Official Seahawks vs Packers smack thread

[LambeauLegs]

Look at the Packer D and compare it to Seattle's.
Seattle has played one more game than GB and has allowed 235 points against while the Pack has allowed 312 points against.
Even after giving up a whole lotta points to the Pack, the Seahawks still have a decent chance to win the defensive scoring title again this year.
It just comes off as humorous to me to try to put down something that is obvious most team's envy.

If you would play 4 or 5 games without your top 3 corners and our top linebacker along with both starting middle linebackers for that length of time my guess is you would have more points scored against you. That would be over half of your starting defense. It is simple to see if you go look at the packer losing streak you will see games where close to 40 points allowed for those 4 games.

If we look at the 9 games when most of the defense was healthy the Packers allowed 159 points or an average of 17.66 points per game which would be 3rd in the NFL

The 4 games where the team was missing 6 starters due to injury the defense allowed 153 points or 6 points less that the other 9 games. The average allowed per game during that time 38.25 points.

The good thing is the team that allowed that amount of points is not the defense that is playing now. With players mostly healthy and with more experience with the second year D backs they have allowed 36 points in the last 3 games with games of 13, 13, and then only 10 from the tough Seahawk team. This gives an average of 12 points per game with a healthy defense again.

So if the Packer defense when healthy is in the top 3 in points against I have nothing to envy when your team is less than 1 point different per game. The Pack does not get to play the teams in the NFCW twice a year to help pad the stats.

My guess is if you had players Wright, Morgan, Wagner, Shead, Sherman, and Lane all out for 4 games in a row that you would not have a 16.8 points against average.

Your defense has regressed as in the last several years it has been top 5 in most all stats. This year the Seahawk defense is 7th in total yards, 7th in passing yards, and 9th in rush defense. The Pack is 13th in total yards so closer to top 10 than not even with more than half the defense out for 4 or games. They are 10th in run D an area that has not had the injuries and 19th in pass D.

My question for you is what are your thoughts on the Seahawks rush defense? I mean it looked a bit better against the Rams of course but in the 3 previous games there was only one sack which was a coverage sack after Rodgers was limping around for 5 seconds or so they finally caught him once. Is there a concern when you play teams other than the Rams that there is a lack of pass rush? A good pass rush makes the D Backs look better. Adams was torching Lane play after play so Sherman tries to knock him out of the game with a cheap shot that he got fined for.

My thoughts on why we are seeing this regression on the Seahawks defense would be age and Schnieders drafting. So lets take a look.

All your main players on defense that were drafted by Seattle were taken from 2010 to 2012

2010 = Thomas and Chancelor 2011 = Sherman and Wright 2012 = Wagner and Lane

If we look since then here is what we have on players drafted by Seattle

2013 Draft and players still on the team: Luke Wilson TE and yes a second team TE and yes the only player left of 12 that were drafted. In that draft there were 5 defensive players taken that are no longer on the team. 2 O line players were also drafted so they were not good as well. Keeping 1 player from a draft is bad for depth. So one player kept but not a starter

2014 Draft and players still on team: Justin Britt a starter, Cassius Marsh 2cnd team LB, Pierre Louis a 3rd team LB and yes that is it. There were 2 other defensive players taken but not kept. So the 2014 draft has 3 players on the team with one of them a starter

2015 Draft and players still on the team: Frank Clark, T Lockett, Glowinski with the one starter of that group being Glowinski which nobody is happy about. In that draft there were 3 other defensive players that were drafted that are not on the team. So 2015 draft has 3 players on the team with the one starter on the O line that sucks.

2016 Draft and players still on the team: Ifedi, Reed, Prosise, Vannett, Odhiambo, Collins, and Hunt. So 7 of the 10 that were drafted and of those 7 one is a starter Ifedi on a struggling o line and 2 others are back ups on a struggling o line. O line drafting needs t improve on this team. The packers back up O line would start on the Seahawks. The running backs drafted are low on the depth chart or injured. In the 2016 draft there were only 2 defense players taken in the draft with Reed still on the team

Now if we review these past drafts and how the defense has been trying to be sustained we see that from 2013 to present there have been 16 defensive players drafted and 4 are still on the team. With drafts like that there will not be adequate back ups to take the place of your aging veterans

Thus my point an over paid aging defense with limited depth to replace them as they slow down. It does appear they are slowing down with their lower defensive rankings and limited pass rush against decent O lines. I am sure you can feel good about the low scoring defense # but remember that you get to keep that low by playing the Rams, Cards, and 49ers twice.

