NBA Finals: Cleveland Cavs VS Golden State Warriors

[tlance]

I'm not sure what the point is in this debate however I want to comment in reference to the bolded sentence.

Kobe & Duncan both started their careers in the MJ era and have each played through the last season...and have managed to win more titles than LBJ. Just sayin....

I am not trying to say LeBron is greater than he is. I am saying that the ring count is not the best way to determine who is best because nobody wins alone.

 

[LAD]

When did I ever say they have a good bench. I said the Warriors have great depth. That has been the problem one most of Lebron teams back in Miami was the bench. The bench has always been in question but I like how when guys struggle the team they put together just isn't a good match lol. Everyone is struggling, plain and simple, you add in that guys are having career games in the playoffs for GS and it will be a short series and a struggle. It's funny we didn't hear a word when J.R. was hitting shots, this was expected it just came at the worst time. I do see a lineup change coming though. GS is an all-time great team and they are lucky to have basically starters as backups, not every team has that luxury.

Response to the bolded content:
The ENTIRE GS team have been having career games and breaking records all season. This is only new to Cleveland because the competition in the East is severally lacking.

Everyone told you that JR wouldn't be making those shots the entire post season- hence the phrase "streak" shooter. Simply put, it came at the worst time because GS plays defense. Add to that he's having to expend so much energy trying to defend it's no wonder he doesn't have his legs under him to shoot multiple 3's.

 

[LAD]

I am not trying to say LeBron is greater than he is. I am saying that the ring count is not the best way to determine who is best because nobody wins alone.

I understand...it seemed like the point was that LBJ didn't have the ring count because of the era that he plays in.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

I am not trying to say LeBron is greater than he is. I am saying that the ring count is not the best way to determine who is best because nobody wins alone.

Jordan wasn't alone when he won his championships. He's 6-0
Kobe wasn't alone when he won his championships. He's 5-2
Lebron wasn't alone when he won his championships. He's about to be 2-5

Pretty clear cut stats!

 

[tlance]

Jordan wasn't alone when he won his championships. He's 6-0
Kobe wasn't alone when he won his championships. He's 5-2
Lebron wasn't alone when he won his championships. He's about to be 2-5

Pretty clear cut stats!

I am done here because you just don't get it.

LeBron played with elite talent in Miami and went 2-2. That is good, not great.

He has not had anywhere near the talent he had in Miami or that Kobe or MJ played with when they won titles during his time in Cleveland. Yet, everyone wants to say LeBron is garbage because he can't win in Cleveland.

That is my main point. If Jordan never played with teammates better than what LeBron has now, he would not be the GOAT because he would have 0 rings.

 

[Heatles84]

Jordan wasn't alone when he won his championships. He's 6-0
Kobe wasn't alone when he won his championships. He's 5-2
Lebron wasn't alone when he won his championships. He's about to be 2-5

Pretty clear cut stats!

I'm of the mindset that you can't use statistics like this to truly evaluate how great players are. I really do as the Finals record doesn't tell the whole story. But as you mentioned, Lebron has had help. Jordan and Kobe both had their struggles making it to the top. Jordan needed Pippen to be added to the team and mature, as well as Jordan himself needed to put on muscle mass to get by the Pistons. Once he got over that hurdle, he captured the throne and never relinquished it.

I remember the late 90's Lakers. I remember those old NBC commercials hyping up a young Lakers team consisting of Bryant, Shaq, Nick Van Exel, and Eddie Jones calling it a future championship team when Del Harris was the Lakers coach. Eventually a solid core was added to the team in place of Jones and Van Exel, and Shaq and Kobe were able to win titles in dominant fashion 3 years in a row. Both players would also go onto winning at separate times later on in their careers to solidify their standings as all-time greats.

Thing is with Lebron, we've yet to really see a string of years where he's had championship dominance like the names mentioned before. The Finals are when the real players comes out. It's like former UM player Santana Moss always said - big time players make big time plays in big time games. Same could be applied to basketball. Lebron will forever have 2011 on his resume. But in some ways made up for it, particularly in 2013 when he had a masterful series against the Spurs, which seemed like a fairy tale in how he finally conquered the Spurs. Only for them to bounce back and trounce the team that he led in terms of production.

Finals record doesn't tell the whole story on how great a player is, but it's still pretty telling in how his teams respond to his play.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

He has not had anywhere near the talent he had in Miami or that Kobe or MJ played with when they won titles during his time in Cleveland. Yet, everyone wants to say LeBron is garbage because he can't win in Cleveland.

Oh, now it's the "he doesn't have any talent around him" excuse? He HANDPICKED the team he has now.

GTFO

 

[tlance]

Oh, now it's the "he doesn't have any talent around him" excuse? He HANDPICKED the team he has now.

