OK so Baalke and Harbaugh wants Alex to Throw to our new and remaining targets?

[clyde_carbon]

[/B]

i'm often amazed at this line of thinking. why is it that eli is now 'the best qb in the league' [or at least in that conversation] when he needed TWO kyle williams fumbles inside the 30 to win that game. why is it no one says 'eli had plenty of chances to put the game away and couldn't put a drive together to save his life?' considering the weapons at eli's disposal and those at smith's, the hypocrisy just jumps out at me. we had 1 catch from the WR position but 'alex smith had plenty of opportunities?'

that game was so hard to watch. that said, alex smith did EXACTLY what he had to: no TOs, take advantage of the opportunities given, leave the giants with a long field, and let the D and special teams win the game [like they had 14 times prior]. it was always going to be a low scoring game [not like the shootout vs the saints] and their pass rush and secondary handled the niners offense superbly. that said, that game was lost by kyle williams and our coaching staff [by letting KW stay on the PR team after his first 'fumble']. saying alex smith should have put the game away while also saying eli is a top flight quarterback is either disingenuous or one of those 'the grass is always greener' moments.

Maybe you need to be talking to the people who think Eli is the best QB in the league, because I'm pretty consistent with my criticisms/endorsements.

 

[jayviabay]

vvoland,

I got a question for you. Are you saying that Alex never had opportunities to make plays with his legs, once he seen the wide outs couldnt get separation the whole game? Do you really feel that he took advantage of every opportunity? If you have running ability and the secondary is blanketing your receivers, i would think there are running lanes available...

I agree that the coaches and kyle williams deserve the most blame.

 

[vvoland]

vvoland,

I got a question for you. Are you saying that Alex never had opportunities to make plays with his legs, once he seen the wide outs couldnt get separation the whole game? Do you really feel that he took advantage of every opportunity? If you have running ability and the secondary is blanketing your receivers, i would think there are running lanes available...

I agree that the coaches and kyle williams deserve the most blame.

do i feel alex smith made every play available to him? no. do i feel he did enough to win that game? yes. do i think he should have scrambled with greater regularity? maybe. i say maybe because scrambling on a consistent basis against the speed of the G's front 7 and the big hitters in the secondary may have led to a TO or an injury to our QB.

clyde, though the quote i highlighted came from your post, it wasn't directly aimed at you [or at least, not solely at you]. that said, let me ask you, how much would you give up to acquire eli for this team? personally, i don't think it's a huge upgrade [albeit i'll admit it is an upgrade on some level] but i am very much in the minority. basically, i'd give up a 2nd rounder for eli. many teams would give up multiple 1sts. i am not of the opinion that eli is the best qb in the L. for most people, he is in the conversation. SBs don't lie and all that...

 

[BallsOfFury]

I would place ST's above our running game - easy.

This. I'm concerned we didn't do enough to keep our #1 ST stud on the team and let Da Bearss pick him up. If Ginn packs his bags for Detroit or elsewhere that's another big hit on STs.

 

[Bemular]

This. I'm concerned we didn't do enough to keep our #1 ST stud on the team and let Da Bearss pick him up. If Ginn packs his bags for Detroit or elsewhere that's another big hit on STs.

Agree! - Agree! - Agree! Either we have equal or better ST studs waiting behind the curtain or we are willing to compromise some of our ST prowess for an improved offense. Which, if that is the strategy and it works - terrific, if not, there are going to be a lot of WTF's being tossed around - especially if Ginn signs for around 1m/yr like Blake did and both have stellar years with their new teams.

 

[RedneckNiner]

I won't argue the Niners got there in a large part due to defense. I'm not a huge Alex proponent but he limited mistakes and came up with some big plays to help the Niners get there. I am not saying Alex is elite or even close to elite. But I will give him credit for being part of why the Niners achieved so much last year. On the downside his tentativeness in the red zone an not willing to sling it into tight windows detracted from the Niners offense. Living in Vegas I have seen lots of Kaep an I don't believe he is anything special. As to Manning vs Alex... same money Manning. Alex for a couple more years plus money to sign offensive playmakers in my mind is greater blowing the whole load on Manning. I'd love to see the Niners upgrade the QB position.

 

[-AC-]

Just to put things into perspective, the offense was #1 in the league in starting field position. Yet we averaged a meager 12 points a game from TD's. Alex Smith might not be causing TO's and mistakes much anymore, but thats a silly argument to keep him at the helm...

Good for Alex for finaly stepping it up in the New Orleans game. But can we honestly hope or expect anything more than what we acheived this last season with such a deficiancy at the most important position on any team, the QB spot?

Trent Dilfer stories only come along every once in a great while...

Alex might have another decent season with newly added weapons to the offense. And the debate will continue for another season. But imagine what this team could acheive with even a top 10-15 QB running the offense...

Eli might not be in some peoples top 5 QB's, but atleast he 'plays to win', and doesn't play 'not to lose'. And he has 2 rings to show for it...

 

[MHSL82]

Just to put things into perspective, the offense was #1 in the league in starting field position. Yet we averaged a meager 12 points a game from TD's. Alex Smith might not be causing TO's and mistakes much anymore, but thats a silly argument to keep him at the helm...

Good for Alex for finaly stepping it up in the New Orleans game. But can we honestly hope or expect anything more than what we acheived this last season with such a deficiancy at the most important position on any team, the QB spot?

Trent Dilfer stories only come along every once in a great while...

Alex might have another decent season with newly added weapons to the offense. And the debate will continue for another season. But imagine what this team could acheive with even a top 10-15 QB running the offense...

Eli might not be in some peoples top 5 QB's, but atleast he 'plays to win', and doesn't play 'not to lose'. And he has 2 rings to show for it...

None of this mkes Alex a great QB, but this ir relavant in many ways. This emphasizes poor scoring, red zone deficiencies, and low efficiency on third down, but it puts the lack of yards in perspective.

This doesn't go toward Alex being a better QB than he is because the playcalls are limited because of who Alex is, but the playcalls being so conservative had an effect on the numbers as far as efficiency of third down and red zone. This is tied to the QB and the perception of the coaches of his abilities. The shorter te field the more conservative calls will be made if the coacing staff thinks/knows of the QB's limtations. So I'm not worried about the numbers but ratherthe ability he shows. I trust the coachs to know the potential they can expand.

 

[-AC-]

Playing with a shorter field should produce more TD's/points, not less...

The reason for conservative play calling is the deficiancy at QB, not because they were playing on a shorter field...

 

[clyde_carbon]

do i feel alex smith made every play available to him? no. do i feel he did enough to win that game? yes. do i think he should have scrambled with greater regularity? maybe. i say maybe because scrambling on a consistent basis against the speed of the G's front 7 and the big hitters in the secondary may have led to a TO or an injury to our QB.

clyde, though the quote i highlighted came from your post, it wasn't directly aimed at you [or at least, not solely at you]. that said, let me ask you, how much would you give up to acquire eli for this team? personally, i don't think it's a huge upgrade [albeit i'll admit it is an upgrade on some level] but i am very much in the minority. basically, i'd give up a 2nd rounder for eli. many teams would give up multiple 1sts. i am not of the opinion that eli is the best qb in the L. for most people, he is in the conversation. SBs don't lie and all that...

Can you show one person who's said he's the best QB in the league? And no, a dumb ass on ESPN doesn't count.

 

[MHSL82]

Playing with a shorter field should produce more TD's/points, not less...

The reason for conservative play calling is the deficiancy at QB, not because they were playing on a shorter field...

I'm sure some will appreciate the summary of what I said since I tend to write long. I just said that the stats are interconnected and only the number of yards were significantly affected by the shorter field in a way that could lend to better numbers without the shorter field (doesn't mean a thing if you march down only to fail in the red zone). I say this because everyone quotes the 195 yards per game. But absolutely, there are limitations at the QB position and both third down and red zone is bad in and amongst itself.

