No criminal charges for Deshaun Watson

[cincygrad]

Does it really matter? Any team would be in the same situation. The only thing that matters from a football aspect is how soon does he get back. 1/3 of the league wanted him while in legal trouble. If no legal trouble we are talking 80-90% of the NFL going after him. Gonna take some time for all this to go away but if they win and progress it could be worth it. I’ve waited for a QB my entire life, this isn’t the way I pictured it. But if the win, it will matter to the fans and everyone will forget. Big Ben won two SB’s and “allegedly raped a girl” and he will get a statue. I’m never gonna root for Watson the person, no way. I will root for guys like Nick Chubb and Denzel Ward.

After reading the Times story, I keep thinking about Watson's mental state. From the dates they use in that story, this pattern of behavior is a recent trend. Unless I'm mistaken, Watson had a squeaky clean image from his days at Clemson and his early seasons with Houston. Unless I'm mistaken, there haven't been a bunch of women from his college days or earlier life running to the papers to tell dirty stories about him. The specifics of what he was interested in reek of a guy that might have some psychological baggage or hell, maybe he banged his head. At the very least you could say it is an odd way to deal with the stressors of being an all-pro type athlete. All of this is to say, I"m not convinced that he'll ever be the QB that he was in his Houston days.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Does it really matter? Any team would be in the same situation. The only thing that matters from a football aspect is how soon does he get back. 1/3 of the league wanted him while in legal trouble. If no legal trouble we are talking 80-90% of the NFL going after him. Gonna take some time for all this to go away but if they win and progress it could be worth it. I’ve waited for a QB my entire life, this isn’t the way I pictured it. But if the win, it will matter to the fans and everyone will forget. Big Ben won two SB’s and “allegedly raped a girl” and he will get a statue. I’m never gonna root for Watson the person, no way. I will root for guys like Nick Chubb and Denzel Ward.

90%? There's 32 teams in the NFL, and I can bet you that at least 10-12 of them are pretty darn happy with their QB. So maybe 50%-60% would be a much closer actuality. Still more than half, I would agree...but I don't think it's 80-90%. I mean, you can start listing off teams that aren't trading their QB pretty quickly: Brady, Rodgers, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Stafford, Mahomes, Prescot, Jackson, Mac Jones - then you have guys like Wilson who were actually traded for....

Also - how much of this was actually known to other teams? We don't know. It's widely assumed that the Browns knew, and the NFL knew - but how much of this recent news did they actually know? (and that's an honest question - because I haven't followed all of the most recent news that broke). It wouldn't be shocking if the Texans and even the NFL decided to keep some of that news 'in house' hoping that the original 22 would be as bad as it gets. Maybe all of the other teams knew what was going on - and maybe that's why they didn't complete the trade for him, or weren't willing to pay him like the Browns were because of the known issues? Maybe the Browns ownership was the only organization willing to completely sell its soul for the sake of landing a top tier QB with massive baggage in tow. So, many teams may have been interested, but found that the baggage was likely too much - in the end, only 2-3 teams were really in the running with all others not comfortable with the price to pay (both literally, and potentially with baggage/suspension/unknowns).

As for Ben - he settled out of court and was never criminally, or civilly, charged. Watson would have been extremely smart to have gone the same route, but his nonsensical NDA derailed that. For all the crap that I have given Ben, he was accused, settled, and showed no actual pattern. Thanks to the newest information, it is clear there is a very concerning pattern with Watson, and it's not a far logical leap to see something happened. You have to wonder why a guy is hiring so many masseurs, along with non-licensed massage therapist, untrained massage therapist, at a rate of a new girl once a week (nearly), carrying around an NDA that (from my reading/understanding) he only would then threaten them with if he didn't get what he wanted at the end, or felt the woman would be an 'issue'...

No, I don't think this is like Ben outside of a girl accusing a guy - In one case it was 1/2 accusations with no real pattern, or history an zero issues afterwards. In another case it is now up to 24, with a clear pattern that raises multiple red flags. This is coming from a guy who has ragged on Ben A LOT over the years for those, alleged, acts...and as a guy who graduated from a Rival MAC school - so I've seen Ben for a long time, and been hating on him for a long, long time...but I don't really think this is an apt comparison, IMO.

Quite honestly - I'm not sure the league has really seen something like this just because of the scale and magnitude of the number of women involved.

 

[dtgold88]

And yet…

Some of those women who are not suing Watson and didn’t file a complaint against him, told the New York Times that Watson was looking for sex during his massage appointments.​

Those are ones who aren’t looking to get a lot of money.

If nothing else, he treated massage therapists as if they were prostitutes.

No disagreement the guy has issues and needs help.

 

[dtgold88]

Speculation!

It's fact...NO, Atlanta and Carolina made offers (might be missing one) for sure. 3 is multiple.

 

[dtgold88]

How do you know they would've accepted them? It's your opinion. It's not a FACT. So stop claiming it as such you liar.

Because teams were not allowed to meet with Watson unless they presented an offer that was acceptable to Houston.

you are trying way too hard here. And failing.

 

[Shanemansj13]

90%? There's 32 teams in the NFL, and I can bet you that at least 10-12 of them are pretty darn happy with their QB. So maybe 50%-60% would be a much closer actuality. Still more than half, I would agree...but I don't think it's 80-90%. I mean, you can start listing off teams that aren't trading their QB pretty quickly: Brady, Rodgers, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Stafford, Mahomes, Prescot, Jackson, Mac Jones - then you have guys like Wilson who were actually traded for....

Also - how much of this was actually known to other teams? We don't know. It's widely assumed that the Browns knew, and the NFL knew - but how much of this recent news did they actually know? (and that's an honest question - because I haven't followed all of the most recent news that broke). It wouldn't be shocking if the Texans and even the NFL decided to keep some of that news 'in house' hoping that the original 22 would be as bad as it gets. Maybe all of the other teams knew what was going on - and maybe that's why they didn't complete the trade for him, or weren't willing to pay him like the Browns were because of the known issues? Maybe the Browns ownership was the only organization willing to completely sell its soul for the sake of landing a top tier QB with massive baggage in tow. So, many teams may have been interested, but found that the baggage was likely too much - in the end, only 2-3 teams were really in the running with all others not comfortable with the price to pay (both literally, and potentially with baggage/suspension/unknowns).

As for Ben - he settled out of court and was never criminally, or civilly, charged. Watson would have been extremely smart to have gone the same route, but his nonsensical NDA derailed that. For all the crap that I have given Ben, he was accused, settled, and showed no actual pattern. Thanks to the newest information, it is clear there is a very concerning pattern with Watson, and it's not a far logical leap to see something happened. You have to wonder why a guy is hiring so many masseurs, along with non-licensed massage therapist, untrained massage therapist, at a rate of a new girl once a week (nearly), carrying around an NDA that (from my reading/understanding) he only would then threaten them with if he didn't get what he wanted at the end, or felt the woman would be an 'issue'...

No, I don't think this is like Ben outside of a girl accusing a guy - In one case it was 1/2 accusations with no real pattern, or history an zero issues afterwards. In another case it is now up to 24, with a clear pattern that raises multiple red flags. This is coming from a guy who has ragged on Ben A LOT over the years for those, alleged, acts...and as a guy who graduated from a Rival MAC school - so I've seen Ben for a long time, and been hating on him for a long, long time...but I don't really think this is an apt comparison, IMO.

Quite honestly - I'm not sure the league has really seen something like this just because of the scale and magnitude of the number of women involved.

Fair enough. Sure, rookies or 2nd year players are great but he is an immediate upgrade. Brady didn't comeback at the time so TB would have been interested. Only a handful of QB's that are better. Sure, not 80% but closer to 80 than 50%. Franchise QB's are easily the most valuable asset in this league, teams will sell their soul...like the Browns.

For what the Browns already knew...only they can tell us. From Browns insider sources all the recent news is not new to them. Just a slow process bringing it out to the public. If 10 teams were willing to go after him without criminal charges being settled yet...that says a lot actually. It says they were willing to do anything they could to upgrade. Like you said, they probably knew quite a bit to know this would not criminal in the long run.
From what I hear Watson did try to settle outside of the court but Buzbee didn't want that but who knows, a lot of rumors either way. So I don't think that wasn't an option at some point.
The fact is if the Browns didn't get him, some other teams of the 10 (then eventually narrowed to 3-4) would be dealing with this.

 

[dtgold88]

Fair enough. Sure, rookies or 2nd year players are great but he is an immediate upgrade. Brady didn't comeback at the time so TB would have been interested. Only a handful of QB's that are better. Sure, not 80% but closer to 80 than 50%. Franchise QB's are easily the most valuable asset in this league, teams will sell their soul...like the Browns.

For what the Browns already knew...only they can tell us. From Browns insider sources all the recent news is not new to them. Just a slow process bringing it out to the public. If 10 teams were willing to go after him without criminal charges being settled yet...that says a lot actually. It says they were willing to do anything they could to upgrade. Like you said, they probably knew quite a bit to know this would not criminal in the long run.
From what I hear Watson did try to settle outside of the court but Buzbee didn't want that but who knows, a lot of rumors either way. So I don't think that wasn't an option at some point.
The fact is if the Browns didn't get him, some other teams of the 10 (then eventually narrowed to 3-4) would be dealing with this.

Yes, the idea so many say the Browns Fd this up is a little off base as no matter which team got him the mess is likely the same.

 

[jarntt]

what has been established is you can or wont own up to the notion the low base in year 1 of a large deal is common for the Browns and many teams.

So what have ya got that states the Browns have done anything but cooperate with the NFL in their investigation and have tried "aiding Watson to escape the full measure of punishment due him."

Last time I'm trying. Again, Watson's case is very different than every other contract. First we need to establish that he is likely to be suspended in year 1 and second we need to establish that the Browns have $40M in cap space this year. Those are the two key aspects of why what you are saying is not correct and what makes it different from what is "common for the Browns and many teams". The Browns do not need to have a low year one base salary for him because unlike most teams they have zero cap issue this year so there is almost zero benefit to the team of his very low year one salary.

Why do teams do this in most cases? To help their cap, correct? Well, if Watson is suspended for half a season that money never hits Cleveland's cap, correct? So if he were getting $30M base salary in year 1, instead of $1M, and was suspended for half the year the Browns would not only save themselves from paying out and additional $14M but that money would also never hit their cap. So it actually would benefit the Browns to have a much higher base salary for Watson in year 1. $30M is just to use an example. Make it $20M or $10M if it makes you feel more comfortable. Using other players as your proof is in fact not proof because of the two reasons I pointed out. When Garrett was signed there was uncertainty about a future QB contract so the Browns needed to be aware of cap space and while a douche himself who might have been viewed as a suspension risk it wasn't an almost guarantee like with Watson. When Njoku was signed he was not viewed as a player almost definitely about to be suspended.

So each dollar that the Browns give Watson as a base salary in 2022 that ends up being for the portion of the season that he is suspended saves the Browns money and cap space. So the higher the salary the better. In my scenario with a half year suspension (I'm using a 16 game season because it makes the math easier) with Watson's current base salary he would save the Browns $500K. Using a $30M salary he would save the Browns $15M. So since the low base is clearly not helping the Browns it must have been done to help Watson. I'll take it a step further and say he wasn't coming to the Browns without this type of structure and they caved worse than the French in WWII on all fronts and have no Charles De Gaulle to rescue them

 

[jarntt]

Do you think 26 women out of a hundred are typically conniving liars?

Yeah, but that's besides the point...

 

[jarntt]

I'd feel the same way. Ownership may have pulled an all time Cleveland on Cleveland. It wasn't pretty when the Browns kissed this clown right square in the Ass with the contract and most certainly the structure of the contract. Watson had to be blown away by the Browns desire for his services and that's exactly what the Browns brass did.

Well, if the masseuses are to be believed that's exactly where he prefers to be kissed and pretty much what he tried to force them to do!

 

[dtgold88]

Last time I'm trying. Again, Watson's case is very different than every other contract. First we need to establish that he is likely to be suspended in year 1 and second we need to establish that the Browns have $40M in cap space this year. Those are the two key aspects of why what you are saying is not correct and what makes it different from what is "common for the Browns and many teams". The Browns do not need to have a low year one base salary for him because unlike most teams they have zero cap issue this year so there is almost zero benefit to the team of his very low year one salary.

Why do teams do this in most cases? To help their cap, correct? Well, if Watson is suspended for half a season that money never hits Cleveland's cap, correct? So if he were getting $30M base salary in year 1, instead of $1M, and was suspended for half the year the Browns would not only save themselves from paying out and additional $14M but that money would also never hit their cap. So it actually would benefit the Browns to have a much higher base salary for Watson in year 1. $30M is just to use an example. Make it $20M or $10M if it makes you feel more comfortable. Using other players as your proof is in fact not proof because of the two reasons I pointed out. When Garrett was signed there was uncertainty about a future QB contract so the Browns needed to be aware of cap space and while a douche himself who might have been viewed as a suspension risk it wasn't an almost guarantee like with Watson. When Njoku was signed he was not viewed as a player almost definitely about to be suspended.

So each dollar that the Browns give Watson as a base salary in 2022 that ends up being for the portion of the season that he is suspended saves the Browns money and cap space. So the higher the salary the better. In my scenario with a half year suspension (I'm using a 16 game season because it makes the math easier) with Watson's current base salary he would save the Browns $500K. Using a $30M salary he would save the Browns $15M. So since the low base is clearly not helping the Browns it must have been done to help Watson. I'll take it a step further and say he wasn't coming to the Browns without this type of structure and they caved worse than the French in WWII on all fronts and have no Charles De Gaulle to rescue them

I guess I'll try one more time, too......as you somewhat alluded, the Browns gave Garrett the same low base for 2022 knowing they had a lot of cap space this year, as well. Are they expecting he'll beat another QB over the head and get suspended, too? In addition, for Ward's extension that begins in 2023, they also restructured his 2022 base to the exact same $1.035 mil. Did the same for Njoku after he signed his recent extension. FYI, the QB situation was more clear when ward and Njoku signed extensions (more clear than when garrett signed, at least)

Almost like it has nothing to do with a looming suspension, eh?

 

[dtgold88]

First extensive article I've seen in support of Watson. Cannot speak to the legalities if all true (such as max award is upper 5 figures even if they win) but interesting......

Tony Buzbee’s smear campaign against Deshaun Watson is becoming increasingly desperate and transparent

Recent events compel me to again write in defense of Deshaun Watson and to call for a lot more critical thinking about the recent blast of obviously coordinated propaganda from corporate media on this—including last weekend’s HBO “Real Sports” feature, […]

www.clevelandfrowns.com

 

[jarntt]

I guess I'll try one more time, too......as you somewhat alluded, the Browns gave Garrett the same low base for 2022 knowing they had a lot of cap space this year, as well. Are they expecting he'll beat another QB over the head and get suspended, too? In addition, for Ward's extension that begins in 2023, they also restructured his 2022 base to the exact same $1.035 mil. Did the same for Njoku after he signed his recent extension. FYI, the QB situation was more clear when ward and Njoku signed extensions (more clear than when garrett signed, at least)

Almost like it has nothing to do with a looming suspension, eh?

Exactly my point. There was no reason to not have a low year 1 salary with any of those guys because they weren't likely to get suspended so Cleveland would have incurred all of their cap hit either way (it's just a matter of which year it would be in) and thus the normal practice of low year one cap hits was followed. With Watson, he will be suspended, so the incentive for the team would have been to not do the same as with everyone else because he will be suspended and they will get back that portion of his salary to spend elsewhere. His suspension is exactly why it would benefit Cle to have a big year one base salary

 

[fastforward]

Charles de Gaulle didn't rescue France or anyone else during WWII.

 

[dtgold88]

Exactly my point. There was no reason to not have a low year 1 salary with any of those guys because they weren't likely to get suspended so Cleveland would have incurred all of their cap hit either way (it's just a matter of which year it would be in) and thus the normal practice of low year one cap hits was followed. With Watson, he will be suspended, so the incentive for the team would have been to not do the same as with everyone else because he will be suspended and they will get back that portion of his salary to spend elsewhere. His suspension is exactly why it would benefit Cle to have a big year one base salary

But Njoku deal came AFTER the Watson deal (think Ward did, too) and yet with all this cap room they still gave them the $1.035 mil base. Hell, at time he got his deal it seemed like it may have been just as likely this dragged on and he could be suspended in 2023.

sorry, but try as you might they have their reasons for minimum deals in year 1 of large extensions. It's not because Watson might be suspended. Not taking back any of his signing bonus if suspended (assuming that's not the norm)? Seems that is true.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Yes, the idea so many say the Browns Fd this up is a little off base as no matter which team got him the mess is likely the same.

Yes, but the Browns are the one that landed him. Therefore, it's the Browns that fucked up. It could have been the ATL, or SF, or Sea...or any number of other teams, yes....but the "Fuck up" was ultimately going to land on whoever paid the most to acquire him - and that distinction goes to the Browns....for better or worse.

 

[dtgold88]

Yes, but the Browns are the one that landed him. Therefore, it's the Browns that fucked up. It could have been the ATL, or SF, or Sea...or any number of other teams, yes....but the "Fuck up" was ultimately going to land on whoever paid the most to acquire him - and that distinction goes to the Browns....for better or worse.

OK, but if it's "for better" then it isn't exactly a screw up is it?

 

[Shanemansj13]

Yes, but the Browns are the one that landed him. Therefore, it's the Browns that fucked up. It could have been the ATL, or SF, or Sea...or any number of other teams, yes....but the "Fuck up" was ultimately going to land on whoever paid the most to acquire him - and that distinction goes to the Browns....for better or worse.

How don't know how you consider it a "fuck up". Every single team should have expected a suspension. He is 27 years old, not in his mid 30's. Unless he is banned from the league this is TBD.

 

[Shanemansj13]

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Desean Watson lawyer see some inconsistencies. LOL