OT: Winter Is Coming | Game of Thrones Discussion Thread

[elocomotive]

So i take it the Iron Bank gave Stannis their backing (or some at least - hedging their bets ... theyre bankers afterall)

The dude couldnt even speak for himself in front of them ... I know I know ... its because he was too proud as he thinks himself the true and rightful king

I know - I thought it was weird how he was expecting Davos to make the case as well.

It was also weird that the Iron Bank guys just finished talking about how they make decisions on numbers, not emotions.... and then caved to an emotional appeal about honor.

And if the bank is backing both sides, don't they ultimately lose 1/2 their money. Their interest rates must be OUTRAGEOUS if they can do that and still make money.

 

[SLY]

I know - I thought it was weird how he was expecting Davos to make the case as well.

It was also weird that the Iron Bank guys just finished talking about how they make decisions on numbers, not emotions.... and then caved to an emotional appeal about honor.

And if the bank is backing both sides, don't they ultimately lose 1/2 their money. Their interest rates must be OUTRAGEOUS if they can do that and still make money.

Davos, while acting on emotion, spelled out how the Iron Bank was likely not going to be seeing any payback with the probable chain of events soon to take place (Lannisters dying off, blah blah). So I think they made their decision based on probability/statistics/whatever.

 

[Dacks]

I know - I thought it was weird how he was expecting Davos to make the case as well.

It was also weird that the Iron Bank guys just finished talking about how they make decisions on numbers, not emotions.... and then caved to an emotional appeal about honor.

And if the bank is backing both sides, don't they ultimately lose 1/2 their money. Their interest rates must be OUTRAGEOUS if they can do that and still make money.

Backing both sides and losing half your money is still better than potentially backing the losing side and losing all your money. I think Davos convinced them that the Lannister rule is a disaster-in-waiting.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Backing both sides and losing half your money is still better than potentially backing the losing side and losing all your money. I think Davos convinced them that the Lannister rule is a disaster-in-waiting.

like i said ... bankers ... hedging lol

 

[elocomotive]

Davos, while acting on emotion, spelled out how the Iron Bank was likely not going to be seeing any payback with the probable chain of events soon to take place (Lannisters dying off, blah blah). So I think they made their decision based on probability/statistics/whatever.

Right... but it didn't seem sound to me. The argument was Tywin will be gone and who do you have left, but there is a line succession in place to handle that.

I'm guessing the key to their decision was more that the Lannister mines have dried up and maybe they had already decided yes but wanted to test their new investment. Either way, it's a shitty bank - you have one group WAY indebted that has lost it's income source and another group that is new/risky with no natural resources that wants to win a war with troops they don't have and no way to feed them.

Iron Bank = Goldman Sachs

 

[Clayton]

The speech by Tyrion was amazing. That was some of the best acting I have seen. You could feel the disgust, the anger, and the betrayal in his voice and face.

I loved it. Its a lifetime of second guessing every single little thing all coming out at once.

I feel like they really need to progress Arya Stark.

These last 5 episodes are the highlight from the books, imo. Its going to be up to the TV people at HBO to keep this level of entertainment going but every last bit of this season should be great.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

that joke that Davos black pirate friend ( i forget his name ) told was solid lol

 

[elocomotive]

that joke that Davos black pirate friend ( i forget his name ) told was solid lol

I guess all pirates look alike to you.

(agree - good joke)

 

[elocomotive]

I loved it. Its a lifetime of second guessing every single little thing all coming out at once.

I feel like they really need to progress Arya Stark.

These last 5 episodes are the highlight from the books, imo. Its going to be up to the TV people at HBO to keep this level of entertainment going but every last bit of this season should be great.

I'd kinda like to see a YouTube video made of all the Arya/Hound scenes from this season and last with a laugh track attached. Haha.

 

[Clayton]

I'd kinda like to see a YouTube video made of all the Arya/Hound scenes from this season and last with a laugh track attached. Haha.

The actress is getting a bit too old...and other issues but yeah. Hard to complain about the show

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Right... but it didn't seem sound to me. The argument was Tywin will be gone and who do you have left, but there is a line succession in place to handle that.

I'm guessing the key to their decision was more that the Lannister mines have dried up and maybe they had already decided yes but wanted to test their new investment. Either way, it's a shitty bank - you have one group WAY indebted that has lost it's income source and another group that is new/risky with no natural resources that wants to win a war with troops they don't have and no way to feed them.

Iron Bank = Goldman Sachs

I think its a run of the mill bank ... the lannister mines have dried up for a reason (ie those high interest rates )

Stannis I think is getting only some financial backing ... just enough to pay some hands/pirates to fight for him and take out the Lannisters

The bank probably has a few calls ... I mean ... ravens ... in with Daenarys asking if she is looking for some new financing for any upcoming capital investments

 

[elocomotive]

I think its a run of the mill bank ... the lannister mines have dried up for a reason (ie those high interest rates )

Stannis I think is getting only some financial backing ... just enough to pay some hands/pirates to fight for him and take out the Lannisters

The bank probably has a few calls ... I mean ... ravens ... in with Daenarys asking if she is looking for some new financing for any upcoming capital investments

I wish they had showed the scene that didn't make the cut right before the opening scene of last night's show. It was when Stannis first arrived at the bank.

Loan officer: How are you today, sir?
Stannis: Fine.
Loan officer: Okay, let's get started. Have some paperwork here for you. Your name please?
Stannis: Stannis... Baratheon. No, it's two "n"s in Stannis. Yeah, that's it.
Loan officer: Great, and your occupation?
Stannis: Stannis of the House Baratheon, First of His Name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm.
Loan officer: Riiiiigggght, so that database only gives me 15 characters, so I'm just going to put "Administrator" if that's okay?
Stannis: I suppose.
Loan officer: Address?
Stannis: Castle Dragonstone.
Loan officer: You have a zip code or a street address there?
Stannis: It's just outside blackwater bay.
Loan officer: Okay, we'll worry about that later. So what brings you in today?
Stannis: I need a loan to finance an army to destroy my enemies and much of the basic infrastructure of the kingdom's major economic hub.
Loan officer: Riiiigggght. Okay, what will the money be used for?
Stannis: To buy more sellswords, finance supplies, food, shipbuil...
Loan officer: Wait a second... food?
Stannis: Yeah, guy, an army needs food.
Loan officer: I just assumed you needed arms.. you... you really don't have any food?
Stannis: No, Dragonstone isn't exactly abundant in fruits and grains.
Loan officer: So what food do you produce there?
Stannis: Well... (sweats a little) none.
Loan officer: None at all?!? So you are importing your food from the nearby lands then.
Stannis: (mockingly) Yeah, from the lands my enemies control! No, we have to bring them in from the far away East.
Loan officer: That must be extremely expensive then, how do you...
Stannis: The Lady Melisandre has assured me the Lord of Light shall provide for us.
Loan officer: Lord of Light? I am not...
Stannis: You've never heard of the one true God? The Lord of Light? R'hilor? the Heart of Fire? the God of Flame and Shadow?
Loan of officer: Again, I've only got 15 characters here, so I'm just going to put "Light" here in the religion field. Is that o...
Stannis: Fine. I am his servant and he will provide for us. (stares at officer)
Loan officer: I'm not sure what you're doing right now.
Stannis: (stares)
Loan officer: Are you casting a... nevernmind. So then why do you need money from us if...
Stannis: I demand to speak to your supervisor, please!!!

[Cue title sequence]

 

[elocomotive]

[YOUTUBE]QJit6E7cC-I[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Comeds]

I wish they had showed the scene that didn't make the cut right before the opening scene of last night's show. It was when Stannis first arrived at the bank.

Loan officer: How are you today, sir?
Stannis: Fine.
Loan officer: Okay, let's get started. Have some paperwork here for you. Your name please?
Stannis: Stannis... Baratheon. No, it's two "n"s in Stannis. Yeah, that's it.
Loan officer: Great, and your occupation?
Stannis: Stannis of the House Baratheon, First of His Name, King of the Andals and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm.
Loan officer: Riiiiigggght, so that database only gives me 15 characters, so I'm just going to put "Administrator" if that's okay?
Stannis: I suppose.
Loan officer: Address?
Stannis: Castle Dragonstone.
Loan officer: You have a zip code or a street address there?
Stannis: It's just outside blackwater bay.
Loan officer: Okay, we'll worry about that later. So what brings you in today?
Stannis: I need a loan to finance an army to destroy my enemies and much of the basic infrastructure of the kingdom's major economic hub.
Loan officer: Riiiigggght. Okay, what will the money be used for?
Stannis: To buy more sellswords, finance supplies, food, shipbuil...
Loan officer: Wait a second... food?
Stannis: Yeah, guy, an army needs food.
Loan officer: I just assumed you needed arms.. you... you really don't have any food?
Stannis: No, Dragonstone isn't exactly abundant in fruits and grains.
Loan officer: So what food do you produce there?
Stannis: Well... (sweats a little) none.
Loan officer: None at all?!? So you are importing your food from the nearby lands then.
Stannis: (mockingly) Yeah, from the lands my enemies control! No, we have to bring them in from the far away East.
Loan officer: That must be extremely expensive then, how do you...
Stannis: The Lady Melisandre has assured me the Lord of Light shall provide for us.
Loan officer: Lord of Light? I am not...
Stannis: You've never heard of the one true God? The Lord of Light? R'hilor? the Heart of Fire? the God of Flame and Shadow?
Loan of officer: Again, I've only got 15 characters here, so I'm just going to put "Light" here in the religion field. Is that o...
Stannis: Fine. I am his servant and he will provide for us. (stares at officer)
Loan officer: I'm not sure what you're doing right now.
Stannis: (stares)
Loan officer: Are you casting a... nevernmind. So then why do you need money from us if...
Stannis: I demand to speak to your supervisor, please!!!