 

[vvoland]

Just to put things into perspective, the offense was #1 in the league in starting field position. Yet we averaged a meager 12 points a game from TD's. Alex Smith might not be causing TO's and mistakes much anymore, but thats a silly argument to keep him at the helm...

Good for Alex for finaly stepping it up in the New Orleans game. But can we honestly hope or expect anything more than what we acheived this last season with such a deficiancy at the most important position on any team, the QB spot?

Trent Dilfer stories only come along every once in a great while...

Alex might have another decent season with newly added weapons to the offense. And the debate will continue for another season. But imagine what this team could acheive with even a top 10-15 QB running the offense...

Eli might not be in some peoples top 5 QB's, but atleast he 'plays to win', and doesn't play 'not to lose'. And he has 2 rings to show for it...

so where would you put alex smith if not in the top 10-15? based on his year last year, not his entire career? there's rodgers, brees, brady, stafford... the obvious top 4. then there's eli, romo, big ben and schaub; that's my 2nd tier.
the third tier is more subjective but i have ryan, vick, rivers and.... ??? i think alex smith locks up that no 12 spot about as well as anyone else can [i'd take cam newton on potential alone, but on production for last year and this? not so sure]. i'm not a big fan of flacco or cutler but i don't think there's an argument that either are significantly better than smith.

as far as i'm concerned, our playcalling was less a reflection on smith than on the talent around him, our lack of training camp, the incredible D and ST we had, and the fact that our most talented offensive players was a TE and a RB. when we had to open it up [philly, saints, nyg - reg season] smith has shown an ability to make big plays [usually to players he trust to help him make the play, in his case, only VD]. the fact that he doesn't force throws into the end zone in the 2nd quarter is not a negative for me. if he had jennings, megatron, andre johnson, welker [with gronk and hernandez], fitz, et al i'm sure he'd gamble a bit more.. throw it up for grabs with more regularity. but can you blame him for not rifling it into crabtree or ginn? that said, just remember the end to the DET game: tiny window = game winning td.

i know i'm in the minority when i say we do not need to upgrade the qb position to win the SB. i was also in the minority last year when i did not think kolb or hass would be an upgrade. i think with a full TC, upgrades at WR [especially if we bring in lloyd or if we had traded for marshall], and another year for that young o-line to gel [people forget how awful PP was in stretches [sacked 14 times in weeks 2-4 and 18 times in weeks 12-14]] alex smith comes back far better and raises his level of play. by the same token, harbaugh should open up the offense a bit and get more creative in the passing game with moss [and maybe lloyd or a rookie] flanking crabs and VD.

clyde, i'm not about to search through this site to find a debate on eli.. he's in the conversation; that means to some people he is, to some he isn't. do you deny he's put himself into that conversation or are you saying that because you don't think he's elite [and neither do i, for that matter] that the perception doesn't exist? espn, for all its flaws, shapes a lot of the perception.. not just in fans' minds but also inside the L. just look at moss/to vs someone like big ben. and again, i wasn't trying to pick a fight w/ you. just curious why people who say 'smith had plenty of chances to win the game' don't say that about eli.. who had far better weapons to throw to and still needed 2 short fields to force OT and then win the game?

 

[mufasa76]

Playing with a shorter field should produce more TD's/points, not less...

The reason for conservative play calling is the deficiancy at QB, not because they were playing on a shorter field...

+1 watch the new orleans game again...


if i were Kap, i'll take the starting job....i don't think it will be that difficult to run the O with the weapons we will assemble...

 

[BINGO]

do i feel alex smith made every play available to him? no. do i feel he did enough to win that game? yes. do i think he should have scrambled with greater regularity? maybe. i say maybe because scrambling on a consistent basis against the speed of the G's front 7 and the big hitters in the secondary may have led to a TO or an injury to our QB.

clyde, though the quote i highlighted came from your post, it wasn't directly aimed at you [or at least, not solely at you]. that said, let me ask you, how much would you give up to acquire eli for this team? personally, i don't think it's a huge upgrade [albeit i'll admit it is an upgrade on some level] but i am very much in the minority. basically, i'd give up a 2nd rounder for eli. many teams would give up multiple 1sts. i am not of the opinion that eli is the best qb in the L. for most people, he is in the conversation. SBs don't lie and all that...

