OT: Joe Pa done

[tomikcon1971]

Madden: Sandusky a State secret - Timesonline.com: Mark Madden:

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

An assumption was made that Joe Pa contacted his lawyer. Let me play this devil's advocate game and say the vp and the athletic director also contacted their lawyers. Didn't get the greatest advice did they? Sure Joe Pa contacted his lawyer, or did he just try to cover this up to protect his friend and his football program?

Yeah, you're right. After reading a few more stories about it.....there's just no way around the fact that Paterno let it go. Sounds like after the first allegations in 98 they just made Sandusky retire.....one article said the molestation stuff was an open secret in the football world, which was why such a successful coach first got fired then never got another job.

Sounds like the whole PSU crew must have been good with just letting him go and keeping it quiet with the first incident. How they did it all over again in 2002 is just mind-boggling.

 

[MHSL82]

Don't even have to open this article, this doesn't make any sense. If you truly wanted to clean house, un-blemish the program, and hold everyone accountable then how do you not fire the guy that saw it first hand!? Especially after firing everyone else.

Related question: I heard some host on ESPN alluding to an anti-retaliation policy against whistleblowers as a reason for not firing the witness. But how is the witness a whistleblower and Paterno not? Both reported this to non-state authorities and neither to actual police. Neither should be protected as a whistleblower when they blew no whistle. Or is this all known now because the witness NOW came forward? If he was the one who now came forward, it seems to fire him would be to punish his doing the right thing now - though I do think he should not be spared his job because of it, if so. Doing the right thing is the reward, firing is the punishment (if not more) for not doing it earlier.

Also, is a whistleblower limited to the first to report? It can't be because I would have no incentive to push forward (other than my honor, dignity, etc.). If it is everyone who reports to an authority of any kind, I would just pass it up the chain and call myself a whistleblower for protection (if I were as morally confused as they were). (This wouldn't be just me giving myself a title, it would be me threatening to sue if retaliated for just telling the truth) Regardless to whom? Does it just have to be a report to a third party or does it have to be an authority who then retaliates? Is Paterno enough of an authority to qualify? Would Sandusky have to be the retaliator or the university suffice? (I'd say the university, but I don't accept the witness as a whistleblower)

I have to admit I'm not thinking straight. I'm sure I could answer my own questions with a little thought and research - but to me, this isn't something worth my time - to research how these scumbags could get less blame? No thank you. I think they've done enough (or lack thereof) to warrant whatever they get and more. I'd maybe defend them (except Sandusky) if the punishment was the electric chair. The punishment of being fired, looked down on by the public, threats? Don't care enough (about them) to defend.

 

[sayheykid1]

Unsure of the truth. I haven't been responding to any non-level-headed posters till now. I don't see you or anyone else trying to make a difference as a direct activist in any sexual abuse prevention hotlines and/or meeting groups. How far removed are you from the responsibility of protecting victims like the ones who were taken advantage of by Sandusky? when 1 in 7 children are sexually abused! so don't tell me it's not relevant in your life.

So because Joe Paterno might have been foggy about what happened between a man he allowed in his locker room and a child in the showers in his locker room he shouldn't have done more? Perhaps it was just a grownup showering with a kid and horsing around or a little fondling?

When did I say anything about the relevancy of child abuse in my life?

I am posting my opinion on a sports forum just like you and my opinion is that more should have been done.

 

[tomikcon1971]

Penn State tragedy: Barry Switzer says Joe Paterno had to go | NewsOK.com

 

[MHSL82]

So because Joe Paterno might have been foggy about what happened between a man he allowed in his locker room and a child in the showers in his locker room he shouldn't have done more? Perhaps it was just a grownup showering with a kid and horsing around or a little fondling?

When did I say anything about the relevancy of child abuse in my life?

I am posting my opinion on a sports forum just like you and my opinion is that more should have been done.

I happen to fall on your side of the argument, but I think he was just saying that to pre-empt something he thought you might respond to his statement with. If you responded to him by saying that Paterno had this happen next to him, he'd be saying that 1 in 7 are abused so it happened next to you, too. Though this seems to (accidentally) assume you know about these and would not or have not reported them yourself. Someone was murdered on my block and I didn't know about it until after the guy was arrested. The fact that it happened doesn't make me guilty of anything, though it's relevant to me. Only if I knew about it and said nothing would it bring culpability to me.

