NBA Finals: Cleveland Cavs VS Golden State Warriors

[SJ76]

Malcolm Gladwell wrote a really good book called "Outliers" which goes into the efficiency of finding and developing talent. Great book...one of the examples in the book is Canadian Hockey players.....basically saying- they have one of the most efficient systems in the world to take advantage of talent--- basically- if you can play hockey in Canada we will find you. They capitalize on that talent in a huge way.

Think of how much better the NBA capitlizes on the talent pool- of the whole world- then it did 20 or 30 years ago- back in the "glory days" of the 80's.

Youd NEVER have Dirk or any of the foreign born players basically.

the college basketball system was no where near as complex or deep or well coached- maybe at a few of the top programs- but now we have literally dozens upon dozens of very very good college basketball teams scouting, giving scholarship offers, and coaching kids up---- WAAAAAAY more capitlization on the talent in the US than 20-30 years ago. Like Damian Lillard- hes probably missed 20 years ago- almost surely.

and then of course all the technological advances in keeping guys healthy and training. Maybe you lost 1/10 guys to injury/poor training/or whatever cause 20-30 years ago------ now those guys can stay healthy, play longer, return from major injury. etc.


the talent pool that the NBA draws from is SOOOOOOOO much bigger a nd so much better capitalized on then 20-30 years ago that it is not even funny. Their has NEVER been a time in the history of the NBA where their has been NEAR this much talent in the league.

Are you saying the foreign players are athletic? Dirk is not athletic. His shoes are basically in concrete.

Maybe the foreigners are coming over more because the level of talent in the US isn't what it once was? The original dream team definitely made the game global. Bird and Magic, then Jordan helped too.

 

[SJ76]

He could dunk hard. That was pretty much it. He's nowhere near as fast or athletic as Lebron.

Go watch the youtube vid bud. He played PF, not SF. The only player in the 2016 Finals that could a candle next to Kemp is Lebron and Lebron only.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Are you saying the foreign players are athletic? Dirk is not athletic. His shoes are basically in concrete.

Maybe the foreigners are coming over more because the level of talent in the US isn't what it once was? The original dream team definitely made the game global. Bird and Magic, then Jordan helped too.

the fact that you are trying to equate talent to only athleticism shows how you really dont get the big picture on this at all.

Their are probably 50 guys cut off of NBA teams every year that have more pure athletic ability than Dirk. I could go find a dozen guys in the Dleague that could make your eyes light up in a dunk contest- that doesnt mean they belong in the NBA.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

NBA today has no Jordan, Kobe, Vince Carter, Shaun Kemp, Karl Malone, Hakeem, Shaq, Dr. J, Magic as far as altheticism..

NBA has nothing even close.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just trying to understand your perspective for reference. How old are you?

 

[SJ76]

the fact that you are trying to equate talent to only athleticism shows how you really dont get the big picture on this at all.

Their are probably 50 guys cut off of NBA teams every year that have more pure athletic ability than Dirk.

If you stopped typing novels, you would see where the athleticism conversation starts. Dirk was good, but he had a good team around him too. It wasn't like Dirk won the title for the Mavs. He hit clutch shots at times, but he's a liability on D and the guy is far from athletic.

 

[SJ76]

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just trying to understand your perspective for reference. How old are you?

Over 30 and under 40. I was about 8-9 when i first started watching NBA. Bird and Magic. Grew up in Illinois in the 90's. How old you are?

 

[SJ76]

Honestly...

Golden St reminds me of 2 Reggie Millers - 1 with better court vision (Steph) and a Dennis Rodman that can shoot 3s (Dray).

 

[WiggyRuss]

If you stopped typing novels, you would see where the athleticism conversation starts. Dirk was good, but he had a good team around him too. It wasn't like Dirk won the title for the Mavs. He hit clutch shots at times, but he's a liability on D and the guy is far from athletic.

Dirk is OBVIOUSLY more talented and valuable then those guys- even if they are more athletic. Athleticism means nothing on its own in the NBA. Have you ever watched JaVale McGee?

 

[SJ76]

Dirk is OBVIOUSLY more talented and valuable then those guys- even if they are more athletic. Athleticism means nothing on its own in the NBA. Have you ever watched JaVale McGee?

Who guys? And are you talking Dirk now or 5-6 years ago?


And you are making my point. Just because some players are more athletic, doesn't mean they are better bball players.

And like i said before, the NBA today has no Jordan, Kobe, Vince Carter, Shaun Kemp, Shaq, Hakeem, etc.

Lebron is a beast, but who's #2? Durant? Steph? How athletic are they?

 

[gordontrue]

Who guys? And are you talking Dirk now or 5-6 years ago?


And you are making my point. Just because some players are more athletic, doesn't mean they are better bball players.

And like i said before, the NBA today has no Jordan, Kobe, Vince Carter, Shaun Kemp, Shaq, Hakeem, etc.

Lebron is a beast, but who's #2? Durant? Steph? How athletic are they?

You are confusing.

You agree that athleticism doesn't decide whether a player is good or not...

Then you claim that today's talent is inferior because some of the top guys aren't athletic???

What are you trying to say?

 

[WiggyRuss]

Who guys? And are you talking Dirk now or 5-6 years ago?


And you are making my point. Just because some players are more athletic, doesn't mean they are better bball players.

And like i said before, the NBA today has no Jordan, Kobe, Vince Carter, Shaun Kemp, Shaq, Hakeem, etc.

Lebron is a beast, but who's #2? Durant? Steph? How athletic are they?

this is all subjective crap though man. What you are saying means nothing- its totally anecdotal...so measure the talent in the NBA you are mentioning random guys who's careers are spread out over at least 20-25 years? It makes no sense.

 

[WiggyRuss]

You are confusing.

You agree that athleticism doesn't decide whether a player is good or not...

Then you claim that today's talent is inferior because some of the top guys aren't athletic???

What are you trying to say?

yah this guy is going around in circles here. Im honestly trying to understand what his point is but it keeps changing it seems like. Its an interesting conversation i believe.

i think it is a VERY fascinating conversation debating the talent in the league--- i think its obvious where i stand...so many people romanticize the "good ole days" to an extent that they really do not deserve.

As Simmons was talking about on his new show with Barkley yesterday- you think guys played a lot of defense in the 80's when a 1/3 of the league was on coke? when guys did not take care of their bodies nearly to the extent they do today...

 

[Black Adam]

IDK about that. In his prime.....Kemp was a freak.

dude could FLAT-OUT ball...

course you'd have to SEE it to know...

 

[WiggyRuss]

and as far as top end athleticism goes....RW and LeBron can compare against any guys who ever played athletically....

Durant, Wall, Anthony Davis, Towns, Paul George, Blake Griffin is basically a Kemp 2.0, Leonard.....

 

[SJ76]

You are confusing.

You agree that athleticism doesn't decide whether a player is good or not...

Then you claim that today's talent is inferior because some of the top guys aren't athletic???

What are you trying to say?

Go back and read where someone else said that players today are more athletic. I said you don't see Jordan, Kobe, Vince Carter type athleticism in the NBA today.

There is talent in the NBA today, just not like there was back in the day. I don't see a Stockton type player in the league. Shaq, Hakeem, Mailman, Admiral, Shaun Kemp, The Glove, Magic...

That's some talent.


What i also said 5 times is that Golden St isn't even in the conversation as 1 of the best teams ever.

 

[Shanemansj13]

NBA today has no Jordan, Kobe, Vince Carter, Shaun Kemp, Karl Malone, Hakeem, Shaq, Dr. J, Magic as far as altheticism..

NBA has nothing even close.

Well the game has changed, it isn't the same. And that is just a handful of people from different decades, proves nothing. The fact is the game has changed and rules too. You see more jump shooting teams and less dominant forces inside. But the athleticism is by far more superior now, naming a handful of players doesn't prove anything lol.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Over 30 and under 40. I was about 8-9 when i first started watching NBA. Bird and Magic. Grew up in Illinois in the 90's. How old you are?

More or less the same. I hit the big 4-0 this Sunday. I'm not much of a basketball fan, but got caught up in the madness here in NE Ohio. Big baseball fan.

 

[SJ76]

and as far as top end athleticism goes....RW and LeBron can compare against any guys who ever played athletically....

Durant, Wall, Anthony Davis, Towns, Paul George, Blake Griffin is basically a Kemp 2.0, Leonard.....

Westbrook is a beast
Durant is a jump shooter and that's it. He can't post anyone up and rarely goes to the hole.
John Wall is pretty nasty when he wants to be
UNibrow is gonna be pretty dam nasty too. But needs to add some weight
Paul George?
Towns is raw
Griffin can't dribble like Kemp could, but both played above the rim



Still don't see an MJ, Kobe or Vince Carter like player in the league. Nor 1 dominant center either.

 

[SJ76]

Well the game has changed, it isn't the same. And that is just a handful of people from different decades, proves nothing. The fact is the game has changed and rules too. You see more jump shooting teams and less dominant forces inside. But the athleticism is by far more superior now, naming a handful of players doesn't prove anything lol.

If the athleticism is superior to the past NBA teams, then why are you having jump shooting teams winning titles? I could go back to many Finals in the 80s/90s and find way more athletic players than were in the 2016 Finals.

 

[SJ76]

this is all subjective crap though man. What you are saying means nothing- its totally anecdotal...so measure the talent in the NBA you are mentioning random guys who's careers are spread out over at least 20-25 years? It makes no sense.

Pretty simple man if you can read. Someone said today's league is more athletic...

I said it wasn't. Players today vs back in the day