Offseason thread, WR hunt, Cap Space now $4.768M not counting JJ and Jacobs

[Crimsoncrew]

Who said anything about big money and who cares what he did in St. Louis? His most recent and thus his only pertinent film says alot about what Grant brings to the table - today.

I have full faith in Marathe & Baalke but I think this is a risky move if our intent is to keep him, IMO.

By "big money," I mean mid-level starter money. Obviously not legitimately big money.

I'd imagine plenty of GMs care about what Grant did in St. Louis, compared to his three games in SF. It's probably a more accurate representation of what he'd do on most defenses.

Finally, I'm not convinced we want to keep him. If we did, we would have offered him a long-term contract. They probably just see an opportunity to get a pick. A 7th doesn't seem like much, but mong our most recent 7th round picks are Larry Grant himself, RJF, Philip Adams (looked good prior to injury, started several games for NE), and Bruce Miller. Better than watching him walk for nothing.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. Everything I ever said about Cazic and Smith now applies to you and Crabtree. You have honestly said some of the most ignorant things I have read on this board.

I'm torn between two options with you. Either Crabtree broke your heart, or Smith is sucking your dick.

It's offensive to way you slobber all over Smith on this board then turn around and treat Crabtree like he's the worst player in the league.

As Crimson said earlier, if your standards for wanting to get rid of Crabtree are he hasn't lived up to his draft spot and he's taken too long to establish himself, you should have cut bait with Smith 4 years ago.

That was my first thought, but I'm trying not to be mean to people after I hurt Southern's feelings last night.

 

[Flyingiguana]

See, again, this is where your credibility goes down the can.

In Smith's seven years in the league, no receiver has put up numbers like Crabtree has, poor as Crabtree's performance has been at times. Now, it's possible all of Smith's receivers have been garbage. And there's probably some truth to that. But I don't think it's a coincidence that no WRs have produced with Smith at QB. It's worth noting Antonio Bryant improved by 500 yards and 4 TDs when he left Smith for Jeff Garcia.

so crabtree having trouble getting seperation is gonna change with a new qb? crabtree having chronic problems with his feet, which is maybe the reason for his lack of seperation, is gonna change with a new qb?

dorsey isn't an nfl calibre starter because of his noodle arm. crabtree isn't an nfl calibre starter because of his lack of speed/quickness. this was a concern going into the combine, but he didn't run at all because of the problems with his feet.

now if he has chronic foot problems, later he will most likely end up with back and/or knee problems. he's gonna end up building a better rapport with the medical staff than he will a qb.

 

[imac_21]

Who said anything about big money and who cares what he did in St. Louis? His most recent and thus his only pertinent film says alot about what Grant brings to the table - today.

I have full faith in Marathe & Baalke but I think this is a risky move if our intent is to keep him, IMO.

Is he a "special" player? ILB/MLB is one of the easier positions to find a quality player at. I don't see Grant being a hot commodity on the fa market at all.

I also don't think there is anything wrong with "tying up" more money in the ILB position (can't remember who said that). We play with 2 ILB on the field at all times and we carried 3 of them last year. It isn't as if we have 35M tied up there. Bowman is still on his rookie contract.

 

[Flyingiguana]

I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. Everything I ever said about Cazic and Smith now applies to you and Crabtree. You have honestly said some of the most ignorant things I have read on this board.

I'm torn between two options with you. Either Crabtree broke your heart, or Smith is sucking your dick.

It's offensive to way you slobber all over Smith on this board then turn around and treat Crabtree like he's the worst player in the league.

As Crimson said earlier, if your standards for wanting to get rid of Crabtree are he hasn't lived up to his draft spot and he's taken too long to establish himself, you should have cut bait with Smith 4 years ago.

on these boards u cant say anything about crabtree without it turning into smith being the problem. vernon stepped up, where was crabtree? i know, he was trying out for dancing with the stars with webster

 

[imac_21]

on these boards u cant say anything about crabtree without it turning into smith being the problem. vernon stepped up, where was crabtree? i know, he was trying out for dancing with the stars with webster

No, you can't acknowledge that Smith is not a good QB.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

so crabtree having trouble getting seperation is gonna change with a new qb? crabtree having chronic problems with his feet, which is maybe the reason for his lack of seperation, is gonna change with a new qb?

dorsey isn't an nfl calibre starter because of his noodle arm. crabtree isn't an nfl calibre starter because of his lack of speed/quickness. this was a concern going into the combine, but he didn't run at all because of the problems with his feet.

now if he has chronic foot problems, later he will most likely end up with back and/or knee problems. he's gonna end up building a better rapport with the medical staff than he will a qb.