You are phucking crazy.


Oh yeah, did I mention to say that you are crazy.


If not let me remind you that you are

 

[BINGO]

so where would you put alex smith if not in the top 10-15? based on his year last year, not his entire career? there's rodgers, brees, brady, stafford... the obvious top 4. then there's eli, romo, big ben and schaub; that's my 2nd tier.
the third tier is more subjective but i have ryan, vick, rivers and.... ??? i think alex smith locks up that no 12 spot about as well as anyone else can [i'd take cam newton on potential alone, but on production for last year and this? not so sure]. i'm not a big fan of flacco or cutler but i don't think there's an argument that either are significantly better than smith.

as far as i'm concerned, our playcalling was less a reflection on smith than on the talent around him, our lack of training camp, the incredible D and ST we had, and the fact that our most talented offensive players was a TE and a RB. when we had to open it up [philly, saints, nyg - reg season] smith has shown an ability to make big plays [usually to players he trust to help him make the play, in his case, only VD]. the fact that he doesn't force throws into the end zone in the 2nd quarter is not a negative for me. if he had jennings, megatron, andre johnson, welker [with gronk and hernandez], fitz, et al i'm sure he'd gamble a bit more.. throw it up for grabs with more regularity. but can you blame him for not rifling it into crabtree or ginn? that said, just remember the end to the DET game: tiny window = game winning td.

i know i'm in the minority when i say we do not need to upgrade the qb position to win the SB. i was also in the minority last year when i did not think kolb or hass would be an upgrade. i think with a full TC, upgrades at WR [especially if we bring in lloyd or if we had traded for marshall], and another year for that young o-line to gel [people forget how awful PP was in stretches [sacked 14 times in weeks 2-4 and 18 times in weeks 12-14]] alex smith comes back far better and raises his level of play. by the same token, harbaugh should open up the offense a bit and get more creative in the passing game with moss [and maybe lloyd or a rookie] flanking crabs and VD.

clyde, i'm not about to search through this site to find a debate on eli.. he's in the conversation; that means to some people he is, to some he isn't. do you deny he's put himself into that conversation or are you saying that because you don't think he's elite [and neither do i, for that matter] that the perception doesn't exist? espn, for all its flaws, shapes a lot of the perception.. not just in fans' minds but also inside the L. just look at moss/to vs someone like big ben. and again, i wasn't trying to pick a fight w/ you. just curious why people who say 'smith had plenty of chances to win the game' don't say that about eli.. who had far better weapons to throw to and still needed 2 short fields to force OT and then win the game?

Let's follow the 2000 Ravens formula in order for that to happen:
Mario Williams is still available; Let's trade up for Dontari Poe; and hopefully that should put us close to their winning strategy which netted them a SB victory. That's the formula when dealing with a mediocre player at the QB position.

 

[threelittleturds]

You're crazy if you don't think Eli is better than Smith. Maybe not a huge difference physically, but Eli is mentally tougher and has the courage to make the risky passes. Until Smith recognizes that sometimes making a play is more important than not turning the ball over, he's always going to be an OK but not good enough starting QB.

 

[clyde_carbon]

clyde, i'm not about to search through this site to find a debate on eli.. he's in the conversation; that means to some people he is, to some he isn't. do you deny he's put himself into that conversation or are you saying that because you don't think he's elite [and neither do i, for that matter] that the perception doesn't exist? espn, for all its flaws, shapes a lot of the perception.. not just in fans' minds but also inside the L. just look at moss/to vs someone like big ben. and again, i wasn't trying to pick a fight w/ you. just curious why people who say 'smith had plenty of chances to win the game' don't say that about eli.. who had far better weapons to throw to and still needed 2 short fields to force OT and then win the game?

