NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

[Wamu]

That's the point. The Seahawks need to tank this season so they can get a better QB in the next draft. Tanking will be a lot easier to achieve with Drew Lock than with an actual competent QB like Jimmy G.

Very true. If DL wins the starting job he might be so bad he gets benched.

 

[Black Adam]

Very true. If DL wins the starting job he might be so bad he gets benched.

won't get benched if the Seahags' brain trust WANTS losses...

so, who's in next offseason's QB class? gotta look forward to the draft...

 

[DJ Fieri]

 

[WiggyRuss]

What I’m saying is that the Indians don’t make this move. There isn’t “a time” to make this move for them. Even new ownership isn’t going to change this dynamic or the business model. What kind of tv money does the Indians contract generate? The big spenders are big spenders not based on gate or concessions or stuff like that. It’s because of massive tv deals. Cleveland is always going to be a smaller TV market and you have multiple franchises in a relatively small geographic region with the Reds Indians and Pirates. It’s taking an already meh area for tv money and bow allegiance is split between 3 franchises. Even with new owners, the Indians will be bottom 3rd in the league for payroll. New owners should keep them from being bottom 3-5 in payroll though. Long story short, a guy like Soto who is going to sign for like $40 million a year isn’t going to be an add for them. They can’t afford to send out 6-7-8 prospects to make this happen either for them to keep their business model intact.

A. It is not going to take 8 prospects

B. They have made similar deals in the past. They dealt 2 conseuctive first round picks for 2 years of Ubaldo Jimenez. They dealt a plethora of big time prospects for 2 years of Miller.

The Indians HAVE dealt multiple highly rated prospects for win now guys with more than 1 year of control and then just let them walk.

 

[WiggyRuss]

C. they HAVE to do something about the 40 man roster crunch- whether thats Soto - or some other trade- they are going to leave some guys open to the Rule 5 draft that are gonna get snagged for nothing if they dont clean it up soon. Puttin those prospects together to get someone makes a ton of sense in that scenario.

In the middle infield alone the Guardians have Gimenez, Rosario, Arias, Freeman, Rocchio- and then also Tena and Martinez. the depth is bonkers

8 of the top 100 prospects- most in the majors.

a 40 man roster crunch

either now- or in the offseason tehy are going to trade prospects for a win now guy or two- like they have done in the past. It may not be THIS year because this team is overachiecing in many ways and not a "true" contender--- but it is still possible.

I think itll happen this winter.

 

[Shanemansj13]

What I’m saying is that the Indians don’t make this move. There isn’t “a time” to make this move for them. Even new ownership isn’t going to change this dynamic or the business model. What kind of tv money does the Indians contract generate? The big spenders are big spenders not based on gate or concessions or stuff like that. It’s because of massive tv deals. Cleveland is always going to be a smaller TV market and you have multiple franchises in a relatively small geographic region with the Reds Indians and Pirates. It’s taking an already meh area for tv money and bow allegiance is split between 3 franchises. Even with new owners, the Indians will be bottom 3rd in the league for payroll. New owners should keep them from being bottom 3-5 in payroll though. Long story short, a guy like Soto who is going to sign for like $40 million a year isn’t going to be an add for them. They can’t afford to send out 6-7-8 prospects to make this happen either for them to keep their business model intact.

Agree, the tv market will never change considerably but owners make all the difference in the world. Of course baseball is a different beast bc no floor or ceiling, having an owner that will spend is still incredibly important. Even with the small market, you have a chance. I'm not saying the Indians will be the Dodgers just an average spender or above that which is perfectly reasonable considering they have done it in the past. Do you realize they will basically an all-time low spending amount the next two years. We aren't talking average, we are talking bottom 3 this year and bottom of the barrel the next 2 seasons. To compare adding Soto and his $40M they would still not be close to an average spender, at least estimating at this point.
Not every prospect works out. They can start all these prospects, some won't workout and some they won't have space for.

Bottomline, I highly doubt they trade for them but if there is a time...this is the time. They likely get outbid by a team like the Dodgers who have a great farm system AND they will spend. Less about the tv market, more about not willing to spend. I saw it first hand with Gilbert, if he believes they are in position to win he will spend and then some. If he was a baseball owner, Gilbert would be up there with the top spenders regardless of tv market bc people watch when you have stars. The late 90's-early 00's the Indians sold out 455 straight games.

 

[Shanemansj13]

C. they HAVE to do something about the 40 man roster crunch- whether thats Soto - or some other trade- they are going to leave some guys open to the Rule 5 draft that are gonna get snagged for nothing if they dont clean it up soon. Puttin those prospects together to get someone makes a ton of sense in that scenario.

In the middle infield alone the Guardians have Gimenez, Rosario, Arias, Freeman, Rocchio- and then also Tena and Martinez. the depth is bonkers

8 of the top 100 prospects- most in the majors.

a 40 man roster crunch

either now- or in the offseason tehy are going to trade prospects for a win now guy or two- like they have done in the past. It may not be THIS year because this team is overachiecing in many ways and not a "true" contender--- but it is still possible.

I think itll happen this winter.

Yeah you could say they have too much depth or young guys that play the same position. They will have to make a deal eventually unless Gimenez is trade or fizzles out. That's just part of great farm systems, players have to go. Maybe it won't be a huge deal, a smaller deal, but it happens with every club with that caliber of players.

 

[fightinfunbags]

Agree, the tv market will never change considerably but owners make all the difference in the world. Of course baseball is a different beast bc no floor or ceiling, having an owner that will spend is still incredibly important. Even with the small market, you have a chance. I'm not saying the Indians will be the Dodgers just an average spender or above that which is perfectly reasonable considering they have done it in the past. Do you realize they will basically an all-time low spending amount the next two years. We aren't talking average, we are talking bottom 3 this year and bottom of the barrel the next 2 seasons. To compare adding Soto and his $40M they would still not be close to an average spender, at least estimating at this point.
Not every prospect works out. They can start all these prospects, some won't workout and some they won't have space for.

Bottomline, I highly doubt they trade for them but if there is a time...this is the time. They likely get outbid by a team like the Dodgers who have a great farm system AND they will spend. Less about the tv market, more about not willing to spend. I saw it first hand with Gilbert, if he believes they are in position to win he will spend and then some. If he was a baseball owner, Gilbert would be up there with the top spenders regardless of tv market bc people watch when you have stars. The late 90's-early 00's the Indians sold out 455 straight games.

Cavs are a different animal. No NBA team in Pittsburgh or Cincinnati.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Cavs are a different animal. No NBA team in Pittsburgh or Cincinnati.

It doesn't matter. Stars/spending increase the market and bring fans to the game. Simple as that. An owner that won't spend is the ultimate crutch for a franchise. Cleveland can get to average but with these low budget teams every real fan knows nothing will come of it even with the success they've had with the model. When they were winning the 90's-early 00's were top 10 spenders but even if they get to average it will go a long way in this league with the way they develop the farm system. Market is not holding them back, I promise.

 

[dtgold88]

That's the point. The Seahawks need to tank this season so they can get a better QB in the next draft. Tanking will be a lot easier to achieve with Drew Lock than with an actual competent QB like Jimmy G.

As someone who has seen both I prefer 1-3 wins (yeah, I've seen 0...don't need that) than, say, 6-7.

 

[dtgold88]

A. It is not going to take 8 prospects

B. They have made similar deals in the past. They dealt 2 conseuctive first round picks for 2 years of Ubaldo Jimenez. They dealt a plethora of big time prospects for 2 years of Miller.

The Indians HAVE dealt multiple highly rated prospects for win now guys with more than 1 year of control and then just let them walk.

Jiminez and Miller not on Soto level but agree a case could be made to do it. Hell we could add the salary of what Soto turned down and still not be a ML avg. in payroll. Don't need to spend like NY or LA. If they will just spend lge avg. there's at least a case to be made to make this deal.....even though I wouldn't (I'd prefer the money be spent elsewhere on more players).

