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NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

dtgold88

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Part of this is the Hopkins injury changing the entire dynamic of their offense.
sure.....do you allow for this excuse for a QB who has never had a Hopkins at his disposal?

Never mind Colt McCoy had some solid to really good games without Hopkins. In fact, he played just as well as Murray did without him.
 

dtgold88

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My major issue is the demand for players to act in good faith without that expectation going both ways.
then your issue is with the CBA.....no need to make the factually incorrect statement a team is not honoring the contract when they release and don't pay a player (other than the guarantee).
 

dtgold88

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They did not. He was due 20 million dollars according to the terms of his contract and he was cut so that the Seahawks did not have to pay him what he was owed. Now he will make 5 million dollars instead of the $20 million he agreed to in the contract he signed.
are you just messing with us?
 

dtgold88

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Yes in that highly slanted dynamic that nearly all NFL fans agree is unevenly weighted and unfair.
cool....but that's different than you not understanding/accepting the contract is being honored per the terms of the contract whether we think it's fair or not.
 

fightinfunbags

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sure.....do you allow for this excuse for a QB who has never had a Hopkins at his disposal?

Never mind Colt McCoy had some solid to really good games without Hopkins. In fact, he played just as well as Murray did without him.
Nope. Because the offense going into the season is predicated on having a WR of his caliber dictating coverage matchups. So when he goes out you can’t redo OTAs and training camp and rework a new system.
 

thunderc

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I’m in no way confused. Since the beginning of this discussion I have focused on a slanted system that precludes the fact that these contracts are actually a two way street. I’ve argued against unfair characterizations of the character of Murray and others who exercise the only leverage they possess in this market. You guys are standing on the principles of legality. I’m saying that the system itself is slanted and unfair so while this may all be “legal” it doesn’t make the dynamic fair or just. Therefore, the lazy talk about “your name means something” “this is about integrity” is quite frankly bull shit.
are you too old to try to become a civil rights attorney? I’m sure the world needs another one. You make it sound like the system is so messed up that a court of law would strike it down. Seems like a worthy cause for you to pursue.
 

dtgold88

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You mean something that is fair for all parties?
OK...sure.

But even if not fair the contract is being honored by a team even if they release and don't pay the player....are you at least understanding this now?
 

fightinfunbags

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then your issue is with the CBA.....no need to make the factually incorrect statement a team is not honoring the contract when they release and don't pay a player (other than the guarantee).
My issue is with unfair conditions. You placing blame on the players themselves for that condition is misguided.
 

fightinfunbags

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cool....but that's different than you not understanding/accepting the contract is being honored per the terms of the contract whether we think it's fair or not.
If the conditions that create the contract are by their nature unfair then the contract itself is unfair.
 

dtgold88

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Yep but he still a top 10 qb. Don't pay him and starting over won't be fun. Solid qbs are hard enough to fine and he is better than solid
I'm not sure he's top 10 but no question a case can be made for that. He does have some leverage, too. In addition, maybe threatening to play baseball is something he can use (unless in his contract that he cannot play baseball).

My only issue with anyone in this thread is saying releasing a player and not paying him is not honoring a contract even though it's in the contract they can release and not pay the player (other than the guarantee).
 

fightinfunbags

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are you too old to try to become a civil rights attorney? I’m sure the world needs another one. You make it sound like the system is so messed up that a court of law would strike it down. Seems like a worthy cause for you to pursue.
I hate lawyers. Scored a 168 on my LSATs but worked two summers in my uncle’s firm and discovered it wasn’t for me.
 

fightinfunbags

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OK...sure.

But even if not fair the contract is being honored by a team even if they release and don't pay the player....are you at least understanding this now?
I’ve never struggled to understand that point. I’ll invoke an analogy. Legality and what’s just are two entirely different dynamics. This is tantamount to it being illegal to harbor a runaway slave because he or she was legally recognized as property of another. That didn’t make the dynamic just.
 

dtgold88

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Nope. Because the offense going into the season is predicated on having a WR of his caliber dictating coverage matchups. So when he goes out you can’t redo OTAs and training camp and rework a new system.
Yet in the 3 games McCoy played without Hopkins (weeks 9-11) he managed to go 68-90 for 684 yards, 3 TDs and 1 INT. He had 2 elite level performances of the 3 games. The other was bad.
 

dtgold88

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My issue is with unfair conditions. You placing blame on the players themselves for that condition is misguided.
That might be your issue , but you made the factually incorrect statement ( a number of times ) that the team is not honoring the contract by releasing the player and not paying out any money that has not been guaranteed when, in fact, the contract states the team may release the player and not pay out any money that has not been guaranteed.
 

dtgold88

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If the conditions that create the contract are by their nature unfair then the contract itself is unfair.
yet the players agreed to it. Weird.

do you think if the player is paid a ton of money for a season and has an awful year he should give the money back? How about if he gets hurt and cannot play at all?
 

fightinfunbags

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Yet in the 3 games McCoy played without Hopkins (weeks 9-11) he managed to go 68-90 for 684 yards, 3 TDs and 1 INT. He had 2 elite level performances of the 3 games. The other was bad.
That’s not in Murray’s control. They gave Connor far more carries than they gave him with Murray behind center. The criticism you’re putting forth seems like it should be directed at Kingsbury.
 

fightinfunbags

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That might be your issue , but you made the factually incorrect statement ( a number of times ) that the team is not honoring the contract by releasing the player and not paying out any money that has not been guaranteed when, in fact, the contract states the team may release the player and not pay out any money that has not been guaranteed.
They aren’t “honoring” the contract. They’re exercising a legal out that has been cooked into the contract so that they don’t have to honor the spirit of said contract. That’s a one way condition and one of numerous reasons as to why this system is slanted and unjust and why it’s not a reflection of a players character when they hold out while under contract.
 

dtgold88

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I’ve never struggled to understand that point. I’ll invoke an analogy. Legality and what’s just are two entirely different dynamics. This is tantamount to it being illegal to harbor a runaway slave because he or she was legally recognized as property of another. That didn’t make the dynamic just.
you've never struggled to understand it but said the team is not honoring the contract when they release and don't pay their player?

As to the other part, again, I really hope you are just messing with us.
 

dtgold88

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That’s not in Murray’s control. They gave Connor far more carries than they gave him with Murray behind center. The criticism you’re putting forth seems like it should be directed at Kingsbury.
you tried to say the offense/QB cannot function without Hopkins. You were wrong.
 

dtgold88

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They aren’t “honoring” the contract. They’re exercising a legal out that has been cooked into the contract so that they don’t have to honor the spirit of said contract. That’s a one way condition and one of numerous reasons as to why this system is slanted and unjust and why it’s not a reflection of a players character when they hold out while under contract.
Maybe we need another slave comparison because I'm sure the slaves had a CBA and a say in how it was constructed.

THAT was comedy gold.....and sad at the same time.

You can go ahead and get the last word. Hopefully this was a late April Fool's gig by you and, if so, ya got me.
 
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