Now the Browns rumor.

[Sharkinva]

everyone keeps forgetting about the transition tag he isnt free in 18 . that being said this is a negotiation and shit happens . he will stay

it could be another 15 years before we get a real franchise qb

I think we have a franchise QB provided we keep Kirk. But I agree it could be 15 years or not in our life times before the Redskins manage to secure an elite QB.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

everyone keeps forgetting about the transition tag he isnt free in 18 . that being said this is a negotiation and shit happens . he will stay

it could be another 15 years before we get a real franchise qb

I certainly hope it doesn't come to that but would not surprise me. This ad hoc approach to Cousins is such a joke. By doing all of this one year at a time it just costing them way too much. Just cut your losses & extend the guy already (even if it is viewed as overpaying him). Whatever reputation is left for this franchise could be destroyed if they get rid of Cousins (barring a miracle next season).

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I think we have a franchise QB provided we keep Kirk. But I agree it could be 15 years or not in our life times before the Redskins manage to secure an elite QB.

Are you willing to suffer through 15 more years of this type of nonsense? Extending Cousins will at least show that this franchise has learned something in the recent past. I don't want to see a scenario in say 2020 where they are still rebuilding and Skinsdad says "Patience guys - these things take time".

 

[Sharkinva]

Are you willing to suffer through 15 more years of this type of nonsense? Extending Cousins will at least show that this franchise has learned something in the recent past. I don't want to see a scenario in say 2020 where they are still rebuilding and Skinsdad says "Patience guys - these things take time".

I think you know my stance on this. But for the record, no I dont want to see us go back into the must find an elite QB mode. We have thrown enough resources into the quest for the greatest. Sign Kirk long term, build the rest of the team, and develop a QB if you still arent happy with Kirk in 3-5 years.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

OMG - just listened to the NBC/Profootballtalk discussion w/ Florio that is the basis for this. Florio makes up just about everything & takes word twisting to a whole new level (along w/ that idiot sidekick of his). In the process he pretty much portrays everyone as liars - as if he is the only one who knows what is going on this case. This guy rivals Snyder and Allen in terms of ego & in his case it is completely unwarranted.

I guess that we live in a era where most of the media is totally unconcerned about facts and credibility.

 

[Stymietee]

Let me rebut a few positions here if I might but before I do my position hasn't changed I firmly believe that the blind squirrels will find away to get Cousins signed here. However;


Belief: For those who say that teams are dumpster fires because of instability at QB.


Rebut: Isn't it logical in following this line of thought that, if, Kirk goes to Cleveland for example, the stability that we believe we have goes with him? If so, Cleveland becomes us and supposedly we become them in terms of stability, correct?


Belief: More instability in search of that guy will take another 15 - 20 years.


Rebut: This one is more complicated considering our front office, that said, there is too much value being placed at Kirk's feet and not enough at Gruden's feet in terms of his system being uniquely set up for Cousins. So let's look at that: Gruden's offense requires a QB that in essence is a pocket passer, with good mechanics, makes good decisions and delivers the ball both quickly and on time and we're trying to convince ourselves that it will take 15- 20 years to find that correct? Nonsense, the Dan and Bruce factor is huge though and must be considered the biggest impediment in getting that guy.


Belief: There's no one better right now.


Rebut: Interpreted as "there's no one better right now that you ( generic you) like." Truth is there are some players right now in the league who, even if you don't like them, can run this offense as well if not better than Kirk. On this point I expect the most blowback, mainly because there is an emotional attachment to Cousins that rivals that which some accused others of having with his predecessor. If you ( again the generic you) are able to forgo your feelings and look at the qualification noted previously, you'll see the truth in this statement.


That's it, I'm going to save the one about Cousins himself.

 

[Sharkinva]

Belief: More instability in search of that guy will take another 15 - 20 years.


Rebut: This one is more complicated considering our front office, that said, there is too much value being placed at Kirk's feet and not enough at Gruden's feet in terms of his system being uniquely set up for Cousins. So let's look at that: Gruden's offense requires a QB that in essence is a pocket passer, with good mechanics, makes good decisions and delivers the ball both quickly and on time and we're trying to convince ourselves that it will take 15- 20 years to find that correct? Nonsense, the Dan and Bruce factor is huge though and must be considered the biggest impediment in getting that guy.

I will just rebut these two. Will it take 15-20 years to find a QB equal to what Kirk does in this offense?? Probably not. But apparently Kirk isnt good enough for some, and they want better. The truth is, better than Kirk is borderline, or outright elite. And I do think it will take 15-20 years to secure an elite QB, and we might bith be dead by the time it actually happens if ever. Rogers, Bradys, Mannings (Peyton).... they dont come around that often. The fact that all three played in the same point in time is amazing actually.

