OT - Sixers

[LegoDoom]

I love the trade. I think Fultz is easily the best player in the draft. I am still not sold on Ball. I have major concerns about his jumper at the next level.

Yeah, the guys that regularly drain 30 footers usually have problems scoring.

 

[PhillyGreen]

Yeah, the guys that regularly drain 30 footers usually have problems scoring.

and that was not my point. I am sure you have read my other posts about this and my stance is still the same. It is not whether he can make a jumper. I have already said that his shots drop once he releases and his release is quick. My concern is getting the shot to the release point. Ball's shot is ugly enough it starts at the waist level. I am concerned on how that will translate in the NBA when defenses press him.

 

[LegoDoom]

I'm not sure if you've seen him play, but pressing him opens up a lot of bad things for the defense. He's 6'6", with a good wingspan, and has great range. Who is guarding him that he's not going around or shooting over? Combining all of that with an exceptional basketball IQ and I am really not sure what the downside is other than "he has a funny looking shot."

 

[old duke]

They were going to be giving up a 1st round pick. For a minute it sounded like it might be two. If this is the cat they want, I'm all for it. He's been the consensus #1 pick. Don't know why you'd bother to wonder if Ball is better than him, I'd rather have Fox or Smith over Ball. But none of that matters. Who cares about future picks. Sixers still have a ton. Only thing that matters is Embiid staying healthy.

Agree with you, Taddy!

 

[Rey]

I'm fine with the trade ... it's only one future pick we're giving up and even though I like the other options we would have had available at 3, Fultz gives us everything we need to compliment both Embiid and Simmons. I would have been "ok" with Ball at 3 as I think his 3-ball will still be effective at the next level and he's an excellent set-up guy, however Fultz will be superior in driving to the cup as a scorer at the pro level. Ball simply can't drive "right" and pull up because he has to bring the ball all the way back to the left on that funky shot ... in the pros team's will make him go right all day long and use that shot form against him. Ball does not project as a true scorer at the next level while Fultz does ... and that's what the Sixers truly needed to compliment Embiid's inside abilities. Fultz is a clean prospect (just turned 19 less than a month ago) who's only flaw (if you can call it that) is a 65% FT % which isn't even that bad and is something that can easily improve. Before long he's going to be a 22+ ppg scorer while Ball projects more to a 14-15 ppg guy. We're getting the better, more complete player who's a tremendous fit on this team.

 

[LegoDoom]

We're getting the better, more complete player who's a tremendous fit on this team.

I totally agree that Fultz is a tremendous fit on the team. My main argument was that I think Ball is as well and may even be the better prospect. And the Sixers gave up a lottery pick in order to move up.

But whatever... the trade is finalized. Let's bink the #1 pick with the Lakers pick next year and then we can make fun of me for complaining about it.

The Celtics are a good team and have a lot of assets in the coming years. I hope we didn't help them out too much as we'll be meeting them in the playoffs for years to come.

 

[Iggloo]

It's a risky trade IMO but at least they have the protection of keeping the pick if it is 1 overall next year.

 

[Rey]

I totally agree that Fultz is a tremendous fit on the team. My main argument was that I think Ball is as well and may even be the better prospect. And the Sixers gave up a lottery pick in order to move up.

I think Ball has a much better chance to reach his potential elsewhere on a team where he will be the unquestioned PG and primary ball handler. Plus that funky shot to me is a huge question mark at the pro level in every way aside from 3 pointers; in the post, fades/turnarounds, driving right etc ... His value aside from 3's will be in leading breaks and setting people up; that's already Simmons' role. Fultz gives us the 3 point game we would have gotten from Ball, but also gives us all around scoring in many other ways that I think Ball would have struggled with.

 

[Gman]

It's an interesting trade... as close to a 50/50, split decision, can't tell who "won" swap as I can recall in recent history in the NBA.

Obviously, who won and who lost this one depends on the development of Fultz... but we won't know that story for many years...

For the C's... have to believe that Trader Danny is not done wheeling and dealing...

 

[LegoDoom]

Ball simply can't drive "right" and pull up because he has to bring the ball all the way back to the left on that funky shot ... in the pros team's will make him go right all day long and use that shot form against him.

I keep hearing this criticism. He developed his form because players kept taking away his right hand. He shoots from the left because he couldn't shoot from the right. If players give him his right, he's going to take it. And even if it's true, do you have any idea how often top shooters pull up from midrange as opposed to going to the rim or shooting the 3? Players with Lonzo's range shoot the three 2-3+ times more than shooting a long 2. And for someone like Steph, it's more like 5 times.

Yes, Fultz is a 3-tier scorer, but Lonzo is elite at the rim and from 3. Both of those are much more important than a midrange game. I mean, Lonzo had a 67.3 TS% vs 55.8% from Fultz and they had almost identical 3P percentages and similar FT%.

I agree that Fultz is the better true scorer, but I think that's mainly with the ball in his hands and that Lonzo plays better off-ball and makes every player better. Given that Simmons will be handling the ball at least half of the time, I don't think that's a bad thing. I think Lonzo is a better slasher without the ball, which is what the Sixers needs to compliment Simmons.

Again, I don't mind either. I just have a problem giving up a future lottery pick in order to take a marginally (if at all) better player. Having said all that, Colangelo didn't get completely fleeced by Ainge (which I expected).

 

[LegoDoom]

I think Ball has a much better chance to reach his potential elsewhere on a team where he will be the unquestioned PG and primary ball handler. Plus that funky shot to me is a huge question mark at the pro level in every way aside from 3 pointers; in the post, fades/turnarounds, driving right etc ... His value aside from 3's will be in leading breaks and setting people up; that's already Simmons' role. Fultz gives us the 3 point game we would have gotten from Ball, but also gives us all around scoring in many other ways that I think Ball would have struggled with.

I just don't get this. Fultz drives/creates much better with the ball in his hands. Lonzo's basketball IQ is so high that he knows what to do without the ball in his hands. Having two players that create isn't a bad thing. Especially if one of those is a great 3 point shooter, can finish at the rim, and is good on the break.

Now, Fultz will be a great spot up shooter without the ball in his hands (which the Sixers need), but besides that I'd bet that Lonzo would be the better off-ball player.

 

[LegoDoom]

Obviously, who won and who lost this one depends on the development of Fultz...

The future Celtics lottery pick will also play a good part in deciding this, IMO.

 

[Rey]

I just don't get this. Fultz drives/creates much better with the ball in his hands. Lonzo's basketball IQ is so high that he knows what to do without the ball in his hands. Having two players that create isn't a bad thing. Especially if one of those is a great 3 point shooter, can finish at the rim, and is good on the break.

Now, Fultz will be a great spot up shooter without the ball in his hands (which the Sixers need), but besides that I'd bet that Lonzo would be the better off-ball player.

I'm not saying that we couldn't fit Lonzo in to what we do ... I'm saying that "for Lonzo" he can better reach his potential on a team where he would be the primary ball handler.

 

[Rey]

I keep hearing this criticism. He developed his form because players kept taking away his right hand. He shoots from the left because he couldn't shoot from the right. If players give him his right, he's going to take it. And even if it's true, do you have any idea how often top shooters pull up from midrange as opposed to going to the rim or shooting the 3? Players with Lonzo's range shoot the three 2-3+ times more than shooting a long 2. And for someone like Steph, it's more like 5 times.

Yes, Fultz is a 3-tier scorer, but Lonzo is elite at the rim and from 3. Both of those are much more important than a midrange game. I mean, Lonzo had a 67.3 TS% vs 55.8% from Fultz and they had almost identical 3P percentages and similar FT%.

