Please, no more CK7 vs. Smith debates

[clyde_carbon]

:mmph: You are right that's 2 out of 25 attempts that were unlike Smith, also the interception and the throw to Moss in the endzone. So that's 4 (two good, two bad) out of 25 that were unlike Smith.

Point is it wasn't all that different. Like I said though Kaep had a good game. He has been impressive in his first two starts.

I don't you or others understand the notion that Kaep can make throws that Alex Smith doesn't. Nobody is saying Alex Smith can never hit a 25 yard deep out route under any circumstance. Under perfect conditions, and IF he's willing to attempt it, he could. A lot of NFL QBs could. The difference is Kaepernick can makes these throws from difference platforms, from in and outside the pocket, and with defenders in his face. Alex Smith can't make these throws. Smith would've even attempt those throws.

 

[MHSL82]

He was on the outside the entire time. How did Smith possibly expect him to break to the inside?

Watch San Francisco 49ers vs. Baltimore Ravens [11/24/2011] - NFL.com

At the time he decided to release the ball it didn't look like he could know for sure, but I would assume the outside. Maybe in practice he goes inside? I don't know. Either way, while the INT is on Smith, that's what it looked like he thought and what he said he thought, so the throw was thrown to the wrong spot. He was miked for that game and he went to Edwards to tell him he expected him to go inside.

My clarification of being underthrown was incorrect. What I meant was that it wasn't underthrown as in armstrength or velocity, as in a badly underthrown fade. Rather, it was a bad judgment. I don't even think you were talking about armstrength/velocity per se, so I wasn't actually arguing with you; I was just saying it wasn't underthrown in that way. It was thrown where he intended on it going to where he threw it, but he was wrong in his judgment.

Obviously, the connection to Kaep's throw was because both were thrown to where they intended to throw the ball, but they were to the wrong location for a catch. I guess, I incorrectly tied your "underthrown" comment to armstrength/velocity in regards to Smith's throw to Edwards (obviously I wouldn't think that in regards to Kaep's throw).

 

[clyde_carbon]

What was Clyde thinking????

???

 

[bdave]

We are obviously no worse off with Kaepernick in there and once he builds chemistry with the offense things could really take off. What is the real complaint?!

I feel for Alex Smith but the reality is yes he has a very impressive win/loss record of late, but the dude doesn't get it done against the elite teams of the league! He does not scare anyone and quite frankly who here is comfortable with him against teams like Texans, Giants, Ravens... etc??? NOBODY!

The pleasant surprise by Kaepernick, teams are having a hard time getting to him because he's so slippery and what usually would be a sack turns into a play. That's a promising sample of what Colin Kaepernick brings to the table. Alex Smith behind that O-line today would have been sacked at least 2-3 times, maybe more. I don't know if we would have been able to be talking about a win today. All I know is CK7 does not hurt our chances and may be the QB we've been looking for all along.

 

[mm03]

Imagine those two poor throws tonight in a playoff game against a good defense.. I'm not bashing Kap because he's done decent I guess, but lets be real here.. The defense has pretty much won the last two games by themselves.

I just don't see what all of you are I guess.. I do see a young QB with a boat load of talent, but I'm not sure that talent and experience are going to out weigh his inexperience especially going into a playoff atmosphere. What worries me is even when he had his time to shine in the Wild Kap, he had those same poor judgement lapses when he got to throw.. What is sticking out to you guys that you think he's going to magically over come that in 5 more games?

I think the dude has a bright future I just hope the playoffs don't roll around and he loses a game with poor decisions.. Hopefully it works out because if it doesn't it will be an absolute shit storm.

 

[zman1527]

Imagine those two poor throws tonight in a playoff game against a good defense.. I'm not bashing Kap because he's done decent I guess, but lets be real here.. The defense has pretty much won the last two games by themselves.

