OT: Joe Pa done

[I_am_1z]

You have a link for that?

I'm assuming Stephen Shelow was the assistant to Gary Shultz.

http://www.police.psu.edu/documents/OrgChart Police & Public Safety.pdf

@Calamity
Here's a legend to help you

Gary Schultz = VP of PSU (whose job includes overseeing PSU police)
Tim Curley = Athletic Director
Mike Mcqueary = The EYE WITNESS, The former QB, The graduate assistant (The red-headed dude on the sidelines)
Jerry Sandusky = The villain
Joe Paterno = The possibly wrongfully terminated HC
Graham Spanier = President of PSU

 

[NinerSickness]

Joe Paterno = The possibly wrongfully terminated HC

Oh hell no.

 

[EaseUrStorm]

The Schultz and Curly purjured themselves. If they don't get jail time in their roles it is a damn shame. Joe Pa wiped his hands clean but also deserves jail time for protecting his friend. If that had been a janitor the outcome would be completely different. The individual who I sympathize with most is the witness. He passed that information on to the authorities of the university and out of all the people, it would be hardest for him to go to the police in the weeks and months afterwards. But he still should have.

It is complete insanity that between Joe Pa, the Athletic Director, Finance VP, and the President, none of them contacted the police. They deserve to be punished as they knowingly allowed a serial ********* to maintain contact with children through his charity on their watch.

 

[NinerSickness]

The individual who I sympathize with most is the witness. He passed that information on to the authorities of the university and out of all the people, it would be hardest for him to go to the police in the weeks and months afterwards. But he still should have.

I sympathize with none of them, much less the witness. Screw him; what he did was cowardice.

 

[I_am_1z]

How did they know? Did they actually see their priests having sex with little boys? How did they any more evidence than the "hearsay" that Paterno had? And there were multiple reports in this case.

Truth is I don't really know. What I remember from being fed by the media was that the Bishops were aware of their behavior and continued to shuffle them into different churches.

If you would allow me to give you another analogy,

Say Joe Pa was the Head Chef of a very prestigious restaurant.
His bus boy comes into tell him that his sous chef (who he's been working with for 30 years) has been seen in the shower inappropriately horsing around with a child around the age of ten.
In disbelief Chef Paterno doesn't immediately call the police, but instead tells the owner of the restaurant, who also happens to have a prominent role in the police force
The owner has a meeting with the bus boy, where he's very vague about specifics
Nothing comes about from this with the exception of Chef Paterno telling his Sous Chef to not bring children into the restaurant anymore just so it's impossible anyone could ever accuse him of such allegations ever again

Is this plausible?

 

[NinerSickness]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimsoncrew
How did they know? Did they actually see their priests having sex with little boys? How did they any more evidence than the "hearsay" that Paterno had? And there were multiple reports in this case.

 

[coffeeman]

Joe Paterno = The possibly wrongfully terminated HC

Easily the most insanely idiotic thing ever written. Not even a close second to be found.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Truth is I don't really know. What I remember from being fed by the media was that the Bishops were aware of their behavior and continued to shuffle them into different churches.

If you would allow me to give you another analogy,

Say Joe Pa was the Head Chef of a very prestigious restaurant.
His bus boy comes into tell him that his sous chef (who he's been working with for 30 years) has been seen in the shower inappropriately horsing around with a child around the age of ten.
In disbelief Chef Paterno doesn't immediately call the police, but instead tells the owner of the restaurant, who also happens to have a prominent role in the police force
The owner has a meeting with the bus boy, where he's very vague about specifics
Nothing comes about from this with the exception of Chef Paterno telling his Sous Chef to not bring children into the restaurant anymore just so it's impossible anyone could ever accuse him of such allegations ever again

Is this plausible?

All signs indicate that Paterno was aware of the behavior.

Your analogy is reasonable, but it misses a few things. Specifically, the sous chef has around-the-clock access to the restaurant and master chef Paterno did nothing to restrict his access. In that case, I think the chef should absolutely suffer if it turns out that the sous chef continued his behavior on restaurant premises.

Joe Paterno is PSU football. It should have been obvious to him that an assistant or even a former assistant engaging in wildly inappropriate behavior (regardless of what he was told, no one disputes that there was a story about a naked man and a naked boy in the shower together) would be a black mark on his record. Frankly, that's almost certainly the reason this was not reported to the police. If he took no further action than to tell Sandusky to stop bringing children around, then he deserves to be punished if Sandusky continued to r*pe children. Any college football coach should realize how important public perception is. It may not be fair, but it's reality.

