Ongoing NHL Thread

[Cobiemonster]

I don't know, I'll take Kris Russell over the next two years at 2.6 million per versus Andrew Macdonald at 5 million per season over the next 6 years. Granted, salaries will keep rising and the last couple of years will probably look decent, but I think a bridge contract of 2-3 years would have served the Flyers better.

I can understand the theory of giving him 2 or 3 years instead of 5, but players want long term most of the time so you try to do what you can to make both sides happy

 

[pixburgher66]

NHL Player On-Ice Stats | Extra Skater

Looking at advanced stats screams overpaid for MacDonald. If their goal is for him to be Timmonen's replacement minutes wise...well...big red flag.

 

[Cobiemonster]

You think he's better than McDonagh who got a cheaper deal than him?

No but I think McDonagh is younger too so he will eventually end up with more money anyways when it's all set and done

 

[Johnnydollaz89]

No but I think McDonagh is younger too so he will eventually end up with more money anyways when it's all set and done

He is younger, but he's lock down on a great contract for the next 6 years.

NHL Player On-Ice Stats | Extra Skater

Looking at advanced stats screams overpaid for MacDonald. If their goal is for him to be Timmonen's replacement minutes wise...well...big red flag.

Just cause he can log big minutes, doesn't mean he's any great. He was good on a shitty Islanders team who had no defense whatsoever this season. AMac is a good bottom-pairing, possible top-4 Dman. Same way Matt Carle was overpaid, so is AMac.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

I don't know, I'll take Kris Russell over the next two years at 2.6 million per versus Andrew Macdonald at 5 million per season over the next 6 years. Granted, salaries will keep rising and the last couple of years will probably look decent, but I think a bridge contract of 2-3 years would have served the Flyers better.

I agree with this but I've always been a fan of Russell's. I like defensemen who can skate and move the puck. Every good team needs at least two, IMO.

But at the end of the day, if they want to re-sign the player, they can - if they don't then don't do it

If you think a player will need to go to arbitration, trade him and get assets back and go after someone else

Teams have been giving out stupid contracts for years because they feel pressured to sign guys when they're not - the grass isn't always greener elsewhere and it's not the end of the world if they don't sign the guy, I'd rather trade/let the guy go than to overpay him and then start bitching 3 or 4 years down the road(like David Clarkson, the Leafs screwed up badly on that, bet they're wishing they didn't do that, he's not that important of a player)

And if you're judging Andrew MacDonald in particular, based on his time on Long Island, I don't think that's completely fair - that team has been a dumpster fire for most of his time there, the Flyers are a more structured team that has better players around him, so naturally he's going to be a better player and a better fit there

To me, there are a lot more contracts in this league that are worse than his - and they're getting him in his prime years so it's worth it - if anything, the Mark Streit deal might be worse because he's older, and I really like what Mark Streit has brought to the table too

It certainly doesn't look like the WORST contract in the league right now. Would it even be top 3 worst on the Leafs?

That doesn't make it good though. Maybe he fits in perfectly with the Flyers and it turns into a good deal for both parties. I have my doubts whether MacDonald can anchor one of the top 2 pairings on a contender. This type of contract dictates that he probably should be able to do just that.

We'll see.

 

[Cobiemonster]

NHL Player On-Ice Stats | Extra Skater

Looking at advanced stats screams overpaid for MacDonald. If their goal is for him to be Timmonen's replacement minutes wise...well...big red flag.

Not to say you only look at advanced stats, but on twitter, I hear so many people complaining that A-Mac is bad when it comes to advanced stats and it annoys the shit out of me - people should be watching the games instead of looking at just stats

Andrew MacDonald is a much better player when you watch him on the ice than when you look at his advanced stats - you have to consider the situations he plays in, the minutes he plays and all of those things because he has filled all of those stats very well

Also, think about this, when Kimmo is gone, Mark Streit is going to take over in Kimmo's role so it's not as if A-Mac is going to be Kimmo's replacement, just because the money from Kimmo will go to A-Mac, doesn't make him that replacement - and when you consider the prospects the Flyers have like Ghost, Sam Morin and Robert Hagg, A-Mac is not going to be counted on to be the guy, he's just there to be steady and you need steady guys there - he's a good fit for that team and what they're trying to do

 

[KennyBanyeah]

NHL Player On-Ice Stats | Extra Skater

Looking at advanced stats screams overpaid for MacDonald. If their goal is for him to be Timmonen's replacement minutes wise...well...big red flag.

 

[Cobiemonster]

I agree with this but I've always been a fan of Russell's. I like defensemen who can skate and move the puck. Every good team needs at least two, IMO.



It certainly doesn't look like the WORST contract in the league right now. Would it even be top 3 worst on the Leafs?

