugs though legal checkpoints along U.S ...
   https://www.newsweek.com/el-chapo-smuggled-drugs-though-legal...
   Those who have worked with Guzmán have testified that they often utilized legal checkpoints to smuggle ... analyze and search more thoroughly,” John ... smuggled drugs through legal checkpoints ...
   
   
3. Most hard drugs get smuggled into the U.S. through ports ...
   https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/border-issues/2019/...
   However, customs agents also seized more than 67,000 pounds of methamphetamine smuggled through the ports of entry. Meanwhile, border agents seized nearly 10,300 pounds of meth last year.
   

 

[Sharkinva]

So...if you are told to wait in line, the answer is cross illegally? Got it. If you can’t have your way when you want it, you simply take what you want.

Work where? Doing it your way, when do we run out of jobs for them?

Why can’t they work to make their own countries better?

If the line were equal and not based on suspect reasoning it likely wouldnt be a problem.

Odds are we will never run out of jobs for them, because as a population grows, the need for construction and infrastructure jobs grows with it.

Why cant people who lived in Detroit stay there and make it better?? Because you go where opportunity is.

 

[gkekoa]

Trump needs to stop being so damned envious of Obama and go back to the policies/measures Obama had in place that actually created a net zero border crossing. Then he needs to actually do some work involving the shit that's causing people to flee their homes and attempt to find safety here. How about that?

Net zero border crossing is hilarious. First off, it simply means the economy was so bad fewer people wanted to come here and more wanted to leave.

Then, I have to ask...how can that possibly be verified? If people are crossing illegally, then how do we track them? Can we possibly get an accurate number?

 

[Stymietee]

Who pays for these extra points of entry and the man power required for them?

What form of identification is required?

How do we verify their information?

How do we follow up on them not overstaying their welcome?

What happens when they do overstay their welcome?

Should there be a limit to the amount of people coming in?

Is there a legal requirement they need to meet?

Who can sponsor them?

Is the sponsor liable for their actions?

Can the sponsor accept money from them to come here?

How do we verify sponsors are not accepting money?

Is there a limit to the number of people a sponsor can sponsor?

How about making Mexico taking care of all of this? Oh how soon we forget!

 

[Stymietee]

Net zero border crossing is hilarious. First off, it simply means the economy was so bad fewer people wanted to come here and more wanted to leave.

Then, I have to ask...how can that possibly be verified? If people are crossing illegally, then how do we track them? Can we possibly get an accurate number?

Are you Ok ole' friend? I truly have come to expect better from you!

BTW: if there's a way to report that X number of people have illegally crossed, there must have been a way to count them, right? If you can count them then you must know...aw fuck it!

 

[gkekoa]

Now the answer has to be multi-fold. First there has to be enforcement and massive fines to all who hire and use migrant workers, legal and otherwise. This must be followed by strict competitive wage enforcement to the same, a pathway to citizenship for those who want to stay and are currently not registered as legal migrants. Finally, institute some form of nationalized health care that finally helps reduce inflated costs of things in hospitals that were put into place to make up for absorbing costs associated with the uninsured.

I know that U.S. citizens love to buy cheap things but at some point this country is going to have to tackle the true underlying reasons why we continue to have this problem. The greatness in this country has always been it's ability to self correct and that's been true long before red hats came into vogue.

Totally agree with point one and have said so for a long time...to include personal assets for aiding a crime.

You have to be more clear on competitive wage enforcement.

Why should people who have come here illegally, as adults, be given a pathway to citizenship?

We already have people south of the border flaunting our health care system. Your answer is to nationalize it so more people can come here for free access. This is what is actually occurring in many foreign nations.

Yes...so the self-correction is to move totally away from what made this country great...competition and capitalism. If I make it, I can keep it. It only led to more creation and medical miracles than any system in sure, let’s take away the incentive to create.

 

[Stymietee]

And that stops some one from simply walking though non points of entry how ?

Wall or drones, you're going to need people, right? What's going on tonight, are posters here so engrossed in pre-free agency fever that the focus is gone? I know that NFL free agency is silly season, but damn, there are a lot of not well thought out post tonight.

 

[gkekoa]

Are you Ok ole' friend? I truly have come to expect better from you!

BTW: if there's a way to report that X number of people have illegally crossed, there must have been a way to count them, right? If you can count them then you must know...aw fuck it!

Hold on...so you believe we apprehend every illegal crosser? You can only count those you catch.

 

[Sharkinva]

So, let me ask you this...what happens when those opportunities are gone for US citizens because the job market is completely saturated with people willing to work for a lower wage from a foreign country? Eventually, you will run out of opportunity, and then the American people do not flourish.

Odd that someone who is so adamant about a meritocracy, feels that we should be preserving opportunities for people based on where they happen to be born. Fact is, if those Americans cant do the job as well as the imports, they dont merit those jobs in the first place.

 

[gkekoa]

If the line were equal and not based on suspect reasoning it likely wouldnt be a problem.

Odds are we will never run out of jobs for them, because as a population grows, the need for construction and infrastructure jobs grows with it.

Why cant people who lived in Detroit stay there and make it better?? Because you go where opportunity is.

Suspect reasoning? Like we don’t need you?

But at what point do we end up overcrowded?

Yes...as an American citizen, you are free to travel your own country in search of opportunity.

 

[Sharkinva]

And when those jobs are all taken and we still have more coming in?

Actually as population increases, the need for those jobs increases with them. You ever notice that McDonalds builds stores where the population can support a profitable location. Hell in some areas you can go 2 miles and find an McDonalds in every direction.

 

[Sharkinva]

Suspect reasoning? Like we don’t need you?

But at what point do we end up overcrowded?

Yes...as an American citizen, you are free to travel your own country in search of opportunity.

We dont NEED any of the people from the countries listed below. So please explain why these countries are on the Visa waiver program and can travel to the US without first asking permission???

• Andorra
• Australia
• Austria
• Belgium
• Brunei
• Chile
• Czech Republic
• Denmark
• Estonia
• Finland
• France
• Germany
• Greece
• Hungary
• Iceland
• Ireland
• Italy
• Japan
• Republic of Korea
• Latvia
• Liechtenstein
• Lithuania
• Luxembourg
• Malta
• Monaco
• Netherlands
• New Zealand
• Norway
• Portugal
• San Marino
• Singapore
• Slovakia
• Slovenia
• Spain
• Sweden
• Switzerland
• Taiwan**
• United Kingdom*

 

[gkekoa]

1. Will Trump's Wall Stop Drug Smuggling? - FactCheck.org
   https://www.factcheck.org/2017/08/will-trumps-wall-stop-drug-smuggling
   In addition to the fact that most drugs come through legal ports of entry, Reuter said that smugglers have a long history of adapting to law enforcement’s attempts to stop the flow of illegal drugs.
   
   
2. El Chapo smuggled drugs though legal checkpoints along U.S ...
   https://www.newsweek.com/el-chapo-smuggled-drugs-though-legal...
   Those who have worked with Guzmán have testified that they often utilized legal checkpoints to smuggle ... analyze and search more thoroughly,” John ... smuggled drugs through legal checkpoints ...
   
   
3. Most hard drugs get smuggled into the U.S. through ports ...
   https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/border-issues/2019/...
   However, customs agents also seized more than 67,000 pounds of methamphetamine smuggled through the ports of entry. Meanwhile, border agents seized nearly 10,300 pounds of meth last year.

1- Again, how do you know where most come through? If you actually knew, they wouldn’t make it through.

2- Nobody has ever claimed drugs don’t get smuggled through legal ports.

3- Again, this is what we seized at legal ports. So now explain how you account the Amount of drugs smuggled over the legal points we didn’t catch.

