Please, no more CK7 vs. Smith debates

[yossarian]

I had to tivo the game, but it allowed me to go back and watch it after reading this entire debate thread. I have always thought that Smith is not as bad as some people are saying on this board, that he was having a really good year, and that I would take him over a whole list of qbs currently in the NFL, but even I have to admit that he is limited, I hate how many sacks he takes, and I am astounded with how good our offensive line is and our plethora of good receivers that the pass plays usually are short gains. I rarely see him throw a dart when the pocket is collapsing or make that type of difficult throw. I have no idea whether that's a physical or mental limitation, but he doesn't do it.

But now I'm convinced we need to start Kaep. The first reason is practical -- if Kaep starts to stink (unlikely, but still), we can go back to Smith -- but if we start Smith, the first time he has a mediocre game or misses a throw or gets sacked, the public is just going to turn on him again -- that's a little unfair, but there it is. Second, is that Kaep does all those things that Smith is unable to do I mentioned earlier, and to me he's shown that he not a liability in terms of his ability to read defenses, audible, and change plays -- which I had thought were Smith's huge advantage over Kaep. I just have the feeling watching Kaep that if we play the Giants, or the Falcons in the playoffs that he can make that big throw while people are all over him, or potentially run 70 yards for a score, I don't have that feeling with Smith -- despite the New Orleans game last year. I feel bad for Smith, I've always thought he got a raw deal from our earlier coaching carousel, he's been a standup guy, and he's had a really good year and has done nothing to lose this job, I just think that Kaep has shown he has a higher ceiling in most respects.

 

[threelittleturds]

Man, how disappointed would you be if Harbaugh went back to Smith after these last 2.5 games with CK?

I'd feel like I got kicked in the gut by a mule.

 

[TobyTyler]

Man, how disappointed would you be if Harbaugh went back to Smith after these last 2.5 games with CK?

I'd feel like I got kicked in the gut by a mule.

So far I've only watched the first half of the game but I've not seen anything so far that really stood out as far as Kaepernick's play. he was just OK in my opinion. The problem with Smith is I think we've seen the best of him but Kaepernick could just keep getting better.

 

[deep9er]

I had to tivo the game, but it allowed me to go back and watch it after reading this entire debate thread. I have always thought that Smith is not as bad as some people are saying on this board, that he was having a really good year, and that I would take him over a whole list of qbs currently in the NFL, but even I have to admit that he is limited, I hate how many sacks he takes, and I am astounded with how good our offensive line is and our plethora of good receivers that the pass plays usually are short gains. I rarely see him throw a dart when the pocket is collapsing or make that type of difficult throw. I have no idea whether that's a physical or mental limitation, but he doesn't do it.

But now I'm convinced we need to start Kaep. The first reason is practical -- if Kaep starts to stink (unlikely, but still), we can go back to Smith -- but if we start Smith, the first time he has a mediocre game or misses a throw or gets sacked, the public is just going to turn on him again -- that's a little unfair, but there it is. Second, is that Kaep does all those things that Smith is unable to do I mentioned earlier, and to me he's shown that he not a liability in terms of his ability to read defenses, audible, and change plays -- which I had thought were Smith's huge advantage over Kaep. I just have the feeling watching Kaep that if we play the Giants, or the Falcons in the playoffs that he can make that big throw while people are all over him, or potentially run 70 yards for a score, I don't have that feeling with Smith -- despite the New Orleans game last year. I feel bad for Smith, I've always thought he got a raw deal from our earlier coaching carousel, he's been a standup guy, and he's had a really good year and has done nothing to lose this job, I just think that Kaep has shown he has a higher ceiling in most respects.

agree, that was my concern too but after yesterday think Kaep is fine. there were a few 'audibles' that didn't go well, causing timeouts. but those things are very correctable in practice.

think most of us - not all - agree with your description of Alex? he has done tremendous to pick himself up, stick with the 49ers, and PROVE he can win. he hasn't done anything wrong to lose the job, but yet it was inevitable he would be replaced. so it is about how early its happening, more than he's being replaced. cause it is just highly unusual to be replaced while you're doing well?

 

[threelittleturds]

Vernon Davis: Alex Smith still San Francisco 49ers' guy - NFL.com

Hmmmm, they kinda have a point about VD. After he was targeted a lot he felt great about CK and then with only one target which he dropped, he kinda swings back to Smith.

Although, I think this article is misquoting him, or rather misinterpreting him, he says in my heart I know Alex is the man and they are taking it as him saying Alex is the starter, but I think VD was just saying that he loves Smith and Alex is "the" man.

 

[TobyTyler]

Vernon Davis: Alex Smith still San Francisco 49ers' guy - NFL.com

Hmmmm, they kinda have a point about VD. After he was targeted a lot he felt great about CK and then with only one target which he dropped, he kinda swings back to Smith.

Although, I think this article is misquoting him, or rather misinterpreting him, he says in my heart I know Alex is the man and they are taking it as him saying Alex is the starter, but I think VD was just saying that he loves Smith and Alex is "the" man.

At the very least we now have two guys who I am confident the 49ers can win with. I think I prefer Kaepernick because of the upside but I've seen very little from him so far in the first half that impressed me other than his escapability and ability to make a play on the run which is a huge upgrade from Smith.