Speaking of which, have you guys heard about the Kitty_Genovese case? I've heard some mitigating facts to it and some evidence of misreporting and exaggeration, but if true, sounds pretty bad, too.

 

[I_am_1z]

I happen to fall on your side of the argument, but I think he was just saying that to pre-empt something he thought you might respond to his statement with. If you responded to him by saying that Paterno had this happen next to him, he'd be saying that 1 in 7 are abused so it happened next to you, too. Though this seems to (accidentally) assume you know about these and would not or have not reported them yourself. Someone was murdered on my block and I didn't know about it until after the guy was arrested. The fact that it happened doesn't make me guilty of anything, though it's relevant to me. Only if I knew about it and said nothing would it bring culpability to me.

Speaking of which, have you guys heard about the Kitty_Genovese case? I've heard some mitigating facts to it and some evidence of misreporting and exaggeration, but if true, sounds pretty bad, too.

I was trying to measure how much of a standup person he is. If you're going to be so passionate about a particular issue like this one here, I think you should pursue it and become an activist. Or else what you're saying to me is, 'yeah I can trash this guy about not doing what I think is the right thing, but heck if I actually do something that can positively affect many lives'.


Yes, Kitty Genovese was one of the 1st things that came to mind. Again if we're assuming they knew exactly what happened and thought someone would be responsible enough to report to the police, but didn't, then they're all perpetrators. I think this case is the sole reason people stop themselves and say, "I know I wasn't in his/her position, but..."

 

[iHATEdodgers]

I was trying to measure how much of a standup person he is. If you're going to be so passionate about a particular issue like this one here, I think you should pursue it and become an activist. Or else what you're saying to me is, 'yeah I can trash this guy about not doing what I think is the right thing, but heck if I actually do something that can positively affect many lives'.
Yes, Kitty Genovese was one of the 1st things that came to mind. Again if we're assuming they knew exactly what happened and thought someone would be responsible enough to report to the police, but didn't, then they're all perpetrators. I think this case is the sole reason people stop themselves and say, "I know I wasn't in his/her position, but..."

I'm trying not to be offensive (but I am about to fail)... that bold part is so fucking dumb I can't believe it. "Put your money where your mouth is or your opinion is meaningless." Really?

We are posting on a sports website about a sensational and horrifying case dude! Going by your own statements unless you go out and become a defense lawyer for assholes and cowards you too are just an internet blowhard and we shouldn't take you seriously and you should desist from posting further until you go out and become a defense lawyer for douchebags. You are way up on a high horse with that asinine statement, come off it man.

It's really simple: Paterno heard about an old man naked in the shower with a young boy in the middle of the night - and he didn't do much about it, likewise nobody else did either. Accordingly most people think he (and others) are douches. You decided to take the other side for some reason and your arguments are falling apart so you resort to "Unless you are actually doing something about these types of crimes you are just aren't a good person and your opinions are therefore invalid and I win." Ridiculous. Asinine. Juvenile.

 

[coffeeman]

Yeah, you're right. After reading a few more stories about it.....there's just no way around the fact that Paterno let it go. Sounds like after the first allegations in 98 they just made Sandusky retire.....one article said the molestation stuff was an open secret in the football world, which was why such a successful coach first got fired then never got another job.

Sounds like the whole PSU crew must have been good with just letting him go and keeping it quiet with the first incident. How they did it all over again in 2002 is just mind-boggling.

The entire thing is mind-boggling. To quote a reporter" Let’s not ignore the timing of the release of the grotesque and shocking grand jury report/indictments, conveniently revealed a week after Paterno surpassed Grambling’s Eddie Robinson on the all-time wins list. A two-year investigation wrapped up just as JoePa placed a bow on his legacy and 11 months after Paterno testified in front of the grand jury examining Sandusky’s alleged two decades of heinous perversion."

 

[Ray_Dogg]

The entire thing is mind-boggling. To quote a reporter" Let’s not ignore the timing of the release of the grotesque and shocking grand jury report/indictments, conveniently revealed a week after Paterno surpassed Grambling’s Eddie Robinson on the all-time wins list. A two-year investigation wrapped up just as JoePa placed a bow on his legacy and 11 months after Paterno testified in front of the grand jury examining Sandusky’s alleged two decades of heinous perversion."

