OT Stars Hockey

[RevSader]

Seguin and Benn are so damn good.

 

[WilltheThrill]

Hockey newbie..... But when are Crosby and/or Malkin gonna be free agents? Weren't they drafted in the same year by Pittsburgh?

No, Crosby was drafted #1 overall in 2005 and Malkin was picked #2 overall in 2004 behind Alexander Ovechkin. Both are locked into long-term contracts, Malkin having just signed his 8-year deal this year and Crosby signing a 12-year deal in 2012.

 

[Justinkm83]

I thought when we tied it up we were going to pull it out. Damnit. At least PHX lost so we're still 2 points back.

 

[terpsfball09]

Holy fuck our defense is bad. Today was the first day all year that I heard constant boos throughout the game directed towards the defense. What the fuck is Goligoski doing? He's played so well lately but for some fucking reason he kept driving the net today. And when someone on defense drives the net it leaves the other team with easy 3 on 1's. I counted 6 3 on 1's today. That's disgraceful. There shouldnt even be more than 1! I also counted 3 separate times that Jamie Benn had to play D today. Like literally, he had to take one of their spots and skate back. This game just displayed the need for defense. Kari made some amazing saves. 1 of those goals he probably should have had, but the rest were all on the d.

You guys, please watch the highlight of PK Subban's goal... HOW IN THE ACTUAL FUCK IS HE ABLE TO SKATE RIGHT THE FUCK THROUGH THE MIDDLE OF OUR DEFENSIVE FORMATION UNFUCKINGTOUCHED AND SHOOT AT AN EMPTY NET? We didnt even shove the dude. We just let him waltz on through! Easiest goal he has ever freakin had.

 

[terpsfball09]

Watch Pacioretty's first goal too. That's what I mean. That happened all fucking night. We would only have one guy back on defense. It was disgraceful

 

[ESPN Refugee]

This is what we'll need to expect from our blue line. I want to like Goose and pulling for him but there are games where he shouldn't be on the ice. All that said, they were on a really nice run and just gotta continue getting points. Detroit is beatable tomorrow night. Let's go get 2 points.

 

[WilltheThrill]

Holy fuck our defense is bad. Today was the first day all year that I heard constant boos throughout the game directed towards the defense. What the fuck is Goligoski doing? He's played so well lately but for some fucking reason he kept driving the net today. And when someone on defense drives the net it leaves the other team with easy 3 on 1's. I counted 6 3 on 1's today. That's disgraceful. There shouldnt even be more than 1! I also counted 3 separate times that Jamie Benn had to play D today. Like literally, he had to take one of their spots and skate back. This game just displayed the need for defense. Kari made some amazing saves. 1 of those goals he probably should have had, but the rest were all on the d.

You guys, please watch the highlight of PK Subban's goal... HOW IN THE ACTUAL FUCK IS HE ABLE TO SKATE RIGHT THE FUCK THROUGH THE MIDDLE OF OUR DEFENSIVE FORMATION UNFUCKINGTOUCHED AND SHOOT AT AN EMPTY NET? We didnt even shove the dude. We just let him waltz on through! Easiest goal he has ever freakin had.

There is nothing wrong with a defenseman joining and even leading the rush into the offensive zone. Defensemen aren't supposed to just stay back at all times. That is not their role. Jamie Benn "having to play defense" is nothing more than the off wing cycling back to cover defensively when the defenseman leads the rush to the net. This is a very common tactic used by all NHL teams in every single game. Think of it as a second baseman covering first on a bunt.

So Goligoski was not at fault at all for driving the net. It's actually a good thing. Where he WAS at fault and where he is often at fault is his lazy passing, careless turnovers, and poor positioning in his own zone. He was directly responsible for 2 of the goals against last night. Also, the goal by Eller which broke the 4-4 tie and won the game for Montreal was Kari's fault entirely. Even Razor said so. The defensemen had the passing lanes covered and Kari never squared up fully on Eller. Plus it was a perfectly placed shot.

 

[terpsfball09]

There is nothing wrong with a defenseman joining and even leading the rush into the offensive zone. Defensemen aren't supposed to just stay back at all times. That is not their role. Jamie Benn "having to play defense" is nothing more than the off wing cycling back to cover defensively when the defenseman leads the rush to the net. This is a very common tactic used by all NHL teams in every single game. Think of it as a second baseman covering first on a bunt.