 

[NinerSickness]

Sick, out of curiosity, who do you trust? And if this is part of your standard, we've seen this sort of behavior in churches, corporations, political parties. You name it, it's it's large enough, a group has covered up something like this.

Here's my standard: You have even the SLIGHTEST evidence, no matter how small, and I don't care if it's second hand, that a child is being sexually abused you tell the police and you tell the kid's parents. No exceptions.

If it's the parent who's suspected of doing the molestation you tell CPS. If you have ANY knowlege of or evidence indicating a child is being molested and you don't go to the police you're complicit and you're a coward in my mind. Get your damn hands a little dirty for the sake of an innocent child!

Those assholes in the Catholic church who molested children should be put to death just like Sandusky should be. Anyone who had knowlege it was happening and didn't go to the police should be flogged IMO.

And let's not get McQueary's witnessing of this horrendous act confused with heresay. Suspicioun and heresay are different than evidence. If you actually talk to an eye witness you are a second hand witness yourself. That is evidence. That's FAR more than what's needed to open a criminal case.

 

[tallglassofwater007]

Truth is I don't really know. What I remember from being fed by the media was that the Bishops were aware of their behavior and continued to shuffle them into different churches.

If you would allow me to give you another analogy,

Say Joe Pa was the Head Chef of a very prestigious restaurant.
His bus boy comes into tell him that his sous chef (who he's been working with for 30 years) has been seen in the shower inappropriately horsing around with a child around the age of ten.
In disbelief Chef Paterno doesn't immediately call the police, but instead tells the owner of the restaurant, who also happens to have a prominent role in the police force
The owner has a meeting with the bus boy, where he's very vague about specifics
Nothing comes about from this with the exception of Chef Paterno telling his Sous Chef to not bring children into the restaurant anymore just so it's impossible anyone could ever accuse him of such allegations ever again

Is this plausible?

The restaurant is sweeping it under the rug just like Penn State did. After the 2nd allegation in 2002 Sandusky was no longer with the team following the season. It's not a coincidence because Paterno knew about it.

What about this scenario.... a guy witnesses a man stab another man at work. He runs and tells his higher up that maybe he just punched him in the stomach because he just can't believe what he saw. They tell the guy to just stop bringing knives to work.

What they all did was just enough to cover their ass at Penn State. It obviously didn't work.

 

[NinerSickness]

Keep in mind EVERY single one of these cowardly pukes have known for 9 YEARS!!!! that nothing was done to this friggn' reprobate.

 

[SeattleNinersFan]

Truth is I don't really know. What I remember from being fed by the media was that the Bishops were aware of their behavior and continued to shuffle them into different churches.

If you would allow me to give you another analogy,

Say Joe Pa was the Head Chef of a very prestigious restaurant.
His bus boy comes into tell him that his Ex-sous chef (who he's been working with for 30 years) has been seen in the shower inappropriately horsing around with a child around the age of ten.
In disbelief Chef Paterno doesn't immediately call the police, but instead tells the owner of the restaurant, who also happens to have a prominent role in the police force
The owner has a meeting with the bus boy, that Chef Paterno is not in, where he's very vague about specifics
Nothing comes about from this with the exception the Owner telling the busboy that it would be taken care of as well as telling the Ex-Sous Chef to not bring children into the restaurant anymore just so it's impossible anyone could ever accuse him of such allegations ever again
If Chef hears from the bus boy that it is taken care of AND hears from the owner it has been taken care of and neither the owner or the busboy say anything when they see the ex-sous chef in the restaurant afterward. Should he believe that the issue was resolved?

Is this plausible?

Some changes to make this story better align with the PSU story

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

Honestly i've been staying as far away from this story as possible, but just took the time to read some of the police report (as much as I could stomach) and some of the thread and just have a few comments.

First please bear with my endless devil's advocacy......but have any of you ever worked at a state or federal institution like a university? There are usually very specific procedures when it comes to reporting violations or crimes - especially those of a sexual nature...usually sexual harassment or similar situations. They are usually very careful and deliberate about these things. The employees tend to have very specific guidelines about what to do, who to report to, etc. I am gonna guess that upon hearing this news, Paterno consulted with his lawyer, who told him exactly who to tell, and he went to those guys. You don't just go straight to the police, the universities usually have their own clear, written procedures, so unless you know what those were its impossible to say what Paterno should or shouldn't have done in that situation.

