Ongoing NHL thread - Part deux

[forty_three]

[youtube]L_vJe-_JbQc[/youtube]

In case anyone needs a cry.

I saw that the other night in the Hotel and meant to find it on teh YouTubes to share here. Very good thing he is doing.

 

[Cobiemonster]

 

[dash]

Damn, that sucks for Horton.

 

[forty_three]

Dammit. I have been hearing it isn't good, but I have been hoping a year off is enough to do it.

Get well, Nathan.

And this explains why the Jackets have been racking up the frequent flyer miles with their scouts. They have been all over the West.

 

[pixburgher66]

Surgery sucks. Back surgery? The success rate is pretty poor. And what sucks for him: it's degenerative. Doesn't get better like a muscle strain would. Just really tough break.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

A lot of these same things were said about Lupul back when he missed a year+ because of back surgery. He came back and (eventually) was better than he ever was before. Hope for Horton's sake he gets the same luck.

 

[forty_three]

A lot of these same things were said about Lupul back when he missed a year+ because of back surgery. He came back and (eventually) was better than he ever was before. Hope for Horton's sake he gets the same luck.

By all accounts, he's a really great guy and is really upset about this. I hope he takes his time and works smart. Getting back is not worth being in a wheelchair in 15 years. If he can pull a Lupul and come back, that would be great. If not, he'll have a spot behind the bench or somewhere else in the organization. They love him here.

Jackets really have to hope someone is really up close to the cap and has to dump someone or another team REALLY wants to ensure a top spot in the McDavid Sweeps.

Matt Moulson would look good here

 

[pixburgher66]

Top 10 goalies is on NBCSN, 43. But Hasek has been mentioned, so...maybe this list isn't for you

 

[pixburgher66]

10. Grant Fuhr, 9. Bernie Parent, 8. Eddie Belfour, 7. Ken Dryden, 6. Glen Hall , 5. Marty Brodeur, 4. Terry Sawchuk, 3. Patrick Roy, 2. Jacques Plante, 1. Dominic Hasek


Interesting. I won't even pretend that I'm educated enough to make such a list, but I'm embarrassed as a pretty big hockey history buff to have no idea who Glen Hall is/was. Also: Belfour that high? It strikes me as high, but...again, can't say I know enough about the goalies to make such a list.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

10. Grant Fuhr, 9. Bernie Parent, 8. Eddie Belfour, 7. Ken Dryden, 6. Glen Hall , 5. Marty Brodeur, 4. Terry Sawchuk, 3. Patrick Roy, 2. Jacques Plante, 1. Dominic Hasek


Interesting. I won't even pretend that I'm educated enough to make such a list, but I'm embarrassed as a pretty big hockey history buff to have no idea who Glen Hall is/was. Also: Belfour that high? It strikes me as high, but...again, can't say I know enough about the goalies to make such a list.

Fuhr probably shouldn't be on the list, IMO. Maybe Tony Esposito instead. I'd also have Parent easily ahead of Belfour. The top 5 (not necessarily in that order) is how I'd see it but of course I haven't much of a clue in regards to the really old guys (before mine and my father's time).

 

[dash]

Top 10 goalies is on NBCSN, 43. But Hasek has been mentioned, so...maybe this list isn't for you

Top 10 NHL goalies or top 10 goalies? 43 will be apoplectic that Tretiak is not on the list.

 

[pixburgher66]

Fuhr probably shouldn't be on the list, IMO. Maybe Tony Esposito instead. I'd also have Parent easily ahead of Belfour. The top 5 (not necessarily in that order) is how I'd see it but of course I haven't much of a clue in regards to the really old guys (before mine and my father's time).

Esposito was an honorable mention. And yeah, I was thinking Fuhr was out of place, more of a guy that rode the wave of being on the most talented teams ever assembled in a time where lots of goals were commonplace. Tretiak was mentioned as "likely the best ever", but I think they were focusing on NHL.

 

[forty_three]

Top 10 NHL goalies or top 10 goalies? 43 will be apoplectic that Tretiak is not on the list.

It's NBC. There is no hockey outside the NHL, I am impressed they mentioned any goalie who played pre-expansion.

10. Grant Fuhr, 9. Bernie Parent, 8. Eddie Belfour, 7. Ken Dryden, 6. Glen Hall , 5. Marty Brodeur, 4. Terry Sawchuk, 3. Patrick Roy, 2. Jacques Plante, 1. Dominic Hasek


Interesting. I won't even pretend that I'm educated enough to make such a list, but I'm embarrassed as a pretty big hockey history buff to have no idea who Glen Hall is/was. Also: Belfour that high? It strikes me as high, but...again, can't say I know enough about the goalies to make such a list.

How in the everloving fuck is the goalie who bested the "unbeatable" shutout record by more than TWENTY at number 5? And has more than 100+ wins more than second place?

