Ongoing NHL thread - Part deux

[mattola]

what are you laughing about? That worked out just amazing for...... Hartford

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I think the word "tanking" is the problem. The team was shit. What were they supposed to do, trade every draft pick they own for the next four years and acquire a team that could compete for tenth place? They're spending to the floor as they are required to do, and playing as they were expected to. If that is considered "tanking", it's still a much better process than "being idiots". I watch a team that took the latter route 3 times a week, and I would have much rather they'd gone the opposite direction.

 

[dash]

I think the word "tanking" is the problem. The team was shit. What were they supposed to do, trade every draft pick they own for the next four years and acquire a team that could compete for tenth place? They're spending to the floor as they are required to do, and playing as they were expected to. If that is considered "tanking", it's still a much better process than "being idiots". I watch a team that took the latter route 3 times a week, and I would have much rather they'd gone the opposite direction.

Regarding the bolded part, I definitely agree as the word has ugly connotations. I don't think any players on either the Flames or Hurricanes are deliberately trying to lose, these guys are trying their best most every night in order to stay in the top hockey league in the world. Even if they don't stay with their current team, they know that eyes are always on them and they want to impress scouts/GM's etc. for a future engagement.

Instead of focusing on "tanking", how about fixing the draft lottery system to eliminate even the notion of "tanking" all together? There's a hard salary cap now thus for all intents and purposes the playing field has been levelled. Take the 14 non-playoff teams and conduct a draw to determine spots 1-14 for draft entry position. Simple.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

what about the Sens for Daigle?

indeed. That team was so bad would anyone have been even tell if they were tanking or if they were playing to save their life?

They were putrid.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

I think the word "tanking" is the problem. The team was shit. What were they supposed to do, trade every draft pick they own for the next four years and acquire a team that could compete for tenth place? They're spending to the floor as they are required to do, and playing as they were expected to. If that is considered "tanking", it's still a much better process than "being idiots". I watch a team that took the latter route 3 times a week, and I would have much rather they'd gone the opposite direction.

Exactly. They also brought in some competent veterans (partly to get to the floor I know but still) and don't really look like they're dogging it out there.

If DB&I wants to talk about tanking how about trading Vanek for basically nothing once they were out of playoff contention?

 

[dash]

If DB&I wants to talk about tanking how about trading Vanek for basically nothing once they were out of playoff contention?

That's really where "tanking" comes into play. Making lopsided trades or retaining coaches when it's clear the coach has lost the dressing room are two examples of doing things (or not doing things) that hurt your team's chances of winning hockey games.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

my definition of tanking includes employing a mid 30's Nabokov as your #1 goalie

 

[DragonfromTO]

True, but there is a far larger correlation between goalie stats and wins than pitching stats and wins. Besides lockout/strike years, only one Vezina winner has won fewer than 30 games in a season since the criteria was revamped in 81 (Tom Barrasso).

But don't you think that's at least partially because the Vezina voting (like the Cy Young voting) is influenced by win totals in the first place? A player wins the Vezina partly because he has a good record, but then his Vezina win is supposed to be treated as independent evidence of his performance? It's circular logic.

 

[Cobiemonster]

But don't you think that's at least partially because the Vezina voting (like the Cy Young voting) is influenced by win totals in the first place? A player wins the Vezina partly because he has a good record, but then his Vezina win is supposed to be treated as independent evidence of his performance? It's circular logic.

Well it depends on number of wins - a goalie might only have 25 wins because he was hurt for a period of time - kind of like a pitcher who might only have 12 wins because he missed 10 starts due to injury

Is a goalie with 38 wins and a 2.60 GAA going to win a vezina? That's like a pitcher winning 18 games and having a 4 ERA

In the NHL, usually goalies who win the Vezina have a high win number and a low GAA - you won't see goalies win a lot of games and have a real high GAA anymore, mostly because they play 60 games and the more goals you're giving up every game, the lesser chance you have of winning games - in baseball, a pitcher makes 30 starts so they can give up more runs per game and it might not affect them as much because it's a smaller sample size

 

[mattola]

my definition of tanking includes employing a mid 30's Nabokov as your #1 goalie

you shut your whore mouth. Hes the greatest goalie ever you know

 

[DragonfromTO]

Well it depends on number of wins - a goalie might only have 25 wins because he was hurt for a period of time - kind of like a pitcher who might only have 12 wins because he missed 10 starts due to injury

Is a goalie with 38 wins and a 2.60 GAA going to win a vezina? That's like a pitcher winning 18 games and having a 4 ERA

In the NHL, usually goalies who win the Vezina have a high win number and a low GAA - you won't see goalies win a lot of games and have a real high GAA anymore, mostly because they play 60 games and the more goals you're giving up every game, the lesser chance you have of winning games - in baseball, a pitcher makes 30 starts so they can give up more runs per game and it might not affect them as much because it's a smaller sample size

I don't look at GAA to judge a goalie anyway. Every baseball inning is 3 outs, every game is 27 outs. Every hockey game does not have the same number of shots faced or saves made.

 

[forty_three]

you shut your whore mouth. Hes the greatest goalie ever you know

Russian. Wore #20. It checks out.

 

[DragonfromTO]

Well it depends on number of wins - a goalie might only have 25 wins because he was hurt for a period of time - kind of like a pitcher who might only have 12 wins because he missed 10 starts due to injury

Is a goalie with 38 wins and a 2.60 GAA going to win a vezina? That's like a pitcher winning 18 games and having a 4 ERA

In the NHL, usually goalies who win the Vezina have a high win number and a low GAA - you won't see goalies win a lot of games and have a real high GAA anymore, mostly because they play 60 games and the more goals you're giving up every game, the lesser chance you have of winning games - in baseball, a pitcher makes 30 starts so they can give up more runs per game and it might not affect them as much because it's a smaller sample size

Like I said before, I don't really care about GAA. It's a useful stat for judging a team's defensive play, not its goaltender.

But since we were talking about Marty before I'll use him for an example... he won back to back Vezinas in seasons where he finished outside of the top 10 in SV% but still won 41 and 38 games.

 

[tducey]

Yeah, don't think the Sabres are tanking, the team's just not that talented.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

what are you laughing about? That worked out just amazing for...... Hartford

Brass bonanza time

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

But don't you think that's at least partially because the Vezina voting (like the Cy Young voting) is influenced by win totals in the first place? A player wins the Vezina partly because he has a good record, but then his Vezina win is supposed to be treated as independent evidence of his performance? It's circular logic.

Not condoning anything, just pointing out the status quo. I'm still irate that PK Subban is a Norris winner.

 

[mattola]

received for my birthday

Lol so there was a 2 second delay on tv for the fist goal, scared the crap out of me then we scored lol

1-0 Canucks

 

[mattola]

To avoid a too many men penalty Kassian jumped into the blue bench lol it worked

 

[Cobiemonster]

To avoid a too many men penalty Kassian jumped into the blue bench lol it worked

lol I remember when Luke Schenn jumped between the benches with Pierre once to avoid a too many men penalty

 

[forty_three]

To avoid a too many men penalty Kassian jumped into the blue bench lol it worked

In the 15 minutes I've been watching the Nucks have been caught twice for too many men after that adventure above.

That's pretty odd for an NHL team.


I don't think my PeeWee team last year had three Too Many Men penalties all season.