I do believe that everyone was thinking way too much about the football team and its reputation while keeping this shit quiet, but on the other hand I bet most people involved had no idea what was really going on and certainly didn't understand the extent. They are Penn State through and through but they are also human beings and child r*pe sickens every human being I've ever met......maybe some rare sickos could put it aside for the sake of the program but that is a low number. I really would bet the truth was kept from Paterno, his reputation as a decent guy is long-established and he really wouldn't have let this happen if he knew even a small shred of the truth. IMO.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

Oh....and what blew me away when reading that was that Sandusky was married? I know these freaks can be deceptive but man was his wife oblivious or what?

 

[NinerSickness]

There are usually very specific procedures when it comes to reporting violations or crimes - especially those of a sexual nature...usually sexual harassment or similar situations.

No there aren't. What you're saying would be illegal. There are laws that protect people who report crimes against any retribution for doing so. Anyone is free to report anything they want to the police.

They are usually very careful and deliberate about these things. The employees tend to have very specific guidelines about what to do, who to report to, etc.

There may be ADDITIONAL reporting procedures through which an employee must go, but there is NOTHING precluding someone to go to the police.

I am gonna guess that upon hearing this news, Paterno consulted with his lawyer, who told him exactly who to tell, and he went to those guys.

Screw his lawyer! He knew about this for 9 years and nothing was done.

---but on the other hand I bet most people involved had no idea what was really going on

Why?

I really would bet the truth was kept from Paterno, his reputation as a decent guy is long-established and he really wouldn't have let this happen if he knew even a small shred of the truth. IMO.

Except that it wasn't. Joe knew, his superiors knew, that scum bag Schultz knew, and the President knew. McQueary knew, his dad knew... ALL these cowards knew for 9 damn years!

 

[sayheykid1]

Truth is I don't really know. What I remember from being fed by the media was that the Bishops were aware of their behavior and continued to shuffle them into different churches.

If you would allow me to give you another analogy,

Say Joe Pa was the Head Chef of a very prestigious restaurant.
His bus boy comes into tell him that his sous chef (who he's been working with for 30 years) has been seen in the shower inappropriately horsing around with a child around the age of ten.
In disbelief Chef Paterno doesn't immediately call the police, but instead tells the owner of the restaurant, who also happens to have a prominent role in the police force
The owner has a meeting with the bus boy, where he's very vague about specifics
Nothing comes about from this with the exception of Chef Paterno telling his Sous Chef to not bring children into the restaurant anymore just so it's impossible anyone could ever accuse him of such allegations ever again

Is this plausible?

It is a terrible analogy full of assumptions.
9-1-1, that is all Paterno needed to do.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

Not saying you can't go to the police, I'm saying there are guidelines. He could have gone to the police....but not necessarily "should". Maybe after a bit of time and he sees that this was swept under the rug or ignored he has to take different action, then you go up the chain or the authorities. But the university is likely supposed to have officials who are responsible for taking care of these situations, it is sensitive business because of the potential for lawsuits.

 

[sayheykid1]

Some changes to make this story better align with the PSU story

Who told Paterno the issue was resolved and how did Paterno think it had been resolved?

 

[sayheykid1]

Some changes to make this story better align with the PSU story

Not saying you can't go to the police, I'm saying there are guidelines. He could have gone to the police....but not necessarily "should". Maybe after a bit of time and he sees that this was swept under the rug or ignored he has to take different action, then you go up the chain or the authorities. But the university is likely supposed to have officials who are responsible for taking care of these situations, it is sensitive business because of the potential for lawsuits.

There is no guideline for him going to the police and he definitely SHOULD have immediately. He should have gone straight to the authorities. The police is who is supposed to take care of people that r*pe children, not the university.

It isn't that complicated.

 

[NinerSickness]

Not saying you can't go to the police, I'm saying there are guidelines. He could have gone to the police....but not necessarily "should".

SHOULD!!!??? ARE YOU FRIGGN' KIDDING ME???!!!

Maybe after a bit of time and he sees that this was swept under the rug or ignored he has to take different action, then you go up the chain or the authorities.

Yeah, like the NEXT DAY when he's confused that tha press isn't houding him for a statement yet.

But the university is likely supposed to have officials who are responsible for taking care of these situations, it is sensitive business because of the potential for lawsuits.

And those same officials are even more guilty than paterno. The VP & President and who knows how many others knew and did nothing. THAT is what puts them in danger of a law suit, not the other way around.