On point analysis or still lingering butthurt....

[trojanfan12]

It doesn't. I just have my own reasoning that most probably wouldn't understand and/or recollect as fans become further removed from the situation.

Okay, so you being emotionally hurt because of that incident means it was rigged? I guess I'm not sure how we get from what you went through as a fan to Stern rigging games to keep the Pacers out of the finals.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

Okay, so you being emotionally hurt because of that incident means it was rigged? I guess I'm not sure how we get from what you went through as a fan to Stern rigging games to keep the Pacers out of the finals.

If that's how you're creating your own closure to this, then congratulations. But no one, and I mean no one, was as dialed in ESPN to analysis and interviews regarding the situation during the weekend of Nov. 19-21, 2004 (I remember the exact date without looking it up, lol). I simply have my own reasoning most people either wouldn't understand or simply don't remember.

 

[trojanfan12]

If that's how you're creating your own closure to this, then congratulations. But no one, and I mean no one, was as dialed in ESPN to analysis and interviews regarding the situation during the weekend of Nov. 19-21, 2004 (I remember the exact date without looking it up, lol). I simply have my own reasoning most people either wouldn't understand or simply don't remember.

Dude, you're the one dragged "what you went through as a die-hard fan" into this and tried to use it to back up a point you were trying to make that Stern rigged the game to keep the Pacers out of the finals. I'm just trying to understand the logic.

Also, who cares that you can remember the date without looking it up? A lot of people can do that. It was a pretty big deal at the time as nothing like that had happened before.

Also, not sure what being more dialed in to ESPN analysis has to do with anything. But we'll leave that for you help me understand the rigged games thing.

 

[Heatles84]

What does what you "went through as a die hard fan" have to do with whether or not Stern tried to rig the finals?

Seriously, how dialed-in do you need to be?

Player A goes into stands and assaults fans. Player A gets suspended for the season.

The logic is there, but ol' Todd gets his crusty decrepit panties in a bunch.

 

[HurricaneDij39]

Dude, you're the one dragged "what you went through as a die-hard fan" into this and tried to use it to back up a point you were trying to make that Stern rigged the game to keep the Pacers out of the finals. I'm just trying to understand the logic.

Also, who cares that you can remember the date without looking it up? A lot of people can do that. It was a pretty big deal at the time as nothing like that had happened before.

Also, not sure what being more dialed in to ESPN analysis has to do with anything. But we'll leave that for you help me understand the rigged games thing.

Unlike most, I know the little picadillos that took place in the aftermath, such as the Pistons' CEO getting caught smirking in a post-brawl interview with Jim Gray...Bottom line is that only a championship will ever bring me to full closure to this situation. The brawl as a Pacers fan was more disheartening to me than the Bartman play was to me as a Cubs fan, which is saying something. Both the Cubs and the Pacers are in solid positions to break their respective championship droughts in the coming five years, but there will still be some serious demons to be conquered for both...

 

[WiggyRuss]

Unlike most, I know the little picadillos that took place in the aftermath, such as the Pistons' CEO getting caught smirking in a post-brawl interview with Jim Gray...Bottom line is that only a championship will ever bring me to full closure to this situation. The brawl as a Pacers fan was more disheartening to me than the Bartman play was to me as a Cubs fan, which is saying something. Both the Cubs and the Pacers are in solid positions to break their respective championship droughts in the coming five years, but there will still be some serious demons to be conquered for both...

in Bill Simmons' Book of Basketball he jumps into the Malice at the Palace and writes a pretty good passage on how significant of an event it was in the course of NBA history and how legacies changed that night- and just how good that Pacers team was.

Id recommend the entire book if you get the time...the part about David Stern looking utterly speechless when told Kobe went for the "trinity" in his little Colorado incident is positively hilarious. Simmons' discussing Eric Snow while with the Cavs and saying if he had to pick one player in NBA history to miss a shot if his life was on the line- he'd pick Eric Snow...

lots of good stuff and stories....the best is probably the very first couple chapters when he goes into the "secret" to winning in the NBA with his nemesis Isiah Thomas at a topless pool in Las Vegas.

 

[trojanfan12]

But if you believe Shaq and that championship 5 years ago made Miami a real destination, how well has that worked for Dallas this past off-season doing the same exact thing?

To me, Dallas is a bit of an outlier. Almost "the exception that proves the rule" type of thing. I have been trying for years to figure out why the Mavs can't seem to ever land a top tier guy.

They seemingly have everything that players are looking for. They have a very player friendly owner who isn't afraid to pay the luxury tax for a contender, the play in a great city with a very good nightlife, they have a top level player who has always been willing to take a step back to accommodate another top level player and they pretty much always seem to have the talent to be contenders right away.

I just don't get it. I'd think top level FA's would be lining up to go there, but they just don't.

 

[WiggyRuss]

To me, Dallas is a bit of an outlier. Almost "the exception that proves the rule" type of thing. I have been trying for years to figure out why the Mavs can't seem to ever land a top tier guy.

They seemingly have everything that players are looking for. They have a very player friendly owner who isn't afraid to pay the luxury tax for a contender, the play in a great city with a very good nightlife, they have a top level player who has always been willing to take a step back to accommodate another top level player and they pretty much always seem to have the talent to be contenders right away.

I just don't get it. I'd think top level FA's would be lining up to go there, but they just don't.

the simple fact is that not many high level free agents move teams.

How many TRUE impact guys move from team to team in a given offseason? Maybe 1 or 2 every couple years?

The fact is- that you are correct above in saying that teams just cannot build a roster through free agency anymore and that players ability to win is highly prized when multiple teams are offering you similar money.

Relying on free agency to bail your team out is asking to be disappointed.

 

[trojanfan12]

the simple fact is that not many high level free agents move teams.

How many TRUE impact guys move from team to team in a given offseason? Maybe 1 or 2 every couple years?

The fact is- that you are correct above in saying that teams just cannot build a roster through free agency anymore and that players ability to win is highly prized when multiple teams are offering you similar money.

Relying on free agency to bail your team out is asking to be disappointed.

I agree, but you'd think that with all that Dallas has to offer, they'd have landed someone at some point. They just never do.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

I agree, but you'd think that with all that Dallas has to offer, they'd have landed someone at some point. They just never do.

Yes, but do you think that winning a championship 5 years ago has ANY impact on their FA chase today?

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Unlike most, I know the little picadillos that took place in the aftermath, such as the Pistons' CEO getting caught smirking in a post-brawl interview with Jim Gray...Bottom line is that only a championship will ever bring me to full closure to this situation. The brawl as a Pacers fan was more disheartening to me than the Bartman play was to me as a Cubs fan, which is saying something. Both the Cubs and the Pacers are in solid positions to break their respective championship droughts in the coming five years, but there will still be some serious demons to be conquered for both...

That is all true... I don't buy the conspiracy that the punishments were in any way meant to change the playoff picture though. I mean he charged up into the stands, beat up an innocent fan (and then more fans) and caused a guy to break his back in that mess.

 

[tlance]

Yes, but do you think that winning a championship 5 years ago has ANY impact on their FA chase today?

I do. It has obviously not yielded results, but that is more due to the aging state of the roster. They struck out a couple years in a row while Dirk was still elite. Now they are an afterthought.

Cuban has a rep for being an owner than guys like to play for. If they can assemble a solid core again in the future, they will be a better FA destination because of Cuban's championship experience.

 

[tlance]

It's even more laughable that people like yourself think that $tern ever gave two shits about "protecting the integrity of the game".

Look, I get it - The notion of "rigged games" is almost entirely farfetched and is used as a copout excuse 99.9% of the time that it's used. But, not too many were as dialed in on the situation as I backed was in 2004 and therefore still have no idea of what I went through as a die-hard fan. Therefore, I stand by my belief until the day I die and nothing anyone will say or do will change it.

People like me? By that do you mean realistic ones?

You are talking about Stern rigging the Finals because he suspended a player back in November. Please.

Bottom line, you didn't get what you wanted, so you were upset. We can leave it at that. I don't see any rationale basketball people saying that Artest's suspension was too long. I don't care if a Piston's owner was smiling in the post game interview. That is meaningless. Artest did something terrible and deserved a severe punishment. He got it.

 

[Heatles84]

People like me? By that do you mean realistic ones?

You are talking about Stern rigging the Finals because he suspended a player back in November. Please.

Bottom line, you didn't get what you wanted, so you were upset. We can leave it at that. I don't see any rationale basketball people saying that Artest's suspension was too long. I don't care if a Piston's owner was smiling in the post game interview. That is meaningless. Artest did something terrible and deserved a severe punishment. He got it.

That's amusing given that ol' Dij likes to call Heat and Lakers fans spoiled. Yet he's the one that has a temper tantrum when it relates to the Malice in the Palace. Oh the irony.

And yeah, the Pistons owner was probably smiling because he just saw a contender in the East shoot itself in the foot given Artest's actions.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yes, but do you think that winning a championship 5 years ago has ANY impact on their FA chase today?

Apparently, they could have won the last 5 championships in a row and it wouldn't help their FA chase today. That's why they are an outlier.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Apparently, they could have won the last 5 championships in a row and it wouldn't help their FA chase today. That's why they are an outlier.

But where has that ever been the case for a non-traditional free agent draw team (not LA/Bos type teams).

Where 5 years after a championship they are a middle of the road team and become a free agent mecca because of that?

 

[tlance]

But where has that ever been the case for a non-traditional free agent draw team (not LA/Bos type teams).

Where 5 years after a championship they are a middle of the road team and become a free agent mecca because of that?

I get what you are saying, but there were a lot of factors that all came together:

1) previous championship
2) warm weather
3) big market
4) Wade was an elite player at the time
5) Wade, Bosh and LeBron were friends
6) Pat Riley

All of these things played a roll and none of these details were insignificant. The title that Miami won where even Shaq admitted that the Heat were Wade's team had much to do with Wade's legacy and status among his peers. I do think it mattered, at least some.

 

[RobToxin]

Reading yet again this silly ass notion that the Malice in the Palace was rigged to keep the Pacers out of the Finals, here is my question:

Who is responsible for Artest going into the stand to begin with?

If the answer is anything other than David Stern, then the entire premise of your conspiracy theory fails. Without Artest going into the stands, there is no Malice at the Palace, there is no year-long suspension, there is no rigging the Finals to keep the Pacers out.

So, unless David Stern is the one who sent Artest into the stands, then there is no way you can ever make the argument that David Stern rigged the Malice at the Palace.

It's called Logical Thinking.

Learn to use it.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Reading yet again this silly ass notion that the Malice in the Palace was rigged to keep the Pacers out of the Finals, here is my question:

Who is responsible for Artest going into the stand to begin with?

If the answer is anything other than David Stern, then the entire premise of your conspiracy theory fails. Without Artest going into the stands, there is no Malice at the Palace, there is no year-long suspension, there is no rigging the Finals to keep the Pacers out.

So, unless David Stern is the one who sent Artest into the stands, then there is no way you can ever make the argument that David Stern rigged the Malice at the Palace.

It's called Logical Thinking.

Learn to use it.

The drugs his Mother obviously used while he was in utero, are the reason he went into the stands.

Seriously, the guy has mental health issues that go beyond environment.

#NatureVsNurture

 

[Heatles84]

Reading yet again this silly ass notion that the Malice in the Palace was rigged to keep the Pacers out of the Finals, here is my question:

Who is responsible for Artest going into the stand to begin with?

If the answer is anything other than David Stern, then the entire premise of your conspiracy theory fails. Without Artest going into the stands, there is no Malice at the Palace, there is no year-long suspension, there is no rigging the Finals to keep the Pacers out.

So, unless David Stern is the one who sent Artest into the stands, then there is no way you can ever make the argument that David Stern rigged the Malice at the Palace.

It's called Logical Thinking.

Learn to use it.

That and the fact that the Pacers have been to the Finals before (2000 if I'm not mistaken). Stern was the commish then as well.