[Cue title sequence]

Was Stannis trying to take the bank's pens only to be stymied by the chain attaching them to the desk?

 

[elocomotive]

Was Stannis trying to take the bank's pens only to be stymied by the chain attaching them to the desk?

Lol. They also nabbed him trying to take like 15 deposit slips.

 

[juliansteed]

I think it was last season when Tyion was explaining to Bronn how borrowing money worked, that he mentioned that if they don't pay back the Iron Bank that they would fund their enemies. Then added that 1 way or another they always get their gold.

I wasn't quite sure how that worked. Perhaps he meant it metaphorically as in they will make you pay 1 way or another. I could see them doing that type of thing out of principle if they don't think someone is going to pay them back. It might be a worthwhile investment to write it off as a bad debt at some point but make them pay in other ways in order to deter future debtors from defaulting. They might even pull their sponsorship at the annual tournament on the King's name-day should the Crown default.

Of course they likely aren't just going to fund any of their enemies. It would have to be a decent risk on it's own, and they'd want to be confident that the enemy would actually teach them a lesson with these funds.

Also if the rebel overtakes the crown, perhaps they inherit the crown's debts and be able to renegotiate terms after taking it over, knowing that once peace has been established, repayment will be more affordable. If the crown disposes of the rebels they would not inherit their debt. So lending to the rebels would be risky unless you think they could win. But if the crown (i.e. the Lannisters) being to appear to be not such a great investment anymore. And if the rebels are successful and do in fact inherit their debt, they could get their money back and prove their point to future debtors at the same time.

 

[juliansteed]

Yea, there's already shit happening that I don't recall from the books, so I'm pretty sure my knowledge will be cut off soon and I too can speculate.

Yeah there is definitely a lot of stuff I'm seeing that I don't remember either. I haven't finished the 5th book though. Most of the story still seems to be in book 3 though, except for the Dreadfort Looks like Mireen has just moved onto book 5. That Hizdahr guy had a different request for Khaleesi in the books. He might have mentioned that his father was crucified, but if so it wasn't the main reason he went to Khaleesi. Maybe he'll get to that other stuff later or maybe not.

 

[elocomotive]

I think it was last season when Tyion was explaining to Bronn how borrowing money worked, that he mentioned that if they don't pay back the Iron Bank that they would fund their enemies. Then added that 1 way or another they always get their gold.

I wasn't quite sure how that worked. Perhaps he meant it metaphorically as in they will make you pay 1 way or another. I could see them doing that type of thing out of principle if they don't think someone is going to pay them back. It might be a worthwhile investment to write it off as a bad debt at some point but make them pay in other ways in order to deter future debtors from defaulting. They might even pull their sponsorship at the annual tournament on the King's name-day should the Crown default.

Of course they likely aren't just going to fund any of their enemies. It would have to be a decent risk on it's own, and they'd want to be confident that the enemy would actually teach them a lesson with these funds.

Also if the rebel overtakes the crown, perhaps they inherit the crown's debts and be able to renegotiate terms after taking it over, knowing that once peace has been established, repayment will be more affordable. If the crown disposes of the rebels they would not inherit their debt. So lending to the rebels would be risky unless you think they could win. But if the crown (i.e. the Lannisters) being to appear to be not such a great investment anymore. And if the rebels are successful and do in fact inherit their debt, they could get their money back and prove their point to future debtors at the same time.

Good points, Julian. But one note - the money owed to the Iron Bank is mostly from the Crown, not the Lannisters, correct?

If that's the case, stability would make the most sense to ensure repayment. So essentially, the Iron Bank is funding rebellion, which will cost the Crown more money and making it less likely they can pay it back if the current regime wins (due to a costly war) or loses (because the new regime would have to rebuild).

If the goal is to make sure the Crown pays back the loan, then this seems a poor way to go about it. Of course, if the goal is to add to the debt of one of your most likely sources to repay, not a bad plan.

 

[juliansteed]

Good points, Julian. But one note - the money owed to the Iron Bank is mostly from the Crown, not the Lannisters, correct?

If that's the case, stability would make the most sense to ensure repayment. So essentially, the Iron Bank is funding rebellion, which will cost the Crown more money and making it less likely they can pay it back if the current regime wins (due to a costly war) or loses (because the new regime would have to rebuild).

If the goal is to make sure the Crown pays back the loan, then this seems a poor way to go about it. Of course, if the goal is to add to the debt of one of your most likely sources to repay, not a bad plan.

Yeah that makes sense. And yeah the money is owed by the Crown and not the Lannisters. In facts, the Crown actually owes Tywin as well.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Game of Thrones Episode 6: Tywin Lannister is terrible with money.