Belief: There's no one better right now.


Rebut: Interpreted as "there's no one better right now that you ( generic you) like." Truth is there are some players right now in the league who, even if you don't like them, can run this offense as well if not better than Kirk. On this point I expect the most blowback, mainly because there is an emotional attachment to Cousins that rivals that which some accused others of having with his predecessor. If you ( again the generic you) are able to forgo your feelings and look at the qualification noted previously, you'll see the truth in this statement.

Yes there are QBs better than Kirk, and there might actually be a couple who are better that arent starting for their current team. But two things here

1. They might be better. McCarron Might be better.. but fact is on his limited amount of work he just as well might be Matt Cassell

2. McCarron and Grap (the two names offered up) arent currently available. Now sure again they might be better, and we might actually be able to pry them loose from their respective teams.... but at what cost? 1 first round pick? Two? Multiple picks?? What happens if we trade for one of them and they have an OK year, but not quite what we got from Kirk. And we are once again in the situation of needing to either Franchise tag a QB, or make a massive investment?? So I agree, there are guys who might actually be better.... but availability and cost to get them has got to be factored in.

 

[Sharkinva]

Just how much of a void would a Kirk Cousins departure create in D.C.? Over the past two seasons, only Tom Brady and reigning NFL MVP Matt Ryan have posted a better Total QBR (min. 500 attempts)

Just figured i would share. Rather decent company for not being a franchise QB.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Apparently the cost to get Grap was 2 #1's and 2 #2's. If this is true I would be curious to see what Cle offers. They are clueless so if we get a 4 or 5 picks I would laugh my ass off.

Jimmy G is still in NE so maybe CLE is getting a clue....maybe. lol

But...wow! At least from the outside, it's really looking as if KC will not be in WAS long term. I know some people felt the tag LY was a mistake and in hindsight it was. If KC was too thin skinned to realize he had not earned a long term deal off 1 season so he was determined to stick it to WAS with an even larger amount this time then he's just a culpable imo.

 

[Stymietee]

I will just rebut these two. Will it take 15-20 years to find a QB equal to what Kirk does in this offense?? Probably not. But apparently Kirk isnt good enough for some, and they want better. The truth is, better than Kirk is borderline, or outright elite. And I do think it will take 15-20 years to secure an elite QB, and we might bith be dead by the time it actually happens if ever. Rogers, Bradys, Mannings (Peyton).... they dont come around that often. The fact that all three played in the same point in time is amazing actually.





Yes there are QBs better than Kirk, and there might actually be a couple who are better that aren't starting for their current team. But two things here

1. They might be better. McCarron Might be better.. but fact is on his limited amount of work he just as well might be Matt Cassell

2. McCarron and Grap (the two names offered up) aren't currently available. Now sure again they might be better, and we might actually be able to pry them loose from their respective teams.... but at what cost? 1 first round pick? Two? Multiple picks?? What happens if we trade for one of them and they have an OK year, but not quite what we got from Kirk. And we are once again in the situation of needing to either Franchise tag a QB, or make a massive investment?? So I agree, there are guys who might actually be better.... but availability and cost to get them has got to be factored in.

OK, So one at a time:

While I appreciate your perspective that Kirk is a step or two below the elites in the league, we will have to agree to disagree on that one. For me he's 12 - 15 in the league because of the combination of how he plays and the system that fits his style. The caveat being that right now he's the best that we have at the position. No I'll not name those that I believe to be ahead of him, to me it's obvious, but you of course won't agree, so there's that.

Wanting better is now a fault? Really?? Maybe we should have stuck with Colt McCoy, Tyler Polumbus, Kia Forbath and Tanard Jackson as starters. Let us not forget, if we're honest, before Gruden arrived Kirk was himself Matt Cassell redux, if not worse. All we need is a fit or better fit than Kirk as detailed and we don't miss a beat.

In terms of availability and cost, please note the reference to a three way trade that I made previously in this thread. We could get our guy and benefit from such a trade. BTW: I STILL believe that Ren and Stimpy get the deal done with Kirk.

 

[Stymietee]

Just how much of a void would a Kirk Cousins departure create in D.C.? Over the past two seasons, only Tom Brady and reigning NFL MVP Matt Ryan have posted a better Total QBR (min. 500 attempts)

Just figured i would share. Rather decent company for not being a franchise QB.

Means NOTHING....because of something that we can all agree to.....Kirk has numbers, no doubt about that!