I just don't see what all of you are I guess.. I do see a young QB with a boat load of talent, but I'm not sure that talent and experience are going to out weigh his inexperience especially going into a playoff atmosphere. What worries me is even when he had his time to shine in the Wild Kap, he had those same poor judgement lapses when he got to throw.. What is sticking out to you guys that you think he's going to magically over come that in 5 more games?

I think the dude has a bright future I just hope the playoffs don't roll around and he loses a game with poor decisions.. Hopefully it works out because if it doesn't it will be an absolute shit storm.

I am more in your camp than the Kap camp. Alex is 25-1 last 26 games started according to Aikman. How many QBs in their 7th or 8th start have lead their team to playoff success? That said, Kap is the future and looks damn good.

Also, Aikman also said that Kap considers his head the strongest part of his game. If that is true, holy crap, to go with that arm and legs? Look out NFL.

 

[Arete Tzu]

I am more in your camp than the Kap camp. Alex is 25-1 last 26 games started according to Aikman. How many QBs in their 7th or 8th start have lead their team to playoff success? That said, Kap is the future and looks damn good.

Also, Aikman also said that Kap considers his head the strongest part of his game. If that is true, holy crap, to go with that arm and legs? Look out NFL.

we are not 25-1 under smith in his last 26 games. we've lost 2 games this season and tied one...do the math.

 

[BINGO]

Kaepernick gives 49ers new look
San Francisco can now attack defenses in ways it couldn't before
Updated: November 25, 2012, 10:35 PM ET
By Matt Williamson | ESPN.com

Colin Kaepernick can make plays with his arm that Alex Smith couldn't.

Going into New Orleans and getting a win is an extremely difficult chore. But that is exactly what the NFC's best team, the San Francisco 49ers, did on Sunday. And they did so with Colin Kaepernick as their starting quarterback, not Alex Smith.

As I have said all week, inserting Kaepernick as the starter should have been a very easy, albeit controversial decision for Jim Harbaugh.

Of course, it is a very small sample size, but the 49ers have won both games Kaepernick has started -- one against what I believe is the best defense in football (Chicago Bears), and the second against an extremely hot New Orleans Saints team in one of the most difficult stadiums for opposing teams to play in.

This is a different team and offense with Kaepernick behind center -- a better team.

We all recall that Harbaugh and this current 49ers' staff inherited Smith and, frankly, did a fantastic job playing to his strengths and weakness. But the 49ers chose Kaepernick when they traded up early in the second round two years ago to attain an extremely talented player.

Even with Smith and his limitations, the 49ers' offense was very difficult to play against. Their run game and use of personnel and formations is as vast and unique as any team in the league. And this offense is -- and has been -- extremely physical with its run-first approach.

Alex Smith is a fine quarterback, but his upside is limited.

Also, with Smith as the starter, San Francisco played as well on special teams and defense as any team in football. Of course, all of these factors make the job much easier for a limited passer, and Smith did very well overall.

But all these positive surrounding factors are still in place and also make the job of acclimating a first-time starter much easier as well. With Kaepernick, Harbaugh can use his great offensive mind to attack the entire field. He can also attack the defense with designed quarterback runs and plays that stem off such runs. But this isn't about Kaepernick's outstanding running skills.

To be a top starting quarterback in this league, which is exactly what I think San Francisco's second-year quarterback will eventually become, you have to be a great pocket passer and have great command of your surroundings.

Kaepernick has fantastic arm strength -- he has a gun. Harbaugh can utilize that arm strength to attack all levels of the defense much more effectively, and that is also why Randy Moss, Mario Manningham and A.J. Jenkins -- deep threat wide receivers -- were all brought in this offseason. They were brought in for this time, Kaepernick's time. And as we all know, a power running game and deep passing game complement one another extremely well, often with the usage of play-action.

But Harbaugh now can call more deep posts, digs, comebacks and other "arm strength throws." That makes defending San Francisco's passing game far more difficult than with Smith.