That doesn't make it good though. Maybe he fits in perfectly with the Flyers and it turns into a good deal for both parties. I have my doubts whether MacDonald can anchor one of the top 2 pairings on a contender. This type of contract dictates that he probably should be able to do just that.

We'll see.

I'm not here to say it's a good contract, that's a very subjective thing and it's obvious when people have differing opinions, but for people to say he's overpaid and that he's not deserving of it I think is a little bit too far - teams have different feelings about players and as long as those players help their teams win, I don't think the contracts mean a whole lot to them - if teams really want a player they'll do what they have to do to get him, every team goes through that with players at some point so it's not just a plague that one specific team goes through

 

[forty_three]

I have my doubts whether MacDonald can anchor one of the top 2 pairings on a contender. This type of contract dictates that he probably should be able to do just that.

We'll see.

I'm all for a player getting everything they can, but it is such a double edged sword. Especially when you play in certain markets. Now the Flyers fans are going to expect him to be the second coming of Chris Pronger, when he's not even the next Sean Pronger. He's going to log big minutes, be exposed and be the scapegoat. And then Homer will be painted into a corner and won't be able to move him because no one else will want to take on that deal.

That's really where Homer blew it in my mind. Never mind where it sets the bar for mediocre D men and what that means for true defensive studs. Homer just gave himself and AMac both golden handcuffs.

 

[pixburgher66]

Not to say you only look at advanced stats, but on twitter, I hear so many people complaining that A-Mac is bad when it comes to advanced stats and it annoys the shit out of me - people should be watching the games instead of looking at just stats

Andrew MacDonald is a much better player when you watch him on the ice than when you look at his advanced stats - you have to consider the situations he plays in, the minutes he plays and all of those things because he has filled all of those stats very well

Also, think about this, when Kimmo is gone, Mark Streit is going to take over in Kimmo's role so it's not as if A-Mac is going to be Kimmo's replacement, just because the money from Kimmo will go to A-Mac, doesn't make him that replacement - and when you consider the prospects the Flyers have like Ghost, Sam Morin and Robert Hagg, A-Mac is not going to be counted on to be the guy, he's just there to be steady and you need steady guys there - he's a good fit for that team and what they're trying to do

I'm a Pens fan, I know what it means to hate advanced stats being shoved down your throat. What I DO think you can garner from those though, is that he's best suited as a 5/6 guy, and he's now getting paid like a 1/2 guy. The market is shifting, guys are wanting more money and longer term, and that's going to shift how a lower pairing guy is paid. All that considered, I still think they'd be in trouble if they expect good results by throwing him into a top pairing situation.

 

[Johnnydollaz89]

Why is Mark Striet being talked about as if he's Alex Pietrangelo? Yeah he can move the puck on the PP, he's on a 35+ contract, can't be bought out and he's slow as shit. He was exposed last year by the Pens in the playoffs and I can only imagine the Rangers exploiting his slowness as well.

 

[Cobiemonster]

Why is Mark Striet being talked about as if he's Alex Pietrangelo? Yeah he can move the puck on the PP, he's on a 35+ contract, can't be bought out and he's slow as shit. He was exposed last year by the Pens in the playoffs and I can only imagine the Rangers exploiting his slowness as well.

Except Mark Streit exposed Fleury and the Penguins with an OT goal on Saturday - he's not a bad player, he's been way better for the Flyers as of late

And if the Flyers get pucks past the Rangers d-men and get physical with them, the Rangers d-men won't look that great either

And why did you bring up Alex Pietrangelo specifically? Nobody said he was as good as him

 

[Johnnydollaz89]

Except Mark Streit exposed Fleury and the Penguins with an OT goal on Saturday - he's not a bad player, he's been way better for the Flyers as of late

And if the Flyers get pucks past the Rangers d-men and get physical with them, the Rangers d-men won't look that great either

And why did you bring up Alex Pietrangelo specifically? Nobody said he was as good as him

You're hyping up Striet about how great he is on the PP, i'm comparing him to somebody that is very good on the PP as well. 1 goal and we can hype him up? If that's the case, Raphael Diaz should be the man for the way he moves the puck on the PP. Striet is a shadow of his former self. He's slow, he certainly will not be able to log bigger minutes when Timmonen is gone, that's for sure.

I'm not too worried about you guys getting physical with our defensemen, Staal, Klein and Mac are strong as it is. The only player I would be worried about, is Simmonds, nobody else, physically scares me. And Giroux being on the ice when Mac is, will be the key to this series.