 

[Sharkinva]

OK, So one at a time:

While I appreciate your perspective that Kirk is a step or two below the elites in the league, we will have to agree to disagree on that one. For me he's 12 - 15 in the league because of the combination of how he plays and the system that fits his style. The caveat being that right now he's the best that we have at the position. No I'll not name those that I believe to be ahead of him, to me it's obvious, but you of course won't agree, so there's that.

Wanting better is now a fault? Really?? Maybe we should have stuck with Colt McCoy, Tyler Polumbus, Kia Forbath and Tanard Jackson as starters. Let us not forget, if we're honest, before Gruden arrived Kirk was himself Matt Cassell redux. All we need is a fit or better fit than Kirk as detailed and we don't miss a beat.

In terms of availability and cost, please note the reference to a three way trade that I made previously in this thread. We could get our guy and benefit from such a trade. BTW: I STILL believe that Ren and Stimpy get the deal done with Kirk.

I never said there was anything wrong with wanting better. But there is a problem with chasing elite and walking away from pretty good in the process.

And again I freely admit there are QBs better than Kirk, and a few that MIGHT be better based on their limited amount of work. But are they available, and at what cost?

 

[Stymietee]

I never said there was anything wrong with wanting better. But there is a problem with chasing elite and walking away from pretty good in the process.

And again I freely admit there are QBs better than Kirk, and a few that MIGHT be better based on their limited amount of work. But are they available, and at what cost?

Then we agree with wanting better, YOU just see it as chasing elite and I don't. The comparison on this team in terms of position specialist would be Kia Forbath. Kia was the best that we have had for a long time as well. He even broke long held records. When I suggested that we upgrade the position, do you remember the shit that I got.........until........we got better? Well, go ahead ask anyone here if they want kicker Kia, as he was affectionately known, back here again.

Availability and cost has already been addressed in this thread by me. In it, it involves a three way trade that costs us zero draft picks, zero dollars, and nets us a couple of extra picks maybe more. Bonus will be an opportunity to do what we should have done with Kirk. Sign the new guy long term much cheaply than what it would cost to sign Kirk. I cannot emphasize this enough though. Laurel and Hardy will get a new contract with Cousins.

 

[Sportster 72]

Means NOTHING....because of something that we can all agree to.....Kirk has numbers, no doubt about that!

I am literally LMAO off because I was going to make a "joke" post about how it means nothing because QBR, yardage, completion percentage etc. etc mean nothing .... they are just numbers. ROFL!!! Thank you Sty for supporting my belief in you folks.

Shark you type until you have no fingers left and some people will always find a reason he isn't good enough while in the same breath tell you that some college guy is more accurate that has never thrown for as high a completion percentage as the person they want to replace.

 

[Sharkinva]

I am literally LMAO off because I was going to make a "joke" post about how it means nothing because QBR, yardage, completion percentage etc. etc mean nothing .... they are just numbers. ROFL!!! Thank you Sty for supporting my belief in you folks.

Shark you type until you have no fingers left and some people will always find a reason he isn't good enough while in the same breath tell you that some college guy is more accurate that has never thrown for as high a completion percentage as the person they want to replace.

IM seriously thinking Sty went

Seri.. find me a backup QB who has had slightly better stats as a pocket passer than Cousins in a limited amount of work.

Seri said AJ McCarron

And thus AJ became the savior that would get us away from Cousins.

 

[Sportster 72]

LOL! On a serious note I have read a few people think he might be able to play. Comparing him after 119 passes is kind of silly though.

 

[Stymietee]

I am literally LMAO off because I was going to make a "joke" post about how it means nothing because QBR, yardage, completion percentage etc. etc mean nothing .... they are just numbers. ROFL!!! Thank you Sty for supporting my belief in you folks.

Shark you type until you have no fingers left and some people will always find a reason he isn't good enough while in the same breath tell you that some college guy is more accurate that has never thrown for as high a completion percentage as the person they want to replace.

What's the best metric in all of sports?..........If you guessed win and losses....,you win! The point I was making btw in context to our conversation was that Kirk had numbers, I said exactly that!! I guess it's just too easy to jump in on part of a conversation instead of reading anything that preceded it.

 

[Stymietee]

LOL! On a serious note I have read a few people think he might be able to play. Comparing him after 119 passes is kind of silly though.

We did the same thing for Kirk....short memory??

 

[Stymietee]

Now if you and @Shark really want to go down the numbers as a metric road here's the best one in the NFL:


Quarterback Win/Loss Records | The Football Database
www.footballdb.com › Statistics

I still say Kirk is a pretty good QB, we can do better, and that doesn't have to be elite, just better. Take note that this comparison says NOTHING about having a better defense, running game or anything else that you want to use as an excuse.

 

[Sportster 72]

Sonny Jurgensen wasn't worthy of the HOF??