Again what are your thoughts on why the Seahawks pass rush has been limited lately. I wasnt expecting Rodgers to just be able to sit back there and pick apart the secondary?

 

[HaroldSeattle]

My thoughts on why we are seeing this regression on the Seahawks defense would be age and Schnieders drafting.

Age? There are only 4 players older then 29 on the defense counting both starters and back ups.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Packers starters 29 and over...... Guion NT 29, Clay Matthew 30, Julius Peppers 36, Sam Shields 29 You might want to worry about your teams D going forward.

 

[SonnyCID]

Packers starters 29 and over...... Guion NT 29, Clay Matthew 30, Julius Peppers 36, Sam Shields 29 You might want to worry about your teams D going forward.

Yep. That may have something to do with why their 3rd in their div.

 

[LambeauLegs]

Packers starters 29 and over...... Guion NT 29, Clay Matthew 30, Julius Peppers 36, Sam Shields 29 You might want to worry about your teams D going forward.

UM Shields is done and has not started but wait up and am putting something together for you to look at and Peppers is not a starter

 

[HaroldSeattle]

UM Shields is done and has not started but wait up and am putting something together for you to look at and Peppers is not a starter

Yes Shield probably should just retire for his own good and Father Time caught up with Peppers. You say these two are not starters, but they were at the start of the season I believe. If Matthews starts fading..........

 

[LambeauLegs]

Packers starters 29 and over...... Guion NT 29, Clay Matthew 30, Julius Peppers 36, Sam Shields 29 You might want to worry about your teams D going forward.

If we look at the last 4 drafts which would mean they are younger players and compare the teams and their drafts to see how many starters were drafted and how many are still on the team as depth on defense this is what we find.

2013 Draft:

Seattle has 1 player drafted still on the team Luke Wilson a tight end so no younger defensive help to create depth. Defensive help in 2013 = 0

Packers have 5 players still on the team Datone Jones, Lacy, Tretter, Bahktari, and Micah Hyde. 3 of those are starters on offense and Hyde plays a majority of the defense snaps so in 2013 there is 1 D player pretty much a starter and D Jones is a decent back up with no let up in play if a linebacker goes down

2014 Draft:

Seattle has 3 players drafted still on the team. Britt first team, Marsh 2cnd team, Pierre-Louis 3rd team. So there you drafted 2 defensive players still on the team but no starters. Are you comfortable with Marsh or Pierre-Louis playing if starters went down? Defensive help in 2014 = 2 back ups one is 3rd team in depth chart

Packers have 7 players on the team but on Goodson is on IR. Of those 7 there 3 on defense and 4 on offense. On offense there is Linsely who shared starting time with Tretter depending on who has not been injured but both are top NFL centers and would start on most any NFL team, then there is D Adams a receiver, and R Rodgers a TE and J Janis. On defense there is Clinton Dix, Bradford and Goodson who is on IR. Defensive help was 1 quality starter in Clinton Dix and a #2 linebacker

2015 Draft:

Seattle has 3 players drafted still on the team with those players being F Clark listed as 2cnd team on the depth chart, Glowinske on O line need I say more, and T Locket #3 on the depth chart. Defensive help is one player who is not listed as a starter

Packers have 6 players drafted still on the team. And 5 of them are current starters on the team with more on defense this year. On offense there is Ripkowski starting fullback andMontgomery now a starting running back/receiver. On defense there is Randall and Rollins who you saw quite a bit a week or so ago as the top cornerbacks, Ryan the starting inside linebacker and Ringo a D line back up. Defensive help was very good with 3 starters and 1 back up

2016 Draft:

Seattle has 7 players still on the team. 6 of them are on offense including Ifedi, Prosise, Vannett, Odhiambo,Collins, and Hunt. The one starter is Ifedi on that struggling O line. Others re back up on the struggling O line. There is one defensive player Reed who is listed as a back up. Defensive help this draft is 1 back up D line player

Packers have 7 players still on the team. 3 on offense with those players being Spriggs on O line who has filled in for the injured Lang without having a negative effect, Davis a receiver was 7th round has not played much and Kyle Murphy a O line back up you would like to have. On Defense there are starting linebacker Martinez, starter K Clark on the D line, Back up D line Lowry who sacked Wilson, and back up linebacker Fackrell who has played some but has also been out the last 3 weeks or so. Defensive help = 2 starters and 2 back ups

So as we put all these numbers together here is what we have in the drafts between the Packers and Seattle from 2013 to 2016.

Seattle:

Players drafted that are still on the team over those 4 years = 14
Defensive starters drafted = 0
Defensive Back up drafted = 4

Packers:

Players drafted still on the team over those 4 years = 25
Defensive starters drafted = 7
Defensive Back ups = 5

So in review the Packers have drafted 7 defensive starters in the last 4 years and Seattle has drafted 0. The Packers have also drafted more of their defensive back ups in the last 4 years than the Seahawks.

When most logical people other than Seahawk fans would look at this info they would agree that the Seahawls defense is aging as there is no or limited younger talent coming in when you look at the last 4 drafts.

When the Packer D starters were not injured and able to play they did fairly well with like 17.5 points against defense in the games where starters Matthews, Martinez, Ryan, Randall, and Rollins, were playing. When you wipe out 3 of your 4 starting line backers and your top 3 corners chances are more points will be scored and they were at about 38 a game.

But I would rather have a team where 7 starters were drafted in the last 4 years that can put up a 17.5 points against when the majority of them are there to play than a team that has not drafted a defensive starter in the last 4 years. I am not sure if I would be the only one that feels that way but that is my opinion.

Looking at this info I am glad you extended Schnieders contract.

 

[LambeauLegs]

Yes Shield probably should just retire for his own good and Father Time caught up with Peppers. You say these two are not starters, but they were at the start of the season I believe. If Matthews starts fading..........

peppers has not been a starter all year, Perry and Matthews have been starters and yes Matthews is off the field more than on it

 

[SonnyCID]

UM Shields is done and has not started but wait up and am putting something together for you to look at and Peppers is not a starter

2 of the top 3 highest paid defenders aren't starters? And this reflects well on personnel decisions?

 

[SonnyCID]

If we look at the last 4 drafts which would mean they are younger players and compare the teams and their drafts to see how many starters were drafted and how many are still on the team as depth on defense this is what we find.

2013 Draft:

Seattle has 1 player drafted still on the team Luke Wilson a tight end so no younger defensive help to create depth. Defensive help in 2013 = 0

Packers have 5 players still on the team Datone Jones, Lacy, Tretter, Bahktari, and Micah Hyde. 3 of those are starters on offense and Hyde plays a majority of the defense snaps so in 2013 there is 1 D player pretty much a starter and D Jones is a decent back up with no let up in play if a linebacker goes down

2014 Draft:

Seattle has 3 players drafted still on the team. Britt first team, Marsh 2cnd team, Pierre-Louis 3rd team. So there you drafted 2 defensive players still on the team but no starters. Are you comfortable with Marsh or Pierre-Louis playing if starters went down? Defensive help in 2014 = 2 back ups one is 3rd team in depth chart

Packers have 7 players on the team but on Goodson is on IR. Of those 7 there 3 on defense and 4 on offense. On offense there is Linsely who shared starting time with Tretter depending on who has not been injured but both are top NFL centers and would start on most any NFL team, then there is D Adams a receiver, and R Rodgers a TE and J Janis. On defense there is Clinton Dix, Bradford and Goodson who is on IR. Defensive help was 1 quality starter in Clinton Dix and a #2 linebacker

2015 Draft:

Seattle has 3 players drafted still on the team with those players being F Clark listed as 2cnd team on the depth chart, Glowinske on O line need I say more, and T Locket #3 on the depth chart. Defensive help is one player who is not listed as a starter

Packers have 6 players drafted still on the team. And 5 of them are current starters on the team with more on defense this year. On offense there is Ripkowski starting fullback andMontgomery now a starting running back/receiver. On defense there is Randall and Rollins who you saw quite a bit a week or so ago as the top cornerbacks, Ryan the starting inside linebacker and Ringo a D line back up. Defensive help was very good with 3 starters and 1 back up

2016 Draft:

Seattle has 7 players still on the team. 6 of them are on offense including Ifedi, Prosise, Vannett, Odhiambo,Collins, and Hunt. The one starter is Ifedi on that struggling O line. Others re back up on the struggling O line. There is one defensive player Reed who is listed as a back up. Defensive help this draft is 1 back up D line player

Packers have 7 players still on the team. 3 on offense with those players being Spriggs on O line who has filled in for the injured Lang without having a negative effect, Davis a receiver was 7th round has not played much and Kyle Murphy a O line back up you would like to have. On Defense there are starting linebacker Martinez, starter K Clark on the D line, Back up D line Lowry who sacked Wilson, and back up linebacker Fackrell who has played some but has also been out the last 3 weeks or so. Defensive help = 2 starters and 2 back ups

So as we put all these numbers together here is what we have in the drafts between the Packers and Seattle from 2013 to 2016.

Seattle:

Players drafted that are still on the team over those 4 years = 14
Defensive starters drafted = 0
Defensive Back up drafted = 4

Packers:

Players drafted still on the team over those 4 years = 25
Defensive starters drafted = 7
Defensive Back ups = 5

So in review the Packers have drafted 7 defensive starters in the last 4 years and Seattle has drafted 0. The Packers have also drafted more of their defensive back ups in the last 4 years than the Seahawks.

When most logical people other than Seahawk fans would look at this info they would agree that the Seahawls defense is aging as there is no or limited younger talent coming in when you look at the last 4 drafts.

When the Packer D starters were not injured and able to play they did fairly well with like 17.5 points against defense in the games where starters Matthews, Martinez, Ryan, Randall, and Rollins, were playing. When you wipe out 3 of your 4 starting line backers and your top 3 corners chances are more points will be scored and they were at about 38 a game.

But I would rather have a team where 7 starters were drafted in the last 4 years that can put up a 17.5 points against when the majority of them are there to play than a team that has not drafted a defensive starter in the last 4 years. I am not sure if I would be the only one that feels that way but that is my opinion.

Looking at this info I am glad you extended Schnieders contract.

I remember reading an article after 2008 season when the Hawks were one of the worst teams in the league. And they had the most drafted players of any team in the league. The Packers do have better personnel than that team, though the Seahawks did finish 3rd in the division, so depending on how things go these last few weeks they could have a lot in common.

 

[Uhsplit]

If we look at the last 4 drafts which would mean they are younger players and compare the teams and their drafts to see how many starters were drafted and how many are still on the team as depth on defense this is what we find.

2013 Draft:

Seattle has 1 player drafted still on the team Luke Wilson a tight end so no younger defensive help to create depth. Defensive help in 2013 = 0

Packers have 5 players still on the team Datone Jones, Lacy, Tretter, Bahktari, and Micah Hyde. 3 of those are starters on offense and Hyde plays a majority of the defense snaps so in 2013 there is 1 D player pretty much a starter and D Jones is a decent back up with no let up in play if a linebacker goes down

2014 Draft:

Seattle has 3 players drafted still on the team. Britt first team, Marsh 2cnd team, Pierre-Louis 3rd team. So there you drafted 2 defensive players still on the team but no starters. Are you comfortable with Marsh or Pierre-Louis playing if starters went down? Defensive help in 2014 = 2 back ups one is 3rd team in depth chart