We knew Kaepernick has a huge arm and great athletic ability, but as I mentioned above, Harbaugh's offense is complex. How Kaepernick grasps the intellectual side of the position might just be the most important question. Now, I am not going to pretend to know every play call, progression or exactly what is asked of Kaepernick from a play-to-play basis, but it was clear against Chicago that he was calling audibles at the line of scrimmage and making quick and precise pre-snap reads and adjustments.

On the road against the Saints in an extremely loud stadium, this part of Kaepernick's game was not as crisp, but he never looked overwhelmed either. And while he may have panicked a bit on a poor snap and rushed his subsequent read and throw -- that resulted in a poor interception -- he also had several very impressive plays that were dropped or called back from a penalty.

There will be growing pains. There are presently growing pains with Andrew Luck, Cam Newton and Robert Griffin III as well. That is part of it. But Kaepernick is way ahead of the curve and is just getting started.

The 49ers' defense scored two touchdowns against New Orleans, and while Kaepernick didn't post huge numbers in his first road start, he played well enough overall for his team to win with or without those two defensive touchdowns. And while I thought it was clear that Kaepernick should be the starter after the win over the Bears, after this game, I feel even stronger about it. San Francisco is now the best team in the NFC, and their future franchise quarterback is a major reason why.

Will Kaepernick be able to outduel fellow NFC quarterbacks such as Aaron Rodgers, Matt Ryan or Eli Manning in the playoffs, when everything is just a little more difficult and obviously means far more? Maybe not, but it is possible. And that will be a fantastic experience for him.

But despite one huge playoff game last season that suggests otherwise, I am pretty convinced that Smith is not that type of quarterback and never will be. Again, that isn't a knock on Smith -- he is a good player. But Kaepernick can be great. And just imagine the 49ers with a truly great quarterback.

Matt Williamson
ESPN.com

 

[NinersFan80]

I am more in your camp than the Kap camp. Alex is 25-1 last 26 games started according to Aikman. How many QBs in their 7th or 8th start have lead their team to playoff success? That said, Kap is the future and looks damn good.

Also, Aikman also said that Kap considers his head the strongest part of his game. If that is true, holy crap, to go with that arm and legs? Look out NFL.

Lol, did you just become a fan?

 

[1911Alaska]

I am more in your camp than the Kap camp. Alex is 25-1 last 26 games started according to Aikman. How many QBs in their 7th or 8th start have lead their team to playoff success? That said, Kap is the future and looks damn good.

Also, Aikman also said that Kap considers his head the strongest part of his game. If that is true, holy crap, to go with that arm and legs? Look out NFL.

25-1 in the last 26 games? Thats weird since we already have 2 loses and a tie this year

 

[zman1527]

Lol, did you just become a fan?

Nope, Kap has been fantastic and I do not discount his abilities in any way. Clearly he can do things Alex can't. When I was watching two top-notch qbs on Turkey Day Houston vs Detroit, I thought that Kap looked better than either, at least in physical abilities. I am incredibly psyched for his future.

My only question, not a complaint, is whether it is wise to make the change right now, this year. I think they could win the SB this year with AS. Can you win the SB with a guy making his 8th career start heading into the playoffs? That experience part and AS performance in the playoffs last year makes me lean in his direction. Everyone promoting Kap is giving very very short shrift to the experience thingy.

 

[NinersFan80]

Nope, Kap has been fantastic and I do not discount his abilities in any way. Clearly he can do things Alex can't. When I was watching two top-notch qbs on Turkey Day Houston vs Detroit, I thought that Kap looked better than either, at least in physical abilities. I am incredibly psyched for his future.

My only question, not a complaint, is whether it is wise to make the change right now, this year. I think they could win the SB this year with AS. Can you win the SB with a guy making his 8th career start heading into the playoffs? That experience part and AS performance in the playoffs last year makes me lean in his direction. Everyone promoting Kap is giving very very short shrift to the experience thingy.