 

[yossarian]

he hasn't done anything wrong to lose the job, but yet it was inevitable he would be replaced. so it is about how early its happening, more than he's being replaced. cause it is just highly unusual to be replaced while you're doing well?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it is unusual, and had he not been injured he would have been the starter the rest of the season and into the playoffs. Someone said yesterday on the network it would probably make players more likely to hide their concussion symptoms. And if Harbaugh had played it really conservative, kept Kaep under wraps and ran the ball 50 times, we would be going back to Smith without knowing what was out there. But Harbaugh didn't limit his playbook -- either against one of the most opportunistic defenses in the league, and in one of the loudest hostile stadiums to play -- so he brought this controversy on himself -- and Kaep did really well.

 

[deep9er]

So far I've only watched the first half of the game but I've not seen anything so far that really stood out as far as Kaepernick's play. he was just OK in my opinion. The problem with Smith is I think we've seen the best of him but Kaepernick could just keep getting better.

yes, he didn't blow people away yesterday with stats, but you can just see he is more dangerous on pass plays. for me, it isn't those he completes that come to mind first, nor his ability to throw DOWNFIELD.

but the first thing that came to mind is he moves around better when pressure arrives. he keeps a few plays alive that Alex wouldn't have.

 

[TobyTyler]

yes, he didn't blow people away yesterday with stats, but you can just see he is more dangerous on pass plays. for me, it isn't those he completes that come to mind first, nor his ability to throw DOWNFIELD.

but the first thing that came to mind is he moves around better when pressure arrives. he keeps a few plays alive that Alex wouldn't have.

The New Orleans game is more what I expected from Kaepernick; doing things with his legs rather than his arm. He did have a nice one to Crabtree called back on holding and another nice one to Davis that he dropped though. But all in all, against a weak defense I thought the offense looked very mundane. the defense won tghis one.

 

[deep9er]

The New Orleans game is more what I expected from Kaepernick; doing things with his legs rather than his arm. He did have a nice one to Crabtree called back on holding and another nice one to Davis that he dropped though. But all in all, against a weak defense I thought the offense looked very mundane. the defense won tghis one.

overall i agree.

yep, the pass to Davis was a beaut, thought it was Kaep's best throw yesterday.

 

[TobyTyler]

overall i agree.

yep, the pass to Davis was a beaut, thought it was Kaep's best throw yesterday.

He threw a couple of nice ones to Delanie Walker that he actually caught! Crabtree has been showing some really strong hands lately. I'm also a little more confident in Kaepernick's ability to make a play down by the goal line than I am with Smith.

 

[deep9er]

He threw a couple of nice ones to Delanie Walker that he actually caught! Crabtree has been showing some really strong hands lately. I'm also a little more confident in Kaepernick's ability to make a play down by the goal line than I am with Smith.

true, those to Walker were good but didn't Walker have to 'stretch' a little? wasn't he off balance a little with the second one?

whereas the one to Davis was on a rope, hit Davis in stride, and the ball touched the 8 - 5.

[just comparing which ONE throw was best, not nit-picking Kaep passing ability]

 

[clyde_carbon]

The New Orleans game is more what I expected from Kaepernick; doing things with his legs rather than his arm. He did have a nice one to Crabtree called back on holding and another nice one to Davis that he dropped though. But all in all, against a weak defense I thought the offense looked very mundane. the defense won tghis one.

What? Kaep made more plays with his arm than with his feet against NO.

 

[taughtmepatience]

The New Orleans game is more what I expected from Kaepernick; doing things with his legs rather than his arm. He did have a nice one to Crabtree called back on holding and another nice one to Davis that he dropped though. But all in all, against a weak defense I thought the offense looked very mundane. the defense won tghis one.

What did you think of the soul crushing drive he authored to start the fourth quarter? He made several great plays with his arm to convert third downs. That drive ripped the heart out of the Saints and is what we fans have been hoping to see... critical plays at critical moments to destroy the competition and not rely on the defense to make stops.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

I didn't think Kap had a game i'd call lack of production. He lost alot of production to penalties and BS calls like the crab down call. He also had a handful of drops. his game could have easily looked much better. He is over 300 with out that shit, and we most likely put up more points.

That describes a lot of games by Alex.

 

[clyde_carbon]

That describes a lot of games by Alex.

When it's 70+ starts, you start looking at the common denominator.

 

[TobyTyler]

[QUOTE=clyde_carbon;2563517]What? Kaep made more plays with his arm than with his feet against NO.[/QUOTE]

Yes. He kept a ton of plays alive with his feet. I was impressed with that aspect of his game.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

When it's 70+ starts, you start looking at the common denominator.

It will be interesting to see if everyone is as nitpicky for Kap.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Vernon Davis: Alex Smith still San Francisco 49ers' guy - NFL.com

 

[TobyTyler]

What did you think of the soul crushing drive he authored to start the fourth quarter? He made several great plays with his arm to convert third downs. That drive ripped the heart out of the Saints and is what we fans have been hoping to see... critical plays at critical moments to destroy the competition and not rely on the defense to make stops.

Yep. I thought the key play was the 4 or 5 yard grab crabtree made on a poor pass to get the first down. crabtree is showing some strong hands this year.