Please, no more CK7 vs. Smith debates

[iHATEdodgers]

So, the out route to Crabtree with the DB underneath and safety over the top, would have been attempted by Smith?

:mmph: You are right that's 2 out of 25 attempts that were unlike Smith, also the interception and the throw to Moss in the endzone. So that's 4 (two good, two bad) out of 25 that were unlike Smith.

Point is it wasn't all that different. Like I said though Kaep had a good game. He has been impressive in his first two starts.

 

[iHATEdodgers]

If the coaching staff does go with CK the rest of the way, I hope they show him how to protect the ball while running. Its hard to watch him run with the ball resting on his fore-arm, just waiting to be jarred loose! He needs to realize this is the NFL and he can get caught from behind. Im really surprised they havent addressed it yet...

Yeah I hear ya on that, he very nealy fumbled it early on - I guess he was down first? But yeah good point, why hasn't that been addressed by the staff yet?

 

[-AC-]

:mmph: You are right that's 2 out of 25 attempts that were unlike Smith, also the interception and the throw to Moss in the endzone. So that's 4 (two good, two bad) out of 25 that were unlike Smith.

Point is it wasn't all that different. Like I said though Kaep had a good game. He has been impressive in his first two starts.

Actually, I think Kaep has a lower interception rate than Smith. So I don't think this statement is fair or accurate...

 

[MHSL82]

Actually, I think Kaep has a lower interception rate than Smith. So I don't think this statement is fair or accurate...

He's just talking about this game. I assume Kaep's INT is not Kaep-like either. When you only throw 25 times, any INT is rounding the averages up. Alex and Kaep would have to throw 50 passes or more before I would anticipate an INT. I would give Alex the edge as to INTs, because he has a longer track record and won't try some that Kaep will. If you take all throws during Harbaugh's coaching, I think Smith may have a lower INT percentage. That Giants games makes it look bad, but even with counting those, the last two years, he has one of the lowest if not the lowest in the league due to his emphasis and sack taking.

 

[iHATEdodgers]

Actually, I think Kaep has a lower interception rate than Smith. So I don't think this statement is fair or accurate...

Pretty small sample size for Kaep, and really c'mon Smith posted the 3rd lowest INT rate all time last year and has been stingy in every game this year except for his spastic effort vs. the Giants.

My point was actually that it was double coverage not so much the INT. Smith doesnt usually go there. And the throw to Moss was just terrible, Alex floats it better maybe floats it out but he doesn't throw it there where it would have been picked if Moss didn't mug the defender. In any case the point is overall what Kaep did today was not all that different through the air than what Smith has been doing. But it is exceptional that he has performed this well in his first two starts, if Kaep starts next week it's game over for Smith.

 

[iHATEdodgers]

He's just talking about this game. I assume Kaep's INT is not Kaep-like either. When you only throw 25 times, any INT is rounding the averages up. Alex and Kaep would have to throw 50 passes or more before I would anticipate an INT. I would give Alex the edge as to INTs, because he has a longer track record and won't try some that Kaep will. If you take all throws during Harbaugh's coaching, I think Smith may have a lower INT percentage. That Giants games makes it look bad, but even with counting those, the last two years, he has one of the lowest if not the lowest in the league due to his emphasis and sack taking.

You stole my homework!

 

[imac_21]

Pretty small sample size for Kaep, and really c'mon Smith posted the 3rd lowest INT rate all time last year and has been stingy in every game this year except for his spastic effort vs. the Giants.

My point was actually that it was double coverage not so much the INT. Smith doesnt usually go there. And the throw to Moss was just terrible, Alex floats it better maybe floats it out but he doesn't throw it there where it would have been picked if Moss didn't mug the defender. In any case the point is overall what Kaep did today was not all that different through the air than what Smith has been doing. But it is exceptional that he has performed this well in his first two starts, if Kaep starts next week it's game over for Smith.

I assume you're basing this on all the fades Smith has thrown to Moss.

 

[CalamityX11]

What was Clyde thinking????

 

[SFAnthem]

If the coaching staff does go with CK the rest of the way, I hope they show him how to protect the ball while running. Its hard to watch him run with the ball resting on his fore-arm, just waiting to be jarred loose! He needs to realize this is the NFL and he can get caught from behind. Im really surprised they havent addressed it yet...