So Goligoski was not at fault at all for driving the net. It's actually a good thing. Where he WAS at fault and where he is often at fault is his lazy passing, careless turnovers, and poor positioning in his own zone. He was directly responsible for 2 of the goals against last night. Also, the goal by Eller which broke the 4-4 tie and won the game for Montreal was Kari's fault entirely. Even Razor said so. The defensemen had the passing lanes covered and Kari never squared up fully on Eller. Plus it was a perfectly placed shot.

No way man. I'm not buying that you think we should have our defencemen drive the net, especially goose, who NEVER does that. This was the first time I have ever seen him do that and he turned it over virtually every time. It was senseless. They would pin him up to the boards behind the goal so he couldn't get back. Sure, some defensemen, like PK Subban for example, can because they are masterful at controlling the puck and avoiding turnovers, but when you have trouble holding onto the puck anyway you do YOUR job. Don't get out of position and lead to an easy offensive chance time after time again for the other squad. We have no defensemen that should be doing that because none of them are good enough. If he had done it one time then I wouldn't care, but he kept doing it every time he had the puck and every time he would dish it off to the habs.

I've been to almost every home game this year and years in the past, and I haven never seen defensemen drive then net on a consistant basis other than last night. PK Subban did it for them and goose did it for us. PK is a top 5 defensemen in the nhl and never turns it over, so he gets a pass. Goose does not. I don't ever see defensemen doing that unless its a breakaway or something, which it wasn't. You have a fantastic outlet passer in PK and you wanna turn it over to him? No shot. I have never seen that and I don't think it happens very often. In the past week I've seen games against shea weber, pietrangelo, bouwmeester, and others, and NONE of them did it. I know all defensemen are different in playing styles, but I would have noticed it if it was a common trend other than last night. It pissed me off to no end. We have points in 7 straight games and we're playing against a very winnable opponent, why the fuck would you try to be pk subban when you aren't half of what he is.

 

[WilltheThrill]

No way man. I'm not buying that you think we should have our defencemen drive the net, especially goose, who NEVER does that. This was the first time I have ever seen him do that and he turned it over virtually every time. It was senseless. They would pin him up to the boards behind the goal so he couldn't get back. Sure, some defensemen, like PK Subban for example, can because they are masterful at controlling the puck and avoiding turnovers, but when you have trouble holding onto the puck anyway you do YOUR job. Don't get out of position and lead to an easy offensive chance time after time again for the other squad. We have no defensemen that should be doing that because none of them are good enough. If he had done it one time then I wouldn't care, but he kept doing it every time he had the puck and every time he would dish it off to the habs.

I've been to almost every home game this year and years in the past, and I haven never seen defensemen drive then net on a consistant basis other than last night. PK Subban did it for them and goose did it for us. PK is a top 5 defensemen in the nhl and never turns it over, so he gets a pass. Goose does not. I don't ever see defensemen doing that unless its a breakaway or something, which it wasn't. You have a fantastic outlet passer in PK and you wanna turn it over to him? No shot. I have never seen that and I don't think it happens very often. In the past week I've seen games against shea weber, pietrangelo, bouwmeester, and others, and NONE of them did it. I know all defensemen are different in playing styles, but I would have noticed it if it was a common trend other than last night. It pissed me off to no end. We have points in 7 straight games and we're playing against a very winnable opponent, why the fuck would you try to be pk subban when you aren't half of what he is.

You might have been to several games, but I played the game for 8 years. I know what defensemen are and aren't supposed to do. You won't find one knowledgeable hockey person anywhere who would have a problem with a defenseman who has the puck and a path to the net taking that chance. Not one.

Now if you're talking about a defenseman WITHOUT the puck pinching in too far in the offensive zone along the boards or getting caught in too deep, then yes that is a problem. That is what leads to odd-man chances the other way. Goligoski often gets caught in those situations. But if he has the puck and a path toward the net and a scoring chance, he is SUPPOSED to take it. That's when it becomes the responsibility of the off-wing to cycle back and protect along the blue line. It's not some sort of thing where you're only allowed to drive the net with the puck if you're PK Subban. PLENTY of other defensemen do it. Now maybe Goligoski is a bit reckless when he does it, in which case that's something he needs to work on. But saying he must stay back at the blue line because he is Alex Goligoski is just flat-out wrong. Sorry, but it is.

