NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

[DJ Fieri]

Not every WR has to be a deep threat to be productive, plain and simple. Jarvis has been productive for most of his career and he was never a deep threat. He is a great route runner. DPJ, Grant and Swartz are deep threats. Plus Cooper can be a nice RZ guy for Watson.

Guess what Michael Thomas' YPC were his entire career?
16 - 12.4
17 - 12.0
18 - 11.2
19 - 11.6

Sure, but it's not always easy to change from a deep threat to a possession guy, especially when you consider Cooper's struggles with the fumbles.

Shane, I'm not saying it was a bad pickup....just that he's probably on the decline, not that he CAN'T still be productive.

And Thomas was a bizarre comparison since he's a possession guy, not a speedster.

 

[DJ Fieri]

I wonder if the Chiefs might decide to run more with CEH, Jones, and Gore....

 

[trojanfan12]

He is a great route runner.

I'd rather have this in a receiver than speed. A great route runner can always create the separation they need to be productive. They also tend to be better at catching contested passes.

Some of the greatest receivers in NFL history (including Jerry Rice) weren't exactly "speed guys". But they were pretty much all great route runners.

 

[Black Adam]

I wonder if the Chiefs might decide to run more with CEH, Jones, and Gore....

I think Gore will have a chance to break out this season. CEH has been too injury prone for me to get my hopes up...

 

[Black Adam]

I'd rather have this in a receiver than speed. A great route runner can always create the separation they need to be productive. They also tend to be better at catching contested passes.

Some of the greatest receivers in NFL history (including Jerry Rice) weren't exactly "speed guys". But they were pretty much all great route runners.

To me speed definitely matters because you definitely have to stretch a defense, but it doesn't help if your guy has hands of stone...

 

[trojanfan12]

I'm not the biggest advocate of winning record for a QB because there are 11 starters on offense and 11 on defense.

It's how they're measured though.

But, the only losing season Houston had with Watson leading their offense? 2020 when they went 4-12. He went 3-3 as a rookie. 11-5 in 2018 and 10-5 in 2019.

28-25 and that one bad season really skews that %.

Russell Westbrook has a winning record for his career too. No one is questioning his talent. But, other than going to the Browns, what has he done to be ranked that high?

 

[Shanemansj13]

and he's damn near as fast as Tyreek. I ain't worried...

Speed has nothing to do with it lol. Not having Tyreek is definitely a huge stepdown for their WR corp, having to double Hill and Kelce was a huge disadvantage for defenses. Patty is still a top QB but I think some are underestimating the loss of Hill. He was most dynamic weapon in the NFL the last couple years, plain and simple. MVS, Juju and Hardman are fine but probably towards middle of the pack at best for the AFC. Add in Kelce they are obviously higher

 

[DJ Fieri]

It's how they're measured though.



Russell Westbrook has a winning record for his career too. No one is questioning his talent. But, other than going to the Browns, what has he done to be ranked that high?

Watson is just 26. He has another 8-10 years while RW is near the end.

And it's 2 different sports.

 

[Black Adam]

Speed has nothing to do with it lol. Not having Tyreek is definitely a huge stepdown for their WR corp, having to double Hill and Kelce was a huge disadvantage for defenses. Patty is still a top QB but I think some are underestimating the loss of Hill. He was most dynamic weapon in the NFL the last couple years, plain and simple. MVS, Juju and Hardman are fine but probably towards middle of the pack at best for the AFC. Add in Kelce they are obviously higher

Big step down no doubt. "Huge step down"? I disagree. I said before and will say it again. Hill is more hurt without Mahomes than the other way around...

And let's not forget pieces are still being added. I dunno if some of you guys are wishful thinking or what...

 

[tlance]

Mahomes was very good last year but he certainly wasnt as good as he had been. And now he loses the biggest game breaking receiver in football. We shall see.

I get that Watson has not played for a while- but I think people are forgetting just how dynamic he is. All the receivers should play up for him.

He is going to be behind the best o-line he has ever had....the best complimentary running game he has ever had.....I cant wait to see Kareem Hunt catch balls out of the backfield.....probably the best tight end he has ever had. Crazy to think Njoku is still only 25 years old. Cooper is a very solid WR. Schwartz is one of the fastest players in the NFL- but they could still use another WR without a doubt since Idont want to rely on Peoples-Jones as a #2.

I cant wait to see how Watson and the passing game open up the running game even more. Chubb and Hunt are gonna feast.

Watson is a good get for the Browns.

But, no way you can say he is “more talented” than Mahomes.

He hasn’t produced better than Mahomes, he hasn’t played football in over a year AND he might be suspended for a large chunk of 2023.

Your ranking of the use 2 players is based on 2 things only:

1: homerism
2: you don’t like Mahomes

If we are being honest, there is a legit case for any of Rodgers, Allen or Burrow ahead of Mahomes, but not all 3. Only way all 3 can be ahead is if you are changing the way you evaluate/rank.

 

[tlance]

absolutely.

Kelce will still be a monster but 33 in the NFL is getting up there. Losing Hill is going to be a major loss to stretching the field. Mahomes had a stretch last year where over a 6 game stretch he throw either 1 or 0 TD passes 5 times.

He is still great- hence why I have him top 5- but he certainly didnt look like the force he had been--- and now take Hill out of there and I think itll be interesting to see how he reacts. You are putting a lot of trust in Smith-Shuster, Josh Gordon and Scantling.

Gordon, Scantling, Smith Shuster combined for 4 TD's last year. Now- Smith Shuster was hurt, Gordon hardly played becuase of his constant issues- and both should be better this year- if they are healthy and on the field- but there are more question marks then sure things. Amari Cooper would without a doubt be the Chiefs #1 WR.

This isn’t about supporting cast.

Watson’s supporting cast is clearly better than Mahomes’ this year.

This is about who is the best QB.

If supporting cast is factored in, Rodgers shouldn’t be number 1 and Brady shouldn’t be number 8.

 

[tlance]

And let's not forget Kelce.

Dude is showing no signs of slowing down.

Yeah, he actually showed many signs of slowing down last year.

 

[Black Adam]

Watson is a good get for the Browns.

But, no way you can say he is “more talented” than Mahomes.

He hasn’t produced better than Mahomes, he hasn’t played football in over a year AND he might be suspended for a large chunk of 2023.

Your ranking of the use 2 players is based on 2 things only:

1: homerism
2: you don’t like Mahomes

If we are being honest, there is a legit case for any of Rodgers, Allen or Burrow ahead of Mahomes, but not all 3. Only way all 3 can be ahead is if you are changing the way you evaluate/rank.

3: he hates the Chiefs because I back them...

 

[tlance]

3: he hates the Chiefs because I back them...

That was what I was getting at without explicitly saying it.

 

[Black Adam]

Yeah, he actually showed many signs of slowing down last year.

True, but I still think he's enough gas in the tank for another couple of runs...

 

[Black Adam]

That was what I was getting at without explicitly saying it.

Hey, that's what he gets for running his mouth in the 2019/2020 season when he thought the Chiefs COULDN'T win a title. Talk about a clown with egg on his face lol...

Enjoyed THAT Superbowl win even more than the first one... ESPECIALLY having to literally wait fifty years for it to happen again...

So as always, WiggityWack's wounds around here are self inflicted...

 

[DJ Fieri]

Yeah, he actually showed many signs of slowing down last year.

Really?

92 catches=1,125 yards, 12.2ypc, 9 TD's and a long of 69, 2016 was the last time he had a TD that long when he had an 80 yarder.

 

[Black Adam]

Really?

92 catches=1,125 yards, 12.2ypc, 9 TD's and a long of 69, 2016 was the last time he had a TD that long when he had an 80 yarder.

I think coach meant physically. Kelce is definitely gonna be productive...

 

[trojanfan12]

Watson is just 26. He has another 8-10 years while RW is near the end.

And it's 2 different sports.

Right...and for right now, Watson is the Westbrook of his sport.

I expect that will change in Cleveland...but he hasn't played yet.

 

[trojanfan12]

Really?

92 catches=1,125 yards, 12.2ypc, 9 TD's and a long of 69, 2016 was the last time he had a TD that long when he had an 80 yarder.

I think coach meant physically. Kelce is definitely gonna be productive...

Yep. Just because there is decline, doesn't mean he won't be productive. It just means he has to make some changes to how he does it.

Not all that different from an NBA player adding some ''old man'' to his game when his athleticism starts to fade.