Manningham needs to attend that meeting, too

 

[iHATEdodgers]

I assume you're basing this on all the fades Smith has thrown to Moss.

First of all I think it was just a bad throw by Kaep - I don't think that would be the norm for him making that throw to any receiver. He looks pretty damn good overall.

Smith has played relatively mistake-free football for a while now. I think based on his track record he doesn't throw that ball that way.

 

[iHATEdodgers]

What was Clyde thinking????

... :ss: ...

Just to add fuel to the fire or shit to the pot I guess, Harbaugh said this after the game:

Niners coach Jim Harbaugh implied the decision to start Kaepernick had more to do with preserving Smith's long-term health than on performance, but he was noncommittal about who might start next week at St. Louis.

"The fact he had symptoms seven to eight days later, I'm not going to put a guy back out there," Harbaugh said of Smith. "He eventually got cleared. The plan was to rotate him back into the action (in practice), but not all the way to the front line. ... That would give him a chance to get cleared up completely."

I don't know if he's still toying with everybody, you can read it that way. You can also read it as Smith is still his guy. Harbaugh is really playing this perfectly.

 

[-AC-]

Pretty small sample size for Kaep, and really c'mon Smith posted the 3rd lowest INT rate all time last year and has been stingy in every game this year except for his spastic effort vs. the Giants.

My point was actually that it was double coverage not so much the INT. Smith doesnt usually go there. And the throw to Moss was just terrible, Alex floats it better maybe floats it out but he doesn't throw it there where it would have been picked if Moss didn't mug the defender. In any case the point is overall what Kaep did today was not all that different through the air than what Smith has been doing. But it is exceptional that he has performed this well in his first two starts, if Kaep starts next week it's game over for Smith.

How big of sample size do we need? Can we use Smith's carrer Int. percent, or just the last year and a half to suit your argument? Or maybe we can look at Chicago who leads the league with interceptions and New York who is close behind Chicago with 2 less picks. Alex was picked off 3 times against New York (going off memory) and Kaep wasn't picked off at all versus Chicago.

Again small sample sizes, but I'm just trying to figure out where this argument is coming from? If Harbaugh could coach and game-plan Smith into throwing less picks, why does everyone assume Kaep will have more picks with the same coach? And what does it boil down to? Do you take the 8 yard sack and punt, or go for the first down on 3rd and long, with the small chance that the ball gets picked on occasion? I like the chances of having a QB that won't take the sack...

It almost feels like the mentality of some of the fans on this board has become much like Alex Smith's play at QB. Over cautious with very little guts to make the hard decisions...

 

[iHATEdodgers]

How big of sample size do we need? Can we use Smith's carrer Int. percent, or just the last year and a half to suit your argument? Or maybe we can look at Chicago who leads the league with interceptions and New York who is close behind Chicago with 2 less picks. Alex was picked off 3 times against New York (going off memory) and Kaep wasn't picked off at all versus Chicago.

Again small sample sizes, but I'm just trying to figure out where this argument is coming from? If Harbaugh could coach and game-plan Smith into throwing less picks, why does everyone assume Kaep will have more picks with the same coach? And what does it boil down to? Do you take the 8 yard sack and punt, or go for the first down on 3 and long, with the small chance that the ball gets picked on occasion?

It almost feels like the mentality of some of the fans on this board has become much like Alex Smith's play at QB. Over cautious with very little guts to make the hard decisions...

Geezus dude to quote myself: My point was actually that it was double coverage not so much the INT. Smith doesnt usually go there. And the throw to Moss was just terrible, Alex floats it better maybe floats it out but he doesn't throw it there where it would have been picked if Moss didn't mug the defender. In any case the point is overall what Kaep did today was not all that different through the air than what Smith has been doing. But it is exceptional that he has performed this well in his first two starts, if Kaep starts next week it's game over for Smith.

 

[imac_21]

First of all I think it was just a bad throw by Kaep - I don't think that would be the norm for him making that throw to any receiver. He looks pretty damn good overall.

Smith has played relatively mistake-free football for a while now. I think based on his track record he doesn't throw that ball that way.

I think based on Smith's track record he doesn't throw that ball. You don't need to include "that way." He's thrown that pass one time under Harbaugh.

In terms of badly underthrowing a ball that only the CB has a chance to catch, what about the pass to Edwards that was a beautifully thrown fade to Ladarius Webb 52 weeks ago? Everyone said Edwards needed to do exactly what Moss did today. Now, it was a slightly farther pass, but it was a badly underthrown fade.