 

[Cobiemonster]

I'm a Pens fan, I know what it means to hate advanced stats being shoved down your throat. What I DO think you can garner from those though, is that he's best suited as a 5/6 guy, and he's now getting paid like a 1/2 guy. The market is shifting, guys are wanting more money and longer term, and that's going to shift how a lower pairing guy is paid. All that considered, I still think they'd be in trouble if they expect good results by throwing him into a top pairing situation.

Andrew MacDonald hasn't really played top pairing, they've been dispersing the minutes and it all depends on the situations he plays in - he doesn't play much PP time so he gets more even strength time - Kimmo and Mark Streit get a lot of the PP time so A-Mac has played more on even strength and penalty kill

I don't think he's a 5 or a 6, I really don't, if you compare him to guys like Luke Schenn, who to me is a 5 or a 6, A-Mac looks way better than him

I don't have lofty expectations for him, and I don't need to, he's just there to be solid and steady and I like that about him, I'm not making him to be the next big thing, he doesn't have to be on this team - what's wrong about a player who's solid and steady like he is? I don't see any glaring flaws with him, he just comes to play, does his job solidly and that's all you can ask for - him, Kimmo, Mark Streit and Braydon Coburn are all solid and they can log minutes, A-Mac doesn't have to be the leader on this defense, he's just one of the guys and he fits in well

 

[Cobiemonster]

You're hyping up Striet about how great he is on the PP, i'm comparing him to somebody that is very good on the PP as well. 1 goal and we can hype him up? If that's the case, Raphael Diaz should be the man for the way he moves the puck on the PP. Striet is a shadow of his former self. He's slow, he certainly will not be able to log bigger minutes when Timmonen is gone, that's for sure.

I'm not too worried about you guys getting physical with our defensemen, Staal, Klein and Mac are strong as it is. The only player I would be worried about, is Simmonds, nobody else, physically scares me. And Giroux being on the ice when Mac is, will be the key to this series.

See, you don't watch every Flyers game, and I wouldn't expect that because you're busy watching the Rangers, but boy, with Mark Streit on the PP, the Flyers have really played well - and there's a reason why Mark Streit gets more minutes & more $ than Diaz - why do you think Montreal and Vancouver just let him go for not very much?

Mark Streit has 10 goals and 44 points in the regular season, that's just as much as McDonagh, and I'm not saying he's better than McDonagh, so quit trashing him - the Isles have been 100x worse without Mark Streit, their defense was so discombobulated without him this season - it seems like you are trashing Mark Streit more than I am hyping him up

You guys need to quit acting like I'm calling A-Mac and Mark Streit great defensemen - I never said that about either one of them, but some of you trash these guys like they're not good and it amazes me - these guys aren't dominant but they're solid and steady and they've made the Flyers good and I would know because I watch them every night, if I didn't think they were good I would be calling them out on it

 

[dash]

Well if nothing else, it makes the Dennis Wideman contract look a little better...

 

[Cobiemonster]

Also, I might add, think about Matt Carle in Tampa - he got a lot of money in FA, and he's a similar player to Andrew MacDonald - the Flyers basically got their replacement when they traded for A-Mac

Both guys are solid players who can log minutes - Matt Carle is a key part of Tampa's defense in the playoffs - similar guys

 

[pixburgher66]

Andrew MacDonald hasn't really played top pairing, they've been dispersing the minutes and it all depends on the situations he plays in - he doesn't play much PP time so he gets more even strength time - Kimmo and Mark Streit get a lot of the PP time so A-Mac has played more on even strength and penalty kill

I don't think he's a 5 or a 6, I really don't, if you compare him to guys like Luke Schenn, who to me is a 5 or a 6, A-Mac looks way better than him

I don't have lofty expectations for him, and I don't need to, he's just there to be solid and steady and I like that about him, I'm not making him to be the next big thing, he doesn't have to be on this team - what's wrong about a player who's solid and steady like he is? I don't see any glaring flaws with him, he just comes to play, does his job solidly and that's all you can ask for - him, Kimmo, Mark Streit and Braydon Coburn are all solid and they can log minutes, A-Mac doesn't have to be the leader on this defense, he's just one of the guys and he fits in well

He's a step above Schenn, but I just don't see him being a great option in the top 4. I could be very, very wrong...but the fact being he's being paid top pair money now, so he has to play like that or the contract doesn't look great.

 

[Cobiemonster]

He's a step above Schenn, but I just don't see him being a great option in the top 4. I could be very, very wrong...but the fact being he's being paid top pair money now, so he has to play like that or the contract doesn't look great.

These days, a top pairing contract is someone who's worth at least 6-8 million, a second pairing guy is in the 3.5-5 range - just my opinion, so I feel like for someone who's a 3-4 d-man, that's not a bad range

 

[Cobiemonster]

And this this one: