OT - Sixers

[eaglesnut]

You actually proved the point of everyone that does not want Ball. Based on that chart it is obvious he cannot shoot the spot up jumper that is going to be needed. It is not about percentages. It is about how obvious a weakness it is. My interpretation is that if there is traffic he cannot get the shot off.

Ding, ding, ding.

 

[LegoDoom]

Ok sure and Ball was embarrassed on national television in the tourney by Fox. Do you prefer him?

Nice deflection. Your stupid comment about being locked down by Fultz didn't work out, so you go towards a bad game that Ball had.

How were Fultz's stats in the tournament?

 

[LegoDoom]

And Fultz torched him for 38 in that game. (9-19 shooting, 5-10 3 from 3) 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 steals

38? Those are minutes, not points.

And Lonzo only played 31 minutes for those stats.

 

[PhillyGreen]

38?

My bad.....looked at the wrong number.....did not even register the math did not add up.

 

[knowyourenemy]

They played each other. Ball had:

22 points (7-12 shooting, 4-7 from 3), 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 4 steals

Yeah... he had lots of problems getting his shot off.

And Fultz torched him for 38 in that game. (9-19 shooting, 5-10 3 from 3) 6 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 steals

Neither guarded the other for decent portions of that game, if I remember correctly. Also, Fultz's defensive efforts were suspect in college. He has the ability but his team really needed him to focus more on his offensive game.

Honestly, they're just different players. I'm not sure Fultz would guard Ball in the NBA. But what does it really matter? Ball is not going to kill any team with his scoring.

 

[eaglesnut]

Nice deflection. Your stupid comment about being locked down by Fultz didn't work out, so you go towards a bad game that Ball had.

How were Fultz's stats in the tournament?

Biggest game of his career and he failed straight up against Fox.

Fultz played with scrubs. The two guys he was going to play with when he committed went to the league. Like an honorable young man he stuck it out anyway and scored and scored and then scored some more.

 

[LegoDoom]

You don't know one way or the other because he stayed away from those situations. When you take a guy in the top 3 who hasn't shown he can do it, it certainly would make me worry. A decent percentage on a very small sample size doesn't tell me much.

Rey, I am not the one arguing that he's bad at midrange shots. You are. And you're doing it with very little data.

So, if you don't know one way or the other, then maybe you shouldn't keep saying how bad he is at it.

 

[PhillyGreen]

Neither guarded the other for decent portions of that game, if I remember correctly. Also, Fultz's defensive efforts were suspect in college. He has the ability but his team really needed him to focus more on his offensive game.

Honestly, they're just different players. I'm not sure Fultz would guard Ball in the NBA. But what does it really matter? Ball is not going to kill any team with his scoring.

I agree....IMO Fultz is a better defender. I think overall Fultz is the better player as does just about everyone else. I think Ball is going to be a brilliant PG but not an elite scorer.

 

[PhillyGreen]

Rey, I am not the one arguing that he's bad at midrange shots. You are. And you're doing it with very little data.

So, if you don't know one way or the other, then maybe you shouldn't keep saying how bad he is at it.

But you are arguing that he is a good midrage scorer unless I am mistaken. There is no data that shows he is. In fact the data shows that he does not attempt so score from midrange. That makes him a poor fit for us.

 

[eaglesnut]

Honestly, they're just different players. I'm not sure Fultz would guard Ball in the NBA. But what does it really matter? Ball is not going to kill any team with his scoring.

It matters because you've been arguing for Ball when this Sixers team needs a scorer. A scorer like Fultz.

 

[eaglesnut]

Rey, I am not the one arguing that he's bad at midrange shots. You are. And you're doing it with very little data.

So, if you don't know one way or the other, then maybe you shouldn't keep saying how bad he is at it.

He's so pathetically bad at it he can't even get shots off in the mid-range unless he is wide open. You are the one without data.

 

[knowyourenemy]

Rey, I am not the one arguing that he's bad at midrange shots. You are. And you're doing it with very little data.

So, if you don't know one way or the other, then maybe you shouldn't keep saying how bad he is at it.

There is a reason he didn't take many mid-range shots in college. Whether it was by choice (because he has high percentage rates at the basket and from beyond 3) or whether it was inability to get his shot off in that range, or maybe a combination of both, we don't know. It's fact that he has not established a strong mid-range aspect to his game. Without the data, we can't just assume that part of his game exists. It's a big question mark for him -- but luckily for whoever drafts him, he can probably do pretty well in the league based on his athleticism, vision/passing, and 3-point proficiency. Given his funky shot mechanics, it's not unreasonable to think that his mechanics have something to do with the low number of attempts that he took from mid-range.

 

[knowyourenemy]

It matters because you've been arguing for Ball when this Sixers team needs a scorer. A scorer like Fultz.

I haven't argued anything for Ball. He's #9 on my list of the top 9 prospects (as far as guys I'd want the 76ers to take):

2017 NBA Offseason Thread

 

[LegoDoom]

Biggest game of his career and he failed straight up against Fox.

Fultz played with scrubs. The two guys he was going to play with when he committed went to the league. Like an honorable young man he stuck it out anyway and scored and scored and then scored some more.

Did you even watch the game? Kentucky used high screens against Ball and UCLA was terrible at switching. But yeah, it was all Lonzo's fault.

That being said, Lonzo isn't a lock down defensive player. I will give him some leeway with regards to that, though. After all, he's only played defense for a year.

 

[eaglesnut]

I haven't argued anything for Ball. He's #9 on my list of the top 9 prospects (as far as guys I'd want the 76ers to take):

2017 NBA Offseason Thread

Sorry, mixed you up with LegoDoom who has been arguing for the worse player.

 

[eaglesnut]

Did you even watch the game? Kentucky used high screens against Ball and UCLA was terrible at switching. But yeah, it was all Lonzo's fault.

That being said, Lonzo isn't a lock down defensive player. I will give him some leeway with regards to that, though. After all, he's only played defense for a year.

Yes, Fox ran over Ball and UCLA to the tune of 39 points and sent Ball and UCLA packing.

 

[LegoDoom]

But you are arguing that he is a good midrage scorer unless I am mistaken. There is no data that shows he is. In fact the data shows that he does not attempt so score from midrange. That makes him a poor fit for us.

I am not arguing that he's a good midrange scorer (although the stats certainly don't show that he is a bad one. they show he's an efficient, low usage midrange player).

I am arguing that he doesn't shoot from midrange because shooting from 3 and at the rim has better value. And that even if he turns out to be bad from midrange, then it is the least important tier of the 3.

Realizing that a midrange shot has the least value should be a positive trait and not looked upon negatively. Steph Curry shot 5 times more 3's than he did midrange shots. There is simply little value in those type of shots when you shoot 40% from 3 and 75% from the rim. What did you want him to do? Pass up a better shot selection for a poorer one?

And it's not like I dislike Fultz or even think the trade was bad. I think Fultz is very good and a great fit for the current team.

 

[LegoDoom]

Yes, Fox ran over Ball and UCLA to the tune of 39 points and sent Ball and UCLA packing.

Well, since Fox ran over Ball and Fultz didn't, then Fox should be the #1 pick. Right?

 

[LegoDoom]

I feel like this is the scene from Moneyball where the scouts are saying that one prospect will be good because he looks like a pro player while another one won't be good because he has an ugly girlfriend.

 

[PhillyGreen]

I am arguing that he doesn't shoot from midrange because shooting from 3 and at the rim has better value. And that even if he turns out to be bad from midrange, then it is the least important tier of the 3.

I think it is because it is a shot he has difficulty getting off. The very low number of mid range shots taken is major alarm for me. To me it shows it is a shot that he has difficulty getting off. I could be wrong but that is how I interpret it. A total of 25 shots taken from mid range is ridiculously low. He does get a lot of layups.......Sixers do not need him making all those layups. His shot chart shows that he is a poor fit for the Sixers

Realizing that a midrange shot has the least value should be a positive trait and not looked upon negatively. Steph Curry shot 5 times more 3's than he did midrange shots. There is simply little value in those type of shots when you shoot 40% from 3 and 75% from the rim. What did you want him to do? Pass up a better shot selection for a poorer one?

Fultz does not play Curry's game. Neither does ball. I think that is a bad example. Curry is a sniper.....who has an insane quick release. He takes a lot of contested shots as well. His release is so fast defenders get there too late. Ball could never shoot like that.