And if the topic is throws that Kaepernick makes that Smith doesn't, we have to find a way to account for all the plays in which Smith takes a sack and Kaep keeps the play alive.

Honestly, I really don't want to start deconstructing Alex Smith, but I can't believe people are on here saying that Kaep's performance(s) have been typical Alex Smith.

 

[Yoshi]

I am President Barack Obama and I approve this message!!

I didn't know Obama is a Niners fan???

 

[MHSL82]

I think based on Smith's track record he doesn't throw that ball. You don't need to include "that way." He's thrown that pass one time under Harbaugh.

In terms of badly underthrowing a ball that only the CB has a chance to catch, what about the pass to Edwards that was a beautifully thrown fade to Ladarius Webb 52 weeks ago? Everyone said Edwards needed to do exactly what Moss did today. Now, it was a slightly farther pass, but it was a badly underthrown fade.

And if the topic is throws that Kaepernick makes that Smith doesn't, we have to find a way to account for all the plays in which Smith takes a sack and Kaep keeps the play alive.

Honestly, I really don't want to start deconstructing Alex Smith, but I can't believe people are on here saying that Kaep's performance(s) have been typical Alex Smith.

I'd think there'd be a better example somewhere, but I can't think of it. The Raven's INT was much farther IIRC and it wasn't underthrown as in not throwing it far enough, but rather Smith thought he was going inside, not outside. Edwards did that in Seattle in preseason, too. I don't see anything that tells me that it wasn't the often-overused miscommunication. The Kaep almost INT, I don't know because I only saw that live. Maybe that was miscommunication as well, but if not, inexperience.

For the record, I am not one of those claiming that this was Smith-like. Room for improvement and defense was great, but impressive for a second start. It's a good thing to expect even more from Kaep.

 

[imac_21]

I'd think there'd be a better example somewhere, but I can't think of it. The Raven's INT was much farther IIRC and it wasn't underthrown as in not throwing it far enough, but rather Smith thought he was going inside, not outside. Edwards did that in Seattle in preseason, too. I don't see anything that tells me that it wasn't the often-overused miscommunication. The Kaep almost INT, I don't know because I only saw that live. Maybe that was miscommunication as well, but if not, inexperience.

For the record, I am not one of those claiming that this was Smith-like. Room for improvement and defense was great, but impressive for a second start. It's a good thing to expect even more from Kaep.

He was on the outside the entire time. How did Smith possibly expect him to break to the inside?

Watch San Francisco 49ers vs. Baltimore Ravens [11/24/2011] - NFL.com

 

[MHSL82]

Again small sample sizes, but I'm just trying to figure out where this argument is coming from? If Harbaugh could coach and game-plan Smith into throwing less picks, why does everyone assume Kaep will have more picks with the same coach? And what does it boil down to? Do you take the 8 yard sack and punt, or go for the first down on 3rd and long, with the small chance that the ball gets picked on occasion? I like the chances of having a QB that won't take the sack...

I don't think people are assuming this based upon any fault of Kaep. You said "more" not "worse" INTs - so here's my assumption: For example, out of 40 sacks Smith takes, let's assume 20 are thrown away instead of sacked. Out of the remaining sacks, let's assume 10 are sacks due to legitimate pressure or oline problems. Out of the remining 10 passes, assume 5 are caught. Out of the remaining five, one or two are intercepted. That would lead to more INTs (pressured passes = more INT chances), but with the five more catches, some are big yards or TDs. The throwaways save yards.

BTW, these numbers aren't scientific of course, just an illustration. I don't think we're talking about Kaep just flat out throwing INTs, though that may happen early in his career. I think all of us would take a 1% increase in INTs if it meant 2-4% increase in TDs. (Percentage of passes thrown.)

 

[Flyingiguana]

If the coaching staff does go with CK the rest of the way, I hope they show him how to protect the ball while running. Its hard to watch him run with the ball resting on his fore-arm, just waiting to be jarred loose! He needs to realize this is the NFL and he can get caught from behind. Im really surprised they havent addressed it yet...

they need to like duct tape his arm to his body and make him around for a day like that

 

[Flyingiguana]

I didn't know Obama is a Niners fan???

well after last monday night, there's no way he's a bears fan...