 

[ESPN Refugee]

Agreed. Nothing wrong with defenseman being aggressive if they have the puck. This is the type of style this team wants to go in and many teams are trying to do. That said the blame doesn't only lie on blue line but rather the whole team defense as a whole. There are numerous occasions where the forwards are making critical defensive mistakes and not carrying their load.

 

[terpsfball09]

You might have been to several games, but I played the game for 8 years. I know what defensemen are and aren't supposed to do. You won't find one knowledgeable hockey person anywhere who would have a problem with a defenseman who has the puck and a path to the net taking that chance. Not one.

Now if you're talking about a defenseman WITHOUT the puck pinching in too far in the offensive zone along the boards or getting caught in too deep, then yes that is a problem. That is what leads to odd-man chances the other way. Goligoski often gets caught in those situations. But if he has the puck and a path toward the net and a scoring chance, he is SUPPOSED to take it. That's when it becomes the responsibility of the off-wing to cycle back and protect along the blue line. It's not some sort of thing where you're only allowed to drive the net with the puck if you're PK Subban. PLENTY of other defensemen do it. Now maybe Goligoski is a bit reckless when he does it, in which case that's something he needs to work on. But saying he must stay back at the blue line because he is Alex Goligoski is just flat-out wrong. Sorry, but it is.

My argument was that goose, at constant points yesterday, would take the puck from the blue line and drive it on a collapsing defense that almost guaranteed a turnover. Then, he'd get in too deep and they would pin him against the boards, not allowing him to get back. I'm fine with aggresive defenses, but if its at the cost of, ya know actually playing defense, then absolutely not. Goose had been playing so well recently, and for some reason today it was almost as if he saw Subban and said "I'm gonna be extra aggresive like him today" and he can't. I'm not saying he can't TRY, but he simply isn't good enough, and he left Kari out to dry. Plain and simple.

He even said it post game. He went out of his comfort zone a little bit and left his goalie out to dry, and Kari played a hell of a game but its not easy to prevent goals when its constant 2-1 or even 3-1 easy crossing opportunities. Those were his words. Now, the rest of team tried to say "oh well it was the team that left Kari out to dry" but it was the defense. Namely Goligoski. He didn't play well last night, and there is absolutely no doubt about that. He's allowed to be aggresive. I don't care about that. But if his aggression leads to multiple opportunities time after time after time the other way in one game then he needs to stop

 

[terpsfball09]

Is there a ticket exchange place on these boards? Or is that not allowed. I figure that if we're selling tickets to people on these boards then we can place them at a nice discount. I have a ton of Stars tickets I wont be able to use and when baseball season starts up the same can be said for box seats at those games that my friend invites me to. I figure if I give you guys a nice discount, somewhere down the road when I want tickets I'll get the same thought

 

[ESPN Refugee]

Is there a ticket exchange place on these boards? Or is that not allowed. I figure that if we're selling tickets to people on these boards then we can place them at a nice discount. I have a ton of Stars tickets I wont be able to use and when baseball season starts up the same can be said for box seats at those games that my friend invites me to. I figure if I give you guys a nice discount, somewhere down the road when I want tickets I'll get the same thought

I may be interested at some point tho my requirement is usually getting aisle seats

 

[WilltheThrill]

My argument was that goose, at constant points yesterday, would take the puck from the blue line and drive it on a collapsing defense that almost guaranteed a turnover. Then, he'd get in too deep and they would pin him against the boards, not allowing him to get back. I'm fine with aggresive defenses, but if its at the cost of, ya know actually playing defense, then absolutely not. Goose had been playing so well recently, and for some reason today it was almost as if he saw Subban and said "I'm gonna be extra aggresive like him today" and he can't. I'm not saying he can't TRY, but he simply isn't good enough, and he left Kari out to dry. Plain and simple.

He even said it post game. He went out of his comfort zone a little bit and left his goalie out to dry, and Kari played a hell of a game but its not easy to prevent goals when its constant 2-1 or even 3-1 easy crossing opportunities. Those were his words. Now, the rest of team tried to say "oh well it was the team that left Kari out to dry" but it was the defense. Namely Goligoski. He didn't play well last night, and there is absolutely no doubt about that. He's allowed to be aggresive. I don't care about that. But if his aggression leads to multiple opportunities time after time after time the other way in one game then he needs to stop

Well you are definitely correct that it's possible for defensemen to become too aggressive and get pinned in too far in the offensive zone.

