NBA Finals: Cleveland Cavs VS Golden State Warriors

[Shaqdaddy11]

Maybe not, but they would not be significantly better either.

Yes they would.

Jordan is the best player to ever play the game and had 10 times more fight and winning determination in him that lebron has. Not only does a prime Jordan make the Cavs SIGNIFICANTLY better, they probably have a damn good chance in beating GS.

 

[tlance]

We all knew Kyrie was already on the Cavs roster. But the point being is that Lebron chose to come back and play with Kyrie as he thought that Kyrie would get the same production as Wade. Offensively he has (until this series), but defensively he's always been bad. Same could be said of Love. And for the record, I called it from day 1 that Love was a shit defender when we got into discussion on which big 3 would be better. I knew they would've been better off with Wiggins as he's more versatile and the better defender than Love. Hell, you could say he even has a higher ceiling than Love.

So yes, this is why people (not just us on this forum) say Lebron picked this roster. Because just about every decision is ran by him.

See, you are making assumptions here. Granted, I am too.

Still though, saying that LeBron handpicked the Cavs and Kyrie implies that he thought they gave him the BEST chance to win.

I don't think that is true. He would not have gone there if he thought they had no chance, but the opportunity to return home and rebuild his image was worth more to him than finding the team that gave him the greatest Liklihood of winning.

 

[tlance]

Yes they would.

Jordan is the best player to ever play the game and had 10 times more fight and winning determination in him that lebron has. Not only does a prime Jordan make the Cavs SIGNIFICANTLY better, they probably have a damn good chance in beating GS.

Ah, another victim to the myth of Jordan. Did you actually watch him play?

Jordan is the best ever and he has more fight than anybody. I agree on both points. The problem is that LeBron's roster in Cleveland might not win half as many games without LeBron as Jordan's Bulls would without him.

Keep in mind, the Bulls were a blown call in game 5 on a Hubert Davis 3 away from advancing to the East Finals in '93. Back then the East was actually tough. The Current Cavs might not have made the playoffs without LeBron.

But sure, put Jordan on the roster and everything magically changes.

 

[gordontrue]

Ya gotta admire how well run the Spurs are.

Same number of titles in the last decade as LeBron.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Ah, another victim to the myth of Jordan. Did you actually watch him play?

Jordan is the best ever and he has more fight than anybody. I agree on both points. The problem is that LeBron's roster in Cleveland might not win half as many games without LeBron as Jordan's Bulls would without him.

Keep in mind, the Bulls were a blown call in game 5 on a Hubert Davis 3 away from advancing to the East Finals in '93. Back then the East was actually tough. The Current Cavs might not have made the playoffs without LeBron.

But sure, put Jordan on the roster and everything magically changes.

Hold up, when did this become a Lebrons Cavs vs. Jordans Bulls debate? You're deliberately going off topic here to mask what you said earlier:

Lastly, while everyone wants to make this all about LeBron, if you trade LeBron for prime Jordan, this Cavs team is not any better. In fact, there is a chance they might even be worse. Kyrie and Love would not be able to handle Jordan's fury.

And I call bullshit!

 

[Wamu]

Same number of titles in the last decade as LeBron.

Why even compare 1 player to an entire franchise? And let's go back 13 years instead, the same # of years LeBron's been in the league. In that time frame no team in the league has won more titles than the Spurs.

 

[Heatles84]

See, you are making assumptions here. Granted, I am too.

Still though, saying that LeBron handpicked the Cavs and Kyrie implies that he thought they gave him the BEST chance to win.

I don't think that is true. He would not have gone there if he thought they had no chance, but the opportunity to return home and rebuild his image was worth more to him than finding the team that gave him the greatest Liklihood of winning.

Everything is pre-calculated through Lebron. He left Miami because he felt that they couldn't win anymore, not that he wanted to go home. Shit, he mentioned that if Miami had 3-peated, he would've been there for his 5th year.

Lebron saw the amount of young talent that Cleveland had stock piled through the draft. He even mentioned it with his SI Letter that he looked forward to working with a select few Cavs players, Irving being named as one. He knew Irving was a good talent that he could build off of and serve as the Wade role. He saw Irving and Love (who was about to get traded) as a younger duo than Bosh and Wade that could help him carry the load more than the latter two.