Packers have 7 players on the team but on Goodson is on IR. Of those 7 there 3 on defense and 4 on offense. On offense there is Linsely who shared starting time with Tretter depending on who has not been injured but both are top NFL centers and would start on most any NFL team, then there is D Adams a receiver, and R Rodgers a TE and J Janis. On defense there is Clinton Dix, Bradford and Goodson who is on IR. Defensive help was 1 quality starter in Clinton Dix and a #2 linebacker

2015 Draft:

Seattle has 3 players drafted still on the team with those players being F Clark listed as 2cnd team on the depth chart, Glowinske on O line need I say more, and T Locket #3 on the depth chart. Defensive help is one player who is not listed as a starter

Packers have 6 players drafted still on the team. And 5 of them are current starters on the team with more on defense this year. On offense there is Ripkowski starting fullback andMontgomery now a starting running back/receiver. On defense there is Randall and Rollins who you saw quite a bit a week or so ago as the top cornerbacks, Ryan the starting inside linebacker and Ringo a D line back up. Defensive help was very good with 3 starters and 1 back up

2016 Draft:

Seattle has 7 players still on the team. 6 of them are on offense including Ifedi, Prosise, Vannett, Odhiambo,Collins, and Hunt. The one starter is Ifedi on that struggling O line. Others re back up on the struggling O line. There is one defensive player Reed who is listed as a back up. Defensive help this draft is 1 back up D line player

Packers have 7 players still on the team. 3 on offense with those players being Spriggs on O line who has filled in for the injured Lang without having a negative effect, Davis a receiver was 7th round has not played much and Kyle Murphy a O line back up you would like to have. On Defense there are starting linebacker Martinez, starter K Clark on the D line, Back up D line Lowry who sacked Wilson, and back up linebacker Fackrell who has played some but has also been out the last 3 weeks or so. Defensive help = 2 starters and 2 back ups

So as we put all these numbers together here is what we have in the drafts between the Packers and Seattle from 2013 to 2016.

Seattle:

Players drafted that are still on the team over those 4 years = 14
Defensive starters drafted = 0
Defensive Back up drafted = 4

Packers:

Players drafted still on the team over those 4 years = 25
Defensive starters drafted = 7
Defensive Back ups = 5

So in review the Packers have drafted 7 defensive starters in the last 4 years and Seattle has drafted 0. The Packers have also drafted more of their defensive back ups in the last 4 years than the Seahawks.

When most logical people other than Seahawk fans would look at this info they would agree that the Seahawls defense is aging as there is no or limited younger talent coming in when you look at the last 4 drafts.

When the Packer D starters were not injured and able to play they did fairly well with like 17.5 points against defense in the games where starters Matthews, Martinez, Ryan, Randall, and Rollins, were playing. When you wipe out 3 of your 4 starting line backers and your top 3 corners chances are more points will be scored and they were at about 38 a game.

But I would rather have a team where 7 starters were drafted in the last 4 years that can put up a 17.5 points against when the majority of them are there to play than a team that has not drafted a defensive starter in the last 4 years. I am not sure if I would be the only one that feels that way but that is my opinion.

Looking at this info I am glad you extended Schnieders contract.

Compare UDFA's, not just draft choices.
Now how does it look?

 

[HaroldSeattle]

So in review the Packers have drafted 7 defensive starters in the last 4 years and Seattle has drafted 0. The Packers have also drafted more of their defensive back ups in the last 4 years than the Seahawks.

Which simply shows that the Packers were scrambling for defense and the Seahawks already had the players in place.

When most logical people other than Seahawk fans would look at this info they would agree that the Seahawls defense is aging as there is no or limited younger talent coming in when you look at the last 4 drafts.

Seahawks defense is young and unlike the Packers the Seahawks continue to look for talent in UDFA. It's has made a lot of difference.

Looking at this info I am glad you extended Schnieders contract.

Cool, so do we. Unlike the lazy GM the Packers have Schnieder keeps working after the draft, signing UDFA. The proof is in the pudding, all you have to do is see where each defense is at the end of the season and you can go back for years and it is always the same and will be this year.

 

[Uhsplit]

Yea as you have an over paid aging defense and no money to pay for an o line giving you one of the lower rated offenses in the league. An O line that is getting your franchise QB hurt and is under pressure constantly having to force throws with interceptions adding up now. A bad offense can be overcome by a great defense like Denver last year but your defense has been getting worse as the year goes on and has not been scoring needed points to make up for the lackluster offense

So if our D is overpaid and aging, how do you describe GB's D?
For certain, GB's D is more expensive at not nearly as effective as Seattle's.
I'm pretty sure you have referenced our fan base as bandwaggoner's who know little about football, but jeeze man you look totally out of touch regarding your comments on the strength of Seattle's team.

 

[darken65]

'Hawk fans making sense. I must be hungover or something.

 

[Uhsplit]

'Hawk fans making sense. I must be hungover or something.

Allow me to buy you a drink

 

[LambeauLegs]

2 of the top 3 highest paid defenders aren't starters? And this reflects well on personnel decisions?

Concussions are a tough thing hard to know when that happens. If he would not have hit his head he would be starting. Are you suggesting the Packers should have cut him like they did when they got rid of over priced pro bowl guard Sitton and replaced him with depth and have not missed a beat still being one of the top O lines in the league.

I guess they could have cut Shields as without him when able to play and not hurt with Randall and Rollins and a healthy D they have been averaging about 17.5 points against on D which would be 3rd in the league.

Peppers is in the last of his 3 year contract and is not listed as a starter. He plays quite a few snaps a game and the idea was to limit snaps early in the season to keep him fresh for December football. That strategy has paid off as he played full time with Perry out with a few bones broke in his hand against Seattle and he had a good game and is ready for more.

I know you want to think that Peppers is just sitting on the bench getting paid for doing nothing but that is not the case

 

[LambeauLegs]

I remember reading an article after 2008 season when the Hawks were one of the worst teams in the league. And they had the most drafted players of any team in the league. The Packers do have better personnel than that team, though the Seahawks did finish 3rd in the division, so depending on how things go these last few weeks they could have a lot in common.

Are you happy with no drafted starters on Defense in the last 4 years?

 

[LambeauLegs]

Compare UDFA's, not just draft choices.
Now how does it look?

I will have to look at that and each year the Packers usually keep 2 or more so I will report back

 

[chf]

Concussions are a tough thing hard to know when that happens. If he would not have hit his head he would be starting. Are you suggesting the Packers should have cut him like they did when they got rid of over priced pro bowl guard Sitton and replaced him with depth and have not missed a beat still being one of the top O lines in the league.

I guess they could have cut Shields as without him when able to play and not hurt with Randall and Rollins and a healthy D they have been averaging about 17.5 points against on D which would be 3rd in the league.

Peppers is in the last of his 3 year contract and is not listed as a starter. He plays quite a few snaps a game and the idea was to limit snaps early in the season to keep him fresh for December football. That strategy has paid off as he played full time with Perry out with a few bones broke in his hand against Seattle and he had a good game and is ready for more.

I know you want to think that Peppers is just sitting on the bench getting paid for doing nothing but that is not the case

No, he wants you to use the same level of nuance and distinction when looking at the Seahawks.








I'm funny.

 

[Great Dayne]

I know the NFCW is off this year, but your comment made me want to lookup how GB has fared against the other divisions in playoff games since Seattle was brought into the NFC from the 2002 realignment.
Going back in time from last year to 2002 for GB playoff games only.
Last year Az knocked you out.
Seattle KO'd GB the year before that.
Then SF took you out.
SF again.
NYG ruined GB's season
GB wins the SB
Az
NYG again
Minn
Philly
Atl.
In summary GB playoff losses since 2002 look like this...
1 from the NFCN
3 from the NFCE
1 from the NFCS
5 from the pathetic division.
If we look at which division has played in the SB since the 2002 realignment the survey says...
NFCN 2 appearances
NFCE 3 appearances
NFCS 4 appearances
pathetic division 5 appearances.
Are you a hurt Nancy?

My comment was about the regular season not the postseason.