I can't figure Goligoski out to be honest. The talent is there for sure. He wasn't a top-rated prospect all throughout juniors and initially with the Penguins for nothing. Every now and then he gives us all a glimpse of that potential. But too often he's either overly-aggressive (trying to do too much/out of position) or too passive (unsure of himself/lazy passes/careless turnovers). He might just turn out to be one of the many professional athletes who showed so much promise but never fulfilled it.

Nieuwendyk had the right idea- trade a disgruntled James Neal for one of Pittsburgh 's surplus of top young defensemen. He just picked the wrong one. Had he asked for Letang instead of Goligoski, nobody would regret that trade at all. Neal had already committed to leaving anyway, so the idea of getting something of value back was smart. Just picked the wrong guy.

 

[terpsfball09]

I may be interested at some point tho my requirement is usually getting aisle seats

See I'm different. I hate aisle seats because you have to get up all the damn time for people who can't control their bladder. I like to just sit down for 3 periods in a row and take in a game. I like sitting in the middle for this

 

[terpsfball09]

Well you are definitely correct that it's possible for defensemen to become too aggressive and get pinned in too far in the offensive zone.

I can't figure Goligoski out to be honest. The talent is there for sure. He wasn't a top-rated prospect all throughout juniors and initially with the Penguins for nothing. Every now and then he gives us all a glimpse of that potential. But too often he's either overly-aggressive (trying to do too much/out of position) or too passive (unsure of himself/lazy passes/careless turnovers). He might just turn out to be one of the many professional athletes who showed so much promise but never fulfilled it.

Nieuwendyk had the right idea- trade a disgruntled James Neal for one of Pittsburgh 's surplus of top young defensemen. He just picked the wrong one. Had he asked for Letang instead of Goligoski, nobody would regret that trade at all. Neal had already committed to leaving anyway, so the idea of getting something of value back was smart. Just picked the wrong guy.

Letang would've been so nice. But I'm fine with Goligoski the way he had played the previous 5-10 games. But yesterday its almost as if he said "I'm gonna change who I am today" and it put us in a ton of tough spots.

 

[terpsfball09]

We're playing a game against a very winnable team tomorrow. Hopefully we get back on track. Reports are that Seguin has the flu and could miss, which would be huge because Detroit struggles on defense outside of kronwall. We need to WIN tomorrow and get 2 points because a bunch of road games lie ahead. I'll be at the game, and the 4 other times I've seen us play detroit we've lost 3 of them.... Detroit has struggled this year but they are very strong on the road for whatever reason. Either way, we should be able to pull it out. Hopefully Seguin plays and we get 2. I don't care how we do it and I don't care how it looks, but we need 2

 

[WilltheThrill]

I got a question for you guys. Since this question involves all 4 of our local teams and different posters post in different threads, I will post this question in the team threads of all 4. Feel free to answer in just one thread or multiple. Here it is:

Based on current team roster, minor league/farm talent, current ownership and management, salary cap situation, and financial state, rank the 4 local teams based on expected success (playoffs, titles, winning seasons, etc.) over the next 5 years.

My rankings are:

1) Rangers (loaded team, loaded farm, loaded owners)
2) Stars (solid team, great farm/youth, good financial situation)
3) Cowboys (decent team, fair youth, loaded owner, idiot GM, weak division)
4) Mavs (solid team, absolutely zero youth, loaded owner, way too many loaded teams in the West)

I debated putting the Mavs 3rd and Cowboys last because I don't ever see the Cowboys winning anything with Jerry around. But I just think that once Dirk retires, the Mavs will bottom out and rebuild. Monta Ellis is not enough to convince other top young free agents to sign with Dallas.

Thoughts?

 

[terpsfball09]

switch 3 and 4 for me. it would be the stars in the lead but the rangers already have so much money and veteran talent. stars have better youth imo and in a few years it could be different. As tough as the stars conference is, the al west is shaping up to me a much tougher division in the coming years. Teams are spending more and there's just no way that the angels are gonna struggle this year as bad as they did last year. Too much talent

 

[Justinkm83]

switch 3 and 4 for me. it would be the stars in the lead but the rangers already have so much money and veteran talent. stars have better youth imo and in a few years it could be different. As tough as the stars conference is, the al west is shaping up to me a much tougher division in the coming years. Teams are spending more and there's just no way that the angels are gonna struggle this year as bad as they did last year. Too much talent

That's what I said. I had 3 and 4 switched. I answered it on the Mavs board.