Again, Crabtree has produced more than any WR we have had since Smith joined the team. In fact, the only receiver we've had success throwing to is Vernon Davis, who is a physical freak. At the very least, Crabtree has shown that he's a decent #2. Comparing him to Dorsey is a joke. A QB with a very weak arm cannot be a good starter. The league is full of slow WRs. The league is full of slow WRs who are very good players.

It's possible every WR we've had has been garbage, or it's possible that Smith isn't a very good QB who can't or won't make the throws unless his receiver is wide open. Or the answer could be somewhere in the middle. I tend toward the last option. You keep insisting it's the first, despite all evidence to the contrary.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Is he a "special" player? ILB/MLB is one of the easier positions to find a quality player at. I don't see Grant being a hot commodity on the fa market at all.

I also don't think there is anything wrong with "tying up" more money in the ILB position (can't remember who said that). We play with 2 ILB on the field at all times and we carried 3 of them last year. It isn't as if we have 35M tied up there. Bowman is still on his rookie contract.

Tavares Gooden is an ILB. As is Costanzo, technically. We only had three OLBs.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

on these boards u cant say anything about crabtree without it turning into smith being the problem. vernon stepped up, where was crabtree? i know, he was trying out for dancing with the stars with webster

Why is it that we can't say anything about Smith without you turning it into Crabtree, the OL, or the coaching staff being the problem?

Vernon did step up in the championship game. No one else on offense did, including Smith. Again, two good throws out of 26. A few more tolerable throws. An a whole lot of shitty throws.

There comes a time in some games - many games - when the QB has to make a throw. Smith didn't even try. He put the ball in the ground. He played not to lose, and at least partly because of that, we did lose. It's not Smith's fault, necessarily, but he sure as hell didn't try to make something happen. But no, it's all the receivers, the OL, the coaching. Everything but the guy at the most important position. Cause Smith can do no wrong.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Btw, if Crabtree compares to Dorsey, who does Smith compare to at WR in your mind?

 

[Flyingiguana]

Again, Crabtree has produced more than any WR we have had since Smith joined the team. In fact, the only receiver we've had success throwing to is Vernon Davis, who is a physical freak. At the very least, Crabtree has shown that he's a decent #2. Comparing him to Dorsey is a joke. A QB with a very weak arm cannot be a good starter. The league is full of slow WRs. The league is full of slow WRs who are very good players.

It's possible every WR we've had has been garbage, or it's possible that Smith isn't a very good QB who can't or won't make the throws unless his receiver is wide open. Or the answer could be somewhere in the middle. I tend toward the last option. You keep insisting it's the first, despite all evidence to the contrary.

the concerns i have about crabtree are concerns that were before he was in the nfl. smith has never had anything close to an elite reciever. antonio bryant was by far the best and he dropped out of the league fairly quickly.

the physical limitations of crabtree are my concerns. even jerry rice hit it on the head. but yet, u guys can't see it. the same guys who bashed me when i wanted drew brees after his third season. please keep it up.

 

[imac_21]

Tavares Gooden is an ILB. As is Costanzo, technically. We only had three OLBs.

Those guys are Special Teamers. They're ILB in the same sense that Joe Hastings and Brett Swain were WRs. Or Colin Jones a safety. Brian Jennings a TE.

 

[Bemular]

By "big money," I mean mid-level starter money. Obviously not legitimately big money.

I'd imagine plenty of GMs care about what Grant did in St. Louis, compared to his three games in SF. It's probably a more accurate representation of what he'd do on most defenses.

Finally, I'm not convinced we want to keep him. If we did, we would have offered him a long-term contract. They probably just see an opportunity to get a pick. A 7th doesn't seem like much, but mong our most recent 7th round picks are Larry Grant himself, RJF, Philip Adams (looked good prior to injury, started several games for NE), and Bruce Miller. Better than watching him walk for nothing.