 

[Shanemansj13]

That's the point. The Seahawks need to tank this season so they can get a better QB in the next draft. Tanking will be a lot easier to achieve with Drew Lock than with an actual competent QB like Jimmy G.

Going to be a couple teams fighting for that #1 spot but the QB class SHOULD be a hell of a lot better, we think lol

Falcons, Giants, Lions, Texans all are gonna be pretty bad but what Seattle has going for them is they might have the worst QB combo in the league. That's good spot to get Young, Stroud or whoever vaults up.

 

[shopson67]

Seattle needs to call SF about Jimmy G.

Geno and Drew suck.

Maybe sucking is the plan though?

 

[Tai Chi≈Surfing]

Anyone interested in checking out the new Jordan Peele film..."Nope" ?
If so, let me/us know what you think.

It opens tomorrow....but I'm gonna wait to watch until it goes to a streaming service.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Jiminez and Miller not on Soto level but agree a case could be made to do it. Hell we could add the salary of what Soto turned down and still not be a ML avg. in payroll. Don't need to spend like NY or LA. If they will just spend lge avg. there's at least a case to be made to make this deal.....even though I wouldn't (I'd prefer the money be spent elsewhere on more players).

Yep they won't even be average with his huge salary, pretty crazy. Like I said, I don't see it happening but if there was a time it would be now with all that young talent, some could say too much like Wiggy mentioned up the middle. Not enough spots for all those guys. In the late 90's they were 10 spenders, a little different nowadays but I would LOVE for them to be average spenders. I actually dream about it lol

 

[dtgold88]

Agree, the tv market will never change considerably but owners make all the difference in the world. Of course baseball is a different beast bc no floor or ceiling, having an owner that will spend is still incredibly important. Even with the small market, you have a chance. I'm not saying the Indians will be the Dodgers just an average spender or above that which is perfectly reasonable considering they have done it in the past. Do you realize they will basically an all-time low spending amount the next two years. We aren't talking average, we are talking bottom 3 this year and bottom of the barrel the next 2 seasons. To compare adding Soto and his $40M they would still not be close to an average spender, at least estimating at this point.
Not every prospect works out. They can start all these prospects, some won't workout and some they won't have space for.

Bottomline, I highly doubt they trade for them but if there is a time...this is the time. They likely get outbid by a team like the Dodgers who have a great farm system AND they will spend. Less about the tv market, more about not willing to spend. I saw it first hand with Gilbert, if he believes they are in position to win he will spend and then some. If he was a baseball owner, Gilbert would be up there with the top spenders regardless of tv market bc people watch when you have stars. The late 90's-early 00's the Indians sold out 455 straight games.

Yes, this is hyperbole, but it's criminal what the Dolans did with a payroll with a team that could compete and have a legit shot at a WS appearance.

as you said, no need to be NY or LA...but my God can we keep up with Cinci, MN or Milwaukee when we can be a contender?

The only time this regime followed up a solid season and showed a pulse in the offseason attendance spiked nearly 30% (EE signing). As it stands, why should fans spend extra to be fans when the owner shows you don't have to?

 

[fightinfunbags]

Anyone interested in checking out the new Jordan Peele film..."Nope" ?
If so, let me/us know what you think.

It opens tomorrow....but I'm gonna wait to watch until it goes to a streaming service.

That movie has such a great title and marketing campaign, haha.

 

[shopson67]

Anyone interested in checking out the new Jordan Peele film..."Nope" ?
If so, let me/us know what you think.

It opens tomorrow....but I'm gonna wait to watch until it goes to a streaming service.

Nope, lol.

 

[dtgold88]

Cavs are a different animal. No NBA team in Pittsburgh or Cincinnati.

Might have to do with the different CBAs but doubt having other teams around would matter to Gilbert. He'd still have an obscene will to win and would spend as he's, what, #2 in net worth of all the owners?

 

[Shanemansj13]

They always hype up his films. Most of them are pretty weird and some of them have been good but too much hype.

The film should be called, "Nah, no thanks"