Hasek was a successful goalie. He was not the best one. He had a number of solid teams in front of him, but it wasn't until he wound up in Detroit did he reach the top. How many cups are behind him on the list? And he has one?

Here's how I'd do it:
1: Tretiak, every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
2: Marty
3: Sawchuk
4: Roy
5: Plante
6: Hall
7: Dryden
8: Billy Smith
9: Hasek (Just for the sheer fact there was never anyone like him and never will be again - Thank God)
10: Parent

Very close: Cheever, The Gumper, Espo, Pelle Lindbergh, Cujo, Ozzie, Vernon, Richter, Moog, Fuhr

246, somewhere after Tommy Soderstrom, Roman Cecmanek and Ken Wreggett: Moneybags Belfour


And pix, if you like hockey history, read up on Hall. He was a groundbreaker.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Fuhr probably shouldn't be on the list, IMO. Maybe Tony Esposito instead. I'd also have Parent easily ahead of Belfour. The top 5 (not necessarily in that order) is how I'd see it but of course I haven't much of a clue in regards to the really old guys (before mine and my father's time).

I liked Eddie as much as the next guy, but top ten? Nah.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

10. Grant Fuhr, 9. Bernie Parent, 8. Eddie Belfour, 7. Ken Dryden, 6. Glen Hall , 5. Marty Brodeur, 4. Terry Sawchuk, 3. Patrick Roy, 2. Jacques Plante, 1. Dominic Hasek


Interesting. I won't even pretend that I'm educated enough to make such a list, but I'm embarrassed as a pretty big hockey history buff to have no idea who Glen Hall is/was. Also: Belfour that high? It strikes me as high, but...again, can't say I know enough about the goalies to make such a list.

Where the hell is Turk? Guy has the best playoff GAA amongst goalies who played more than 50 games.

 

[forty_three]

Yes, that is Tommy Wingels putting Chara on his ass.

 

[forty_three]

[YOUTUBE]fDfGQ5-rSis[/YOUTUBE]

Had never seen the Steve Sullivan one. That is AWESOME

 

[dash]

Had never seen the Steve Sullivan one. That is AWESOME

Avalanche fan - Whoudda thunk it?

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

It's NBC. There is no hockey outside the NHL, I am impressed they mentioned any goalie who played pre-expansion.



How in the everloving fuck is the goalie who bested the "unbeatable" shutout record by more than TWENTY at number 5? And has more than 100+ wins more than second place?

Hasek was a successful goalie. He was not the best one. He had a number of solid teams in front of him, but it wasn't until he wound up in Detroit did he reach the top. How many cups are behind him on the list? And he has one?

I think Brodeur's longevity is why he gets overlooked. He played so consistently for so many years, but it wasn't until later in his career that he started winning Vezinas. I think the fact that he played for the poster child of the trapping dead puck era league hurts his standing as well. Right or wrong, I think that's what's happening.

Hasek on the other hand had perhaps the most dominant stretch by a goalie in history. Six Vezinas plus two Harts in an eight year span is a feat that no goalie will likely ever come close to again. However, I don't think that should be enough to consider him the best ever because he couldn't maintain that level for a significant length of time. Sure he played until he was 63 (mental note, verify that before submitting post), but he missed a lot of time in there with his "retirements" and had injury issues and general flakiness throughout his career too.

 

[forty_three]

I think Brodeur's longevity is why he gets overlooked. He played so consistently for so many years, but it wasn't until later in his career that he started winning Vezinas. I think the fact that he played for the poster child of the trapping dead puck era league hurts his standing as well. Right or wrong, I think that's what's happening.

Hasek on the other hand had perhaps the most dominant stretch by a goalie in history. Six Vezinas plus two Harts in an eight year span is a feat that no goalie will likely ever come close to again. However, I don't think that should be enough to consider him the best ever because he couldn't maintain that level for a significant length of time. Sure he played until he was 63 (mental note, verify that before submitting post), but he missed a lot of time in there with his "retirements" and had injury issues and general flakiness throughout his career too.

I get the arguments on Brodeur, but it's just like Sawchuk. He played his entire career on one of the six best teams in the league. And he still had to show up and make the saves. The trap is completely useless if your goalie doesn't understand and put himself in position to make the save when the shot comes. Plus Brodeur is one of the only players ever to have a rule instituted to specifically nullify part of his game, and a part he did better than anyone ever had. The Wild trapped too. They haven't won cups yet.

Tretiak never faced a ton of quality shots because his team played keep away a lot. But he put himself in exactly the right spot based on what his team in front of him was doing. I put them as 1 and 2 because they were both more than a backstop. They were integral cogs in their teams.

The knock for me on Hasek is how many teams he quit on. In a group of people known for flakiness, he was the flakiest. If he had any kind of heart at all, he could have owned the league and every single record ever. If he battled half as hard as Cujo or Billy Smith, the Sabres could have won four consecutive cups during the time he was winning Vezinas and Harts.