Give me a break. Your hyperbole is making it sound as if he's the consensus #1 QB in the league right now. No one in their right mind has him #1. No one is taking Eli over Brees, Rodgers, Brady, or even a healthy Peyton. And really, you'd only give a 2nd round pick for Eli? You'd be laughed right off the negotiating table. Kevin Kolb got two 2nd rounders. Carson Palmer got one 1st and one 2nd. You're sitting here telling me Eli is only worth a 2nd? In that case Alex is not worth more than a 5th.

How can you even say that Eli isn't that much better than Alex with a straight face? Are you fucking kidding me? I'm not even a fan of Eli and I find that beyond comical. Eli made throws in the NFCCG that Alex wouldn't even dream about attempting. Regardless of who won, Eli is clearly the more skilled passer without question.

And let's not make Alex something he's not. There's no question he improved his decision making, and thus he's improved as a QB, but let's not act if he was setting the world on fire last season. The only QB in the NFL that was asked to pass the ball less than Alex was Tebow. Tim freakin' Tebow. Alex's yards AND TDs per game actually DECREASED in 2011.

I don't know what's up with some people on this board and their distorted view of Alex. I've never seen such blind and reckless loyalty towards a player that has been largely disappointing. No one has ever bothered with Alex in FA. Even guys like Chad Henne and David Garrard have gotten ear play before Alex, what the fuck does that tell you?

 

[clyde_carbon]

Let's follow the 2000 Ravens formula in order for that to happen:
Mario Williams is still available; Let's trade up for Dontari Poe; and hopefully that should put us close to their winning strategy which netted them a SB victory. That's the formula when dealing with a mediocre player at the QB position.

Calling Alex a mediocre QB is off limits on this board, Bingo. You know that.

 

[deep9er]

Give me a break. Your hyperbole is making it sound as if he's the consensus #1 QB in the league right now. No one in their right mind has him #1. No one is taking Eli over Brees, Rodgers, Brady, or even a healthy Peyton. And really, you'd only give a 2nd round pick for Eli? You'd be laughed right off the negotiating table. Kevin Kolb got two 2nd rounders. Carson Palmer got one 1st and one 2nd. You're sitting here telling me Eli is only worth a 2nd? In that case Alex is not worth more than a 5th.

How can you even say that Eli isn't that much better than Alex with a straight face? Are you fucking kidding me? I'm not even a fan of Eli and I find that beyond comical. Eli made throws in the NFCCG that Alex wouldn't even dream about attempting. Regardless of who won, Eli is clearly the more skilled passer without question.

And let's not make Alex something he's not. There's no question he improved his decision making, and thus he's improved as a QB, but let's not act if he was setting the world on fire last season. The only QB in the NFL that was asked to pass the ball less than Alex was Tebow. Tim freakin' Tebow. Alex's yards AND TDs per game actually DECREASED in 2011.

I don't know what's up with some people on this board and their distorted view of Alex. I've never seen such blind and reckless loyalty towards a player that has been largely disappointing. No one has ever bothered with Alex in FA. Even guys like Chad Henne and David Garrard have gotten ear play before Alex, what the fuck does that tell you?

how ironic?

there aren't many who have a distorted view of Alex being a franchise QB, most are reasonable in that he isn't the 'future', but a good 'stop gap'.

you however, have a distorted view of Alex.....no question. at this point your view is well known and really ok, it is an opinion. but can't help finding that ironic.

 

[jayviabay]

one thing thats disgusting about our american society, the individuals who rather be politically correct instead of brutally honest. guys like vvoland Probably thinks talking alex smith up to be better than he is says, im not a hater or im the biggest die hard fan. we all root for alex to have success while he wears the uni but doesnt mean we have to wear blinders when it comes to his short comings. He is a mediocre QB and limits what our offense can accomplish in the passing game and how coaches can game plan. You can blame different OC for his progression if you like but you cant say he shouldnt have improved mentally or the way he throws those wobbly ducks out of bounds