Them not being as efficient defenders than Wade and Bosh wasn't exactly a surprise. Everyone on this forum knew that Irving and Love were limited in that aspect. But Lebron thought they'd be enough to win a title - which has always been his goal.

 

[Heatles84]

Same number of titles in the last decade as LeBron.

Expand to the last 17 years and it gets rather impressive. Especially considering the amount of consecutive 50+ win seasons and how often they're in the title chase.

 

[gordontrue]

Why even compare 1 player to an entire franchise? And let's go back 13 years instead, the same # of years LeBron's been in the league. In that time frame no team in the league has won more titles than the Spurs.

I'm not trying to disparage the spurs. They are the model franchise and are arguably the best since Duncan came into the league.

I just find it funny how their frequent early round losses are glossed over. No one would ever dare suggest the spurs franchise is anything but greatness. They are as immune to criticism as LeBron is susceptible.

 

[Heatles84]

Why even compare 1 player to an entire franchise? And let's go back 13 years instead, the same # of years LeBron's been in the league. In that time frame no team in the league has won more titles than the Spurs.

Yeah, I'm not a fan when some choose to focus the numbers on a particular way to support their argument. Because in that case, in the last 11 years, no team has won more titles than the Heat.

 

[Wamu]

Yeah, I'm not a fan when some choose to focus the numbers on a particular way to support their argument. Because in that case, in the last 11 years, no team has won more titles than the Heat.

Yep & good point. Although I did mess up. Spaced out about the Heats '06 title. I should have mentioned Miami's 3 rings in that time frame but should have mentioned the Spurs playoff streak as well.

 

[gordontrue]

Expand to the last 17 years and it gets rather impressive. Especially considering the amount of consecutive 50+ win seasons and how often they're in the title chase.

So your saying that being in the title hunt means something?? There is merit to success outside of championships??

Did I hear that right. You guys have been ramming the exact opposite message down this forums throat all season long.

 

[tlance]

Hold up, when did this become a Lebrons Cavs vs. Jordans Bulls debate? You're deliberately going off topic here to mask what you said earlier:



And I call bullshit!

No, I am backing up my point. You just keep repeating yourself. Basically saying that Jordan would make them better because he is Jordan.

Jordan was great, but the original point I was making with my first comment that you quoted was that people give far too much credit and lay far too much blame on individuals for wins and losses. Jordan's supporting cast was awesome and he would have had 0 rings without them.

So why then is championships won the deciding factor in the GOAT debate when titles so clearly depend on so much more than 1 players' talents?

 

[gordontrue]

Yeah, I'm not a fan when some choose to focus the numbers on a particular way to support their argument. Because in that case, in the last 11 years, no team has won more titles than the Heat.

Yep a decade is such a random number.

I could make it 9 years and say LeBron has won more. That work for you??

 

[gordontrue]

LeBron analyzed all 30 teams looking for the best roster of talent available.

The fact that he is from Cleveland and was on the team for 8 years is just a crazy coincidence.

Let's also ignore the fact that LeBron was officially committed to CLE long before Love made his decision.

 

[LAD]

How about this one?

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

No, I am backing up my point. You just keep repeating yourself. Basically saying that Jordan would make them better because he is Jordan.

I'm basically saying that if you replace a guy that's maybe ranked 9th-10th in the Top 10 players of all time with the BEST player of all time, the team automatically gets better.

Jordan was great, but the original point I was making with my first comment that you quoted was that people give far too much credit and lay far too much blame on individuals for wins and losses. Jordan's supporting cast was awesome and he would have had 0 rings without them.

Just like Shaq wouldn't have won without Kobe, Kobe wouldn't have won without Gasol, Lebron wouldn't have won without Wade and Bosh etc etc. We all know this

So why then is championships won the deciding factor in the GOAT debate when titles so clearly depend on so much more than 1 players' talents?

It's not. Jordan is the better overall player and has more personal awards too. Plus 6-0 is only just slightly better than what will be 2-5

 

[Wamu]

The fact that he is from Cleveland and was on the team for 8 years is just a crazy coincidence.

He's not from Cleveland though.

 

[gordontrue]

How about this one?

View attachment 125702

Even if the Cavs had won the first 2 games by 50 points.... There is no way in hell I would post an image of Cavs players holding the 2016 trophy 2 games into the series.

Bad ju ju.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Bad ju ju.

I think the Warriors will be ok