I agree that Fultz is the better true scorer, but I think that's mainly with the ball in his hands and that Lonzo plays better off-ball and makes every player better. Given that Simmons will be handling the ball at least half of the time, I don't think that's a bad thing. I think Lonzo is a better slasher without the ball, which is what the Sixers needs to compliment Simmons.

Again, I don't mind either. I just have a problem giving up a future lottery pick in order to take a marginally (if at all) better player. Having said all that, Colangelo didn't get completely fleeced by Ainge (which I expected).

The pro game and college game are different in that I see Ball struggling more inside 3 point land at the pro level than he did in college. There's a lot of easy buckets in the college game where you have to be more refined to score in the pros; I see that wind up hitch in Ball's game as a potential problem when creating his own shots outside of the 3's whereas I don't see that issue with Fultz.

 

[LegoDoom]

Moving on (as the team won't be drafting Ball)....

Do the Sixers still look to add Lowry, Hill, or Holiday?

Can they recover a future 1st by taking on a big contract from the Lakers? Not sure the Lakers would give up a their '19 1st, but if it gets them in a position to add Paul George+ to Ingram and Ball, then maybe they'd be willing?

 

[TheSnowdog]

I don't mind the trade
Reports had the Sixers giving up both the Lakers pick and the Sac pick

I didn't like the trade where they were possibly giving up Saric
Also if Sixers didn't do the trade sure they would have the future lottery pick but there is uncertainty with both the Lakers pick and Sac pick
But even with the Lakers pick if it is #1 Sixers keep it

And if Sixers didn't do the trade then Boston more than likely would have done the trade with another team
There was no guarantee that Ball or Fultz would drop to the Sixers at 3
I in no way wanted the Sixers to trade with Lakers and possibly having to take back either the Deng or Mozgov contract but that is just personal for me - I have friends who are Laker fans and I enjoy trolling them about those contracts

If Sixers felt that Fultz was their guy I feel they made a good trade to guarantee that they get him
They still will have either the extra Lakers pick next year or the Sac pick the following year
and they still have Okafor as trade bait possibly - I am probably in the minority here but I still think that Okafor could be a productive double-double player in the NBA but do agree that he doesn't fit with the Sixers
Sixers also have 4 2nd round picks this year

Lots of assets still there for the Sixers

 

[Gman]

The future Celtics lottery pick will also play a good part in deciding this, IMO.

You're right... I wouldn't be shocked if Ainge trades the pick, though.

 

[LegoDoom]

And if Sixers didn't do the trade then Boston more than likely would have done the trade with another team

It's possible, but either the Celtics wanted Jackson all along or wanted future lottery assets. If they wanted Jackson, then they couldn't move further than #3. If they wanted future lottery picks, then there aren't a lot of teams in a good position to move one. Ainge even said so much when when talking about Lakers offer.

In theory, this could be a good trade for both teams, but Boston has a huge upside for taking a player/situation that they may have wanted all along.

At least the Sixers kept some equity for getting the #1 pick next year. That's important.

 

[Iggloo]

There is a lot of speculation that Ainge is just acquiring assets to trade for veteran players.

In terms of how the trade turns out, of course it will primarily depend on whether Fulz is the clear best player in the draft class, and whether he provides the scoring punch the Sixers desperately need.

But there will be an element of chance to it, since we don't know how the Lakers ping pong ball will bounce a year from now. The ideal scenario will be us getting the #1 overall pick again next year, or course. But the ultimate outcome will really vary depending on what these Lakers and Kings picks wind up being.

 

[LegoDoom]

There is a lot of speculation that Ainge is just acquiring assets to trade for veteran players.

Giving up the #3 and the future Sixers pick to add Hayward and Butler while keeping the Nets pick next year wouldn't be a bad idea. Ainge either wanted Jackson or wanted to get enough picks to trade for Butler and still keep a lottery pick. I hope Embiid, Simmons, and Fultz is enough to compete with that Celtics team that could have 3 top 20 players.