NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

[bksballer89]

Guessing a lot of teams might take him over their RBs.

Facts

 

[bksballer89]

OK...can we also imagine Baker had Diggs all of last season or played in Stefanski's system since his rookie year?

No

 

[dtgold88]

Has anybody on this board been more critical of Ben Simmons game than I have? I’m a lot of things but I’m not a Fan Boi. You want to hear me get started on Jalen Hurts and what a mistake it was drafting that guy?

would add I never called you a fan boy. FYI, I can help you out with reading comp. if you ask based on that comment and the last to which I replied. Once you can acknowledge you have a problem we can get to work.

edit - gonna offer apologies as I did refer to you as a fan boy as said latter group when I meant to say former.

I don't consider you a fan boy though. Agenda Boy? Yes.

 

[dtgold88]

No

Me neither as I can never get the Freddie Fiasco out of my mind.

 

[trojanfan12]

I really couldn’t tell you. I’m not a Fan Boi so it doesn’t hurt my feelings when people criticize Philly fans. I know I don’t throw batteries or boo Santa Clause. Listen, you Fan Bois help make sports go round and are an important part of the dynamic of sports entertainment. But at the same time, with the exception of Shane, you Cleveland guys are mostly Fan Bois with little integrity in your stated sports opinion. Like I said, no big deal, but it is what it is.

The wall of text with several words in all caps that is likely going to result from this is on your hands.

 

[fightinfunbags]

All I see here is you not coming up with anything factual to refute even one thing I said. You even made a factually incorrect statement as year 3 for Baker was after his rookie season, right? Are you saying that was ignored?

If I address any of the PROJECTION and EXCUSE MAKING in your statements I will have granted it all tacit validity. It’s all invalid. Allen > Mayfield. When you have data that would dispute that we can advance the argument. But the outcome is already there and it’s blatantly clear that Allen > Mayfield. Period. End of that story. I’m not engaging in any of the nonsense that results in me clicking on a thread in this board to catch up on 5 pages I missed only to find its 4 pages of Cleveland stuff. You can have the last word.

 

[dtgold88]

If I address any of the PROJECTION and EXCUSE MAKING in your statements I will have granted it all tacit validity. It’s all invalid. Allen > Mayfield. When you have data that would dispute that we can advance the argument. But the outcome is already there and it’s blatantly clear that Allen > Mayfield. Period. End of that story. I’m not engaging in any of the nonsense that results in me clicking on a thread in this board to catch up on 5 pages I missed only to find its 4 pages of Cleveland stuff. You can have the last word.

If you could address/refute it with anything factual you would have. I stopped reading after that.

 

[WiggyRuss]

All I see here is:
- excuses being made for why Allen is better
- a desire to lean on a rookie year and essentially ignoring years after that.

It’s a Fan Boi opinion. Anyone who follows the NFL knows that there is a gap between Allen and Mayfield and Allen is clearly the better QB. You can talk the future and what may happen all you want. But based on the facts on the ground Allen > Mayfield.

Allen def. had better numbers.

 

[dtgold88]

Allen def. had better numbers.

No question. No doubt was better last season and guess would be he's better over time as well, but certainly there are some valid reasons to not think this is a lock like most are saying.

 

[tlance]

OK...can we also imagine Baker had Diggs all of last season or played in Stefanski's system since his rookie year?

Seriously?

Diggs was a high quality number 2 WR before he got to Buffalo. Now he is viewed as one of the very best in the league. Josh Allen deserves a good bit of credit for that.

Odell Beckham was one of the best WRs in football when he got dealt to Cleveland, now he is viewed as an overpaid liability.

While I am not going to put ODB’s struggles on Baker, if we are being honest about which offense has had more talent at the skill positions, the answer is Cleveland and it isn’t close.

 

[DJ]

He won't but Fields should start for the Bears. His ability to scramble and buy time means so much.....however, Dalton will be under pressure the first 3-4 weeks I believe. He better perform because this team should win with that defense.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Yeah. I don’t understand how some one can look at it any other way. Allen has turned himself into an MVP candidate. In this head to head comparison, I’d also point out that Cleveland has the better overall roster as well around Mayfield. Mayfield could complement one of the best running games in the league. Buffalo had no running game to speak of outside of Allen scrambles.