You see...if we funneled drugs to the legal ports of entry by making it harder if not impossible to get through the illegal ports, then we can seize even more at legal ports. Seizure is the key.

 

[gkekoa]

We dont NEED any of the people from the countries listed below. So please explain why these countries are on the Visa waiver program and can travel to the US without first asking permission???

• Andorra
• Australia
• Austria
• Belgium
• Brunei
• Chile
• Czech Republic
• Denmark
• Estonia
• Finland
• France
• Germany
• Greece
• Hungary
• Iceland
• Ireland
• Italy
• Japan
• Republic of Korea
• Latvia
• Liechtenstein
• Lithuania
• Luxembourg
• Malta
• Monaco
• Netherlands
• New Zealand
• Norway
• Portugal
• San Marino
• Singapore
• Slovakia
• Slovenia
• Spain
• Sweden
• Switzerland
• Taiwan**
• United Kingdom*

Mexicans can too I do believe...legally. Go through the port of entry with proper identification. I could be wrong.

 

[Sharkinva]

Mexicans can too I do believe...legally. Go through the port of entry with proper identification. I could be wrong.

NOpe, you're wrong. I pulled that list directly from CBPs website

Frequently Asked Questions about the Visa Waiver Program (VWP) and the Electronic System for Travel Authorization (ESTA) | U.S. Customs and Border Protection

 

[j_y19]

The same kind the "Illegals" are doing now. Most go into hospitality services, construction, cooking, cleaning. Some will strive for more.

Would you agree that there is a finite number of these jobs? Do you think the that that segment of the work force is growing by 10000 jobs a month? Because that is what needs to happen to keep up with demand.

It sounds ideal, but its not realistic.

 

[Sharkinva]

Would you agree that there is a finite number of these jobs? Do you think the that that segment of the work force is growing by 10000 jobs a month? Because that is what needs to happen to keep up with demand.

It sounds ideal, but its not realistic.

As i stated before, that segment of jobs does actually grow in relation to total population. As more people come here or are born, more homes are built, more restaurants are opened, more farmers expand their fields. Roads are expanded.

 

[Stymietee]

Totally agree with point one and have said so for a long time...to include personal assets for aiding a crime.

You have to be more clear on competitive wage enforcement.

Why should people who have come here illegally, as adults, be given a pathway to citizenship?

We already have people south of the border flaunting our health care system. Your answer is to nationalize it so more people can come here for free access. This is what is actually occurring in many foreign nations.

Yes...so the self-correction is to move totally away from what made this country great...competition and capitalism. If I make it, I can keep it. It only led to more creation and medical miracles than any system in sure, let’s take away the incentive to create.

Competitive enforcement = in line with our current wage scale but above minimum wages. There has to be a way to pay for the workers without raising the prices on fruits and veggies too much. Currently there are business that have no issue in paying for cheap undocumented workers, making sure that they stop doing this... that is the enforcement part.

A pathway to citizenship does some things for this country, it drastically cuts the number of undocumented workers currently in country. Takes away the political divisive nature of the issue, increases the number of taxable workers, puts the country back on track regarding immigration, and so much more. In effect, it eliminates the problem of those currently in country.

Our current system is unsustainable, that is a fact, for a country that built its reputation upon answering the call on questions that adversly affects its people, surely we can create a system that takes the best of the rest, put that U.S. spin on it and come up with a system that the rest of the world envies. BTW: Free access to health care in other countries is another reason why we should have it here. They don't come because they want to abuse ours, but because they don't have it and need it.

I think that you are unaware of what's made this country great, (no insult intended) the truth is that this country is not one built on "competition and capitalism" alone. This country is a mix of socialism, capitalism but not a free market capitalism. It is a mixed market economy. Without going into some detail it is in effect a hybrid Republic that also employs a hybrid form of capitalism. Any info that you have that refutes this, even though it doesn't exist, I will gladly read.