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW.

 

[CalamityX11]

Apparently the mother of the boy was afraid to testify or didn't want to or something along those lines. Not sure if she was embarrassed by it and didn't want to put her kid out there??

Not to intentionally stirr things up, but that makes the mother no better based on what's being used against Joe IMO....

This whole thing is really terrible...

you know, how did this investigation started? or why is it just coming up now anyways?

 

[CalamityX11]

Per the ESPN ticker, Franco Harris is behind Joe Pa...

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Brian Jennings' thoughts on the topic:

49ers' Jennings: Penn State scandal lessons - NFC West Blog - ESPN

 

[tallglassofwater007]

Not to intentionally stirr things up, but that makes the mother no better based on what's being used against Joe IMO....

Totally. If you don't take a stand and try to put the guy away, you are essentially letting him free to keep victimizing children. Who knows, maybe she was payed a visit or something to keep quiet. Or worse...maybe she was paid?? (Not trying to start any wild theories but it's possible)

 

[threelittleturds]

This whole thing is such a strange thing. You try to understand why people would cover it up, like what their motives were... and you can come up with stuff that might make sense. But it doesn't make any sense with how we're all raised.

I mean, really, Penn State just forces him to retire and the High School just tells him that he can't come by anymore... is Penn State really that influential in the area? Where people were afraid to stand up for what is right because they don't want to go against Penn State?

 

[Heathbar012]

This whole thing is such a strange thing. You try to understand why people would cover it up, like what their motives were... and you can come up with stuff that might make sense. But it doesn't make any sense with how we're all raised.

I mean, really, Penn State just forces him to retire and the High School just tells him that he can't come by anymore... is Penn State really that influential in the area? Where people were afraid to stand up for what is right because they don't want to go against Penn State?

Intimidation Valley.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

Madden: Sandusky a State secret - Timesonline.com: Mark Madden:

You caught the date on that article, right? Apparently this guy is ground zero for this scandal......helluva bold move on his part. This is the piece where I got the idea that plenty of people knew about Sandusky, which is why he never worked in football again after 98, when he was only mid-50s.

 

[clyde_carbon]

It's absolutely disgusting. If it's true Penn St. hid this for the football program and Joe Pa's records they should suffer the death penalty. I'm sure the NCAA is more worried about the Dez Bryants having dinner with the Deion Sanders more than this.

 

[Kinzu]

So how does this all reflect back on Penn State if it comes out that Joe Paterno did not know anything about child molestation or he did know and did share his info with others but nothing ever came of it? Is it still seen as ok to fire him or does it then become they failed to stand by someone that devoted his life to them?

Way I see it right now is Penn State let down Joe Paterno by not pushing the investigation on Sandusky. McQueary failed that poor child and any victims that came afterward by not stopping Sandusky and reporting it. Penn State also failed any future victims by not acting upon the information they had.

Penn State is using Paterno to try and distance themselves from a situation they caused themselves. How can people not see that? Paterno is the face of Penn State so by getting rid of him they can now say they are different. Paterno however is not the cause of any of this that we know of so far anyway.

You keep McQueary who is a cowardice piece of cow poo in my opinion, but you fire a man that probably would've died for that school. Then you try to tell people it was the morale thing to do. What a bunch of bullshit...

Guilt til proven innocent and by then it won't matter because the media will have ruined you anyway. That's the judicial way these days -_-

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

So how does this all reflect back on Penn State if it comes out that Joe Paterno did not know anything about child molestation or he did know and did share his info with others but nothing ever came of it?

This doesn't compute though......Sandusky was almost most likely canned in 1998 for the allegations that came up at that time. By the time 2002 rolls around, Paterno has to already be aware that there is a problem in this area.....so when a new story pops up, its hard for him to claim ignorance or confusion.

I do think Paterno did all he HAD to do, and I still think he's taking too much heat for Sandusky's actions......but he would have had to be braindead to honestly ignore separate allegations years apart. Points toward either willful negligence or "I don't want to hear about it" type stuff.

I really don't want to tar and feather the guy, I just don't think he was as complicit as many make him......from everything I've read these are complicated situations and a guy like Paterno is in one of the worst spots of anyone there, where allegations are about a guy he trusted, considered a friend......often that makes it very tough to make the right judgments and decisions.