In the big picture what is known between St. Louis and here is that he has improved from being cut by the Rams to more than admirably backing up perhaps the best ILB in the game today.

The only thing the Rams film will provide any GM is contrast and insight to what Grant has improved upon and where he may still need to improve. But I would be surprised if any team interested in Grant is interested in him as a back-up.

I understand the point you are making about the other 7th rounders, but Grant was drafted in '08 - I would hate to have to wait another 4 years to have what it appears we may have right now.

 

[imac_21]

the concerns i have about crabtree are concerns that were before he was in the nfl. smith has never had anything close to an elite reciever. antonio bryant was by far the best and he dropped out of the league fairly quickly.

the physical limitations of crabtree are my concerns. even jerry rice hit it on the head. but yet, u guys can't see it. the same guys who bashed me when i wanted drew brees after his third season. please keep it up.

The same guy who chooses Alex Smith over Drew Brees now. . . .

No one is saying Crabtree is on the same level of Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald. If you remember, I was one of the most vocal posters against drafting Crabtree in 2009.

However, you talk about him as if he doesn't belong in the league. He put up better numbers at WR than any WR has ever done with Smith. Is Smith the best QB in the league right now, able to make WRs who should be on the scrap heap look decent?

 

[Flyingiguana]

Why is it that we can't say anything about Smith without you turning it into Crabtree, the OL, or the coaching staff being the problem?

Vernon did step up in the championship game. No one else on offense did, including Smith. Again, two good throws out of 26. A few more tolerable throws. An a whole lot of shitty throws.

There comes a time in some games - many games - when the QB has to make a throw. Smith didn't even try. He put the ball in the ground. He played not to lose, and at least partly because of that, we did lose. It's not Smith's fault, necessarily, but he sure as hell didn't try to make something happen. But no, it's all the receivers, the OL, the coaching. Everything but the guy at the most important position. Cause Smith can do no wrong.

what was working in the first half wasn't used in the 2nd. we got into 3rd and longs basically every drive which plays directly into the giants strengths. they adjusted their coverage to take out vernon and crabtree couldn't take advantage of the attention given to vernon. neither smith nor eli played well and given the weather conditions that was to be expected.

looking at earlier in the season, when we opened up the offense smith usually performed well. crabtree outside of a couple plays late in the year never stepped up. usually in crunch time crabtree was nowhere to be found.

 

[Flyingiguana]

The same guy who chooses Alex Smith over Drew Brees now. . . .
No one is saying Crabtree is on the same level of Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald. If you remember, I was one of the most vocal posters against drafting Crabtree in 2009.

However, you talk about him as if he doesn't belong in the league. He put up better numbers at WR than any WR has ever done with Smith. Is Smith the best QB in the league right now, able to make WRs who should be on the scrap heap look decent?

i would never choose smith over brees. i would take brees over any qb in the league. we dont have the cap space for brees.

 

[Flyingiguana]

The same guy who chooses Alex Smith over Drew Brees now. . . .

No one is saying Crabtree is on the same level of Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald. If you remember, I was one of the most vocal posters against drafting Crabtree in 2009.

However, you talk about him as if he doesn't belong in the league. He put up better numbers at WR than any WR has ever done with Smith. Is Smith the best QB in the league right now, able to make WRs who should be on the scrap heap look decent?

teams now know that crabtree can't beat press coverage

 

[imac_21]

teams now know that crabtree can't beat press coverage

They also know Smith won't make a lot of throws.

But were the Giants the first team to ever press Crabtree? Patrick Peterson tried pressing him the first game against the Cardinals and got torched.

 

[imac_21]

i would never choose smith over brees. i would take brees over any qb in the league. we dont have the cap space for brees.

Cap space can be created. Brees cap number can be limited in 2012 as well.

 

[Flyingiguana]

They also know Smith won't make a lot of throws.

But were the Giants the first team to ever press Crabtree? Patrick Peterson tried pressing him the first game against the Cardinals and got torched.

didn't peterson slip then he was playing off of crabtree