I was talking about the record you posted

 

[CalamityX11]

In ALL FAIRNESS, Aikman made it really sound like 25-1 in the last 26 lol... I was even baffled by it.

But what he said was 20 5 n 1 aka 20-5-1....

Damn you Troy

 

[SY8goat]

In ALL FAIRNESS, Aikman made it really sound like 25-1 in the last 26 lol... I was even baffled by it.

But what he said was 20 5 n 1 aka 20-5-1....

Damn you Troy

I think Aikman sees himself in Alex Smith. Yeah, the Cowboys won 3 Super Bowls(w/ Troy at QB), but it wasn't all because of Troy Aikman.

 

[SY8goat]

I don't you or others understand the notion that Kaep can make throws that Alex Smith doesn't. Nobody is saying Alex Smith can never hit a 25 yard deep out route under any circumstance. Under perfect conditions, and IF he's willing to attempt it, he could. A lot of NFL QBs could. The difference is Kaepernick can makes these throws from difference platforms, from in and outside the pocket, and with defenders in his face. Alex Smith can't make these throws. Smith would've even attempt those throws.

You could be a real d-bag sometimes, but you are 100% right. Smith is physically incapable of making throws that Kaepernick has made in the past 2.5 games. Smith has to put his weight/body into the throw to complete certain passes, while Kaepernick does not.

 

[CalamityX11]

I think Aikman sees himself in Alex Smith. Yeah, the Cowboys won 3 Super Bowls(w/ Troy at QB), but it wasn't all because of Troy Aikman.

Yeah, Troy has become quite a 49ers fan as of late... scares me honestly.

He does mention Alex a lot, almost as much as an old poster of ours by the name of Cazic.

He does say our OL is top and better than his championship ones....

 

[zman1527]

In ALL FAIRNESS, Aikman made it really sound like 25-1 in the last 26 lol... I was even baffled by it.

But what he said was 20 5 n 1 aka 20-5-1....

Damn you Troy

Yeah, that must be right. He sure said it like it was 25-1 though. Shoulda realized it could not be correct.

 

[NinersFan80]

In ALL FAIRNESS, Aikman made it really sound like 25-1 in the last 26 lol... I was even baffled by it.

But what he said was 20 5 n 1 aka 20-5-1....

Damn you Troy

I am pretty sure early in the game Buck made the same comment but then said "20 dash 5 dash 1" because he understood that it probably sounded like 25 and 1 but all of us fans know that isn't right.

 

[TobyTyler]

It's pretty clear who should be our starter heading forward this year, in the playoffs, and into next year. Everyone knows about the physical tools, but the swagger and edge he brings to the offense is evident. He's a QB that makes the players around him better, Alex isn't. Simple as that.

I haven't had a chance to watch the game yet but the line of 16-25 with one TD and only managing 17 points on offense against a bad defense sounds pretty Alex Smith-like to me. I'm getting read to fire up the DVR right now.

 

[deep9er]

Imagine those two poor throws tonight in a playoff game against a good defense.. I'm not bashing Kap because he's done decent I guess, but lets be real here.. The defense has pretty much won the last two games by themselves.

I just don't see what all of you are I guess.. I do see a young QB with a boat load of talent, but I'm not sure that talent and experience are going to out weigh his inexperience especially going into a playoff atmosphere. What worries me is even when he had his time to shine in the Wild Kap, he had those same poor judgement lapses when he got to throw.. What is sticking out to you guys that you think he's going to magically over come that in 5 more games?

I think the dude has a bright future I just hope the playoffs don't roll around and he loses a game with poor decisions.. Hopefully it works out because if it doesn't it will be an absolute shit storm.

isn't this why you start him now, to gain more experience prior to the play-offs? an example of what they need to work on are mix up in alignment. yes, he will have a bad decision here and there, like any QB would.

adding yesterday's game, he has shown composure and ability to operate our offense. don't see how you go away from the "hot hand"?