Imagine if the Bills had 1 of the browns back?

I'm not sure they are comparable, different system, different everything. Is Josh Allen better than Mayfield? Yes he is to this point even though Mayfield started his career much better. If they had the Browns running backs it would actually hurt Allen's stats, they would run the ball more. The reason why the Bills are successful or at least to this point, is bc Allen is carrying their offense but I don't think that will last if they don't have a running game. He will likely put up stats but they will lose the big games bc playoff-caliber teams will catch on, it's why they got abused by the Chiefs.

The Bills defense was head and heels above the Browns and it isn't close. Overall, he had better receiving weapons and the Browns had the much stronger run game. Like I said, I want to see Allen this year and prove he can do it again when teams are expecting it. Very hard to stop with his dual-threat ability so I expect it to continue.

Also, like I have pointed out before...Baker's had 4 HC's and 3 OC's. Allen's had 1 HC and 1 OC. I think some don't realize how difficult it is, it's night and day. Most young QB's would be out of the league with that much turnover. Not making excuses, Allen has been the better product to this point and his dual-threat is definitely a huge plus in the way football is played today.

Baker had Landry - A solid possession WR. OBJ was hurt. Then he had Higgins, DPJ and Hooper (who disappointed) then some other young guys with potential. I could name a ton of WR corps better than that. OBJ even when he isn't on the same page with Baker makes all the difference in the world to that WR corp.
They run the ball so much bc they have great RB's and great OL, if Allen had those pieces his stats would likely come way down, so that's why it is very hard to compare.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Seriously?

Diggs was a high quality number 2 WR before he got to Buffalo. Now he is viewed as one of the very best in the league. Josh Allen deserves a good bit of credit for that.

Odell Beckham was one of the best WRs in football when he got dealt to Cleveland, now he is viewed as an overpaid liability.

While I am not going to put ODB’s struggles on Baker, if we are being honest about which offense has had more talent at the skill positions, the answer is Cleveland and it isn’t close.

I would probably give Daboll most of the credit, he is a genius OC. Diggs has always shown flashes of being a #1 but kinda hard with Thielen on the field, that dude is a beast. So I am not surprised with all that talent.

It about the players fitting the offense as well though, I think we can all agree Cleveland has the better run game. Landry is a very nice possession WR, so is Beasley for Buffalo. OBJ hasn't exactly worked out but it seems like Diggs to this point is much better in the system they are currently in at least, plus OBJ is always injured (lets hope that changes). I think the receiving corp is comparable. Running game definitely takes CLE up a notch for sure.

 

[dtgold88]

Seriously?

Diggs was a high quality number 2 WR before he got to Buffalo. Now he is viewed as one of the very best in the league. Josh Allen deserves a good bit of credit for that.

Odell Beckham was one of the best WRs in football when he got dealt to Cleveland, now he is viewed as an overpaid liability.

While I am not going to put ODB’s struggles on Baker, if we are being honest about which offense has had more talent at the skill positions, the answer is Cleveland and it isn’t close.

skill overall? agree. Not at WR. Diggs was a #1 WR in anyone's eyes and it's laughable you don't understand that. Did he become a higher level #1? Sure. He is certainly better than Landry as a #1 who Baker had most of last season as his #1. Never mind Higgins as the 2 and Hodge or DPJ as the 3.

 

[tlance]

skill overall? agree. Not at WR. Diggs was a #1 WR in anyone's eyes and it's laughable you don't understand that. Did he become a higher level #1? Sure. He is certainly better than Landry as a #1 who Baker had most of last season as his #1. Never mind Higgins as the 2 and Hodge or DPJ as the 3.

Ok, sorry.

A lower end #1 though.

Like not top 15

 

[dtgold88]

I'm not sure they are comparable, different system, different everything. Is Josh Allen better than Mayfield? Yes he is to this point even though Mayfield started his career much better. If they had the Browns running backs it would actually hurt Allen's stats, they would run the ball more. The reason why the Bills are successful or at least to this point, is bc Allen is carrying their offense but I don't think that will last if they don't have a running game. He will likely put up stats but they will lose the big games bc playoff-caliber teams will catch on, it's why they got abused by the Chiefs.

The Bills defense was head and heels above the Browns and it isn't close. Overall, he had better receiving weapons and the Browns had the much stronger run game. Like I said, I want to see Allen this year and prove he can do it again when teams are expecting it. Very hard to stop with his dual-threat ability so I expect it to continue.

Also, like I have pointed out before...Baker's had 4 HC's and 3 OC's. Allen's had 1 HC and 1 OC. I think some don't realize how difficult it is, it's night and day. Most young QB's would be out of the league with that much turnover. Not making excuses, Allen has been the better product to this point and his dual-threat is definitely a huge plus in the way football is played today.

Baker had Landry - A solid possession WR. OBJ was hurt. Then he had Higgins, DPJ and Hooper (who disappointed) then some other young guys with potential. I could name a ton of WR corps better than that. OBJ even when he isn't on the same page with Baker makes all the difference in the world to that WR corp.
They run the ball so much bc they have great RB's and great OL, if Allen had those pieces his stats would likely come way down, so that's why it is very hard to compare.

Was told you are not a Fan Boy (and you aren't) so perhaps these logical, reasonable comments will be more accepted coming from you.

I mean, I asked this question (and like most irrational people he didn't answer) is Allen in the same place and would he have been as successful had he been drafted by the Jets?

I also happen to agree it looks like Allen is better and good chance he is moving forward, but absurd to think the book is already written on each of them.

 

[dtgold88]

Ok, sorry.

A lower end #1 though.

Like not top 15

I can agree with that. But he's a better #1 than Landry, right? Beasley a better #2 than Higgins? John Brown a better #3 than Hodge or rookie DPJ?

Think Allen has same success if he had to suffer through a season with Freddie? How about if the Jets drafted him?

 

[tlance]

I can agree with that. But he's a better #1 than Landry, right? Beasley a better #2 than Higgins? John Brown a better #3 than Hodge or rookie DPJ?

Think Allen has same success if he had to suffer through a season with Freddie? How about if the Jets drafted him?

Yes

But Baker has had OBJ for more games than he hasn’t over the last 2 years.

And ironically played better without him.

And I answered the Jets question already.

We can predict what might have happened all day. Baker has not had the dire supporting cast that you are trying to portray though.

 

[dtgold88]

Yes

But Baker has had OBJ for more games than he hasn’t over the last 2 years.

And ironically played better without him.

And I answered the Jets question already.

We can predict what might have happened all day. Baker has not had the dire supporting cast that you are trying to portray though.

16 of those games with OBJ also were with Freddie.

it's not ironic he played better without him. He played better without him the first time as Freddie was not in charge and not ironic last season as the entire offense was better once they learned Stefanski's system. Maybe OBJ improves with the rest? Guess we'll find out this season if he can get and stay on the field.

don't recall the answer to the Jet question. Feel free to let me know as maybe I missed it.

Who is trying to portray a "dire supporting cast"? Odd you'd say this when you often cry about words being put in your mouth (even when often they are not and you still complain.

I think Baker has far better RBs than Allen. But, yes, I do think last year Allen had better WRs to work with, especially considering OBJ missed 10 games. No one said dire.

 

[tlance]

16 of those games with OBJ also were with Freddie.

it's not ironic he played better without him. He played better without him the first time as Freddie was not in charge and not ironic last season as the entire offense was better once they learned Stefanski's system. Maybe OBJ improves with the rest? Guess we'll find out this season if he can get and stay on the field.

don't recall the answer to the Jet question. Feel free to let me know as maybe I missed it.

Who is trying to portray a "dire supporting cast"? Odd you'd say this when you often cry about words being put in your mouth (even when often they are not and you still complain.

I think Baker has far better RBs than Allen. But, yes, I do think last year Allen had better WRs to work with, especially considering OBJ missed 10 games. No one said dire.

You keep talking about Baker’s situations making excuses for why he hasn’t done as well as Allen.

Buffalo had an elite offense last year and they were not loaded with elite offensive talent either. Or at least, they weren’t viewed that way prior to this season.

Because they pieces looked a lot better when Allen played like an MVP. He was the catalyst.

Yeah, Freddie sucked and that held Baker back. But, Buffalo was not any kind of juggernaut until Allen made them one.