GTFO

OMG. You really are slow. He returned to Clevland. A handpicked team would contain the following:

CP3
Wade
Melo

Not saying that would be a lock to win, but Irving and Love are not LeBron's handpicked running mates. I have been saying all year that Cleveland is not good enough to win.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

OMG. You really are slow. He returned to Clevland. A handpicked team would contain the following:

CP3
Wade
Melo

Not saying that would be a lock to win, but Irving and Love are not LeBron's handpicked running mates. I have been saying all year that Cleveland is not good enough to win.

Really? So he returned to Cleveland because they had a such a great season before he went back? You've got to be gullible as fuck if you think he had no say in who plays for the team.

 

[tlance]

Really? So he returned to Cleveland because they had a such a great season before he went back? You've got to be gullible as fuck if you think he had no say in who plays for the team.

Have you read any of my posts?

Of course he has had say. That does not mean he handpicked the team. Big difference. Kyrie was there and it was either keep Wiggins or trade him for Love. Once they had that core in place, they were more or less stuck aside from minor moves.

 

[bksballer89]

Have you read any of my posts?

Of course he has had say. That does not mean he handpicked the team. Big difference. Kyrie was there and it was either keep Wiggins or trade him for Love. Once they had that core in place, they were more or less stuck aside from minor moves.

I agree with this. I think he may have requested guys to be traded though. For example I think he requested Waiters to be moved in return for a C because Waiters was clearly a bad fit. I don't think he demanded JR and Shump along with Mozgov in return for Waiters.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Have you read any of my posts?

Of course he has had say. That does not mean he handpicked the team. Big difference. Kyrie was there and it was either keep Wiggins or trade him for Love. Once they had that core in place, they were more or less stuck aside from minor moves.

Lebron has wanted to play with Love for years. Even openly admitted to it when he was in Miami. All he had to is wait for cleveland to luck out and get the #1 pick in a stacked draft which made the ideal trade bait to get Love. It was Lebron that wanted Love, not Gilbert, not Blatt.

Look we get it, you're another lebron fan boy afraid to admit it but extremely defensive when somebody says something negative about him. You lost me at "A prime Jordan would make the Cavs worse if replaced for Lebron"

 

[tlance]

Lebron has wanted to play with Love for years. Even openly admitted to it when he was in Miami. All he had to is wait for cleveland to luck out and get the #1 pick in a stacked draft which made the ideal trade bait to get Love. It was Lebron that wanted Love, not Gilbert, not Blatt.

Look we get it, you're another lebron fan boy afraid to admit it but extremely defensive when somebody says something negative about him. You lost me at "A prime Jordan would make the Cavs worse if replaced for Lebron"

I am not a LeBron fan at all. I am rooting for GS and I believe I was one of few, maybe the only person who said I thought GS could sweep.

The difference between me and you is that I am objective and I can think for myself.

Sure LeBron preferred Love over a rookie, but that still is quite a huge reach to say he handpicked the team. Griffin would not have made the deal if LeBron preferred Wiggins, but that does not mean they would not have considered it or even come to the same conclusion without LeBron's input.

 

[Kold]

Lebron has a championship caliber team around him, I don't think that its a debate. Some even were calling this his GREATEST surrounding cast EVER. When they got to 10-0, and ultimately to the point where Lebron had reached his 6th straight Finals, people were all over Lebron(and this team) with praise. Moving to this series, it's not just as simple as saying, "well so, and so just isn't showing up" because they aren't just out there by themselves. THE WARRIORS are playing great defense, and that is the reason why some are struggling. Even Lebron while having a nice stat line last game, still had 19 points on 17 shots with 8 turnovers. The warriors have done a good job as he hasn't been effecient, so he isn't just completely off the hook here. Spare me with this, oh leave him alone because he doesn't have enough help excuse, first off because while knowing about their defensive inefficienies, so many people still used the "if he had love and kyrie" excuse last year, and secondly because, it's not about his help this time, it's about the fact that GS is just playing better at the moment. Also it doesn't help, that it seemed clear to some of us months ago that Cleveland would be screwed if they tried to out small ball the Warriors

 

[Kold]

I agree with this. I think he may have requested guys to be traded though. For example I think he requested Waiters to be moved in return for a C because Waiters was clearly a bad fit. I don't think he demanded JR and Shump along with Mozgov in return for Waiters.

Not that I'm trying to pile on Lebron, and I'll look this up to make sure it's true, but I think I remember a report that said that Lebron convinced Griffin to take JR, giving him an assurance that he'd be able to handle JR

 

[Heatles84]

I am done here because you just don't get it.

LeBron played with elite talent in Miami and went 2-2. That is good, not great.

He has not had anywhere near the talent he had in Miami or that Kobe or MJ played with when they won titles during his time in Cleveland. Yet, everyone wants to say LeBron is garbage because he can't win in Cleveland.

That is my main point. If Jordan never played with teammates better than what LeBron has now, he would not be the GOAT because he would have 0 rings.

I agree with you on the first 8 years in Cleveland. Management made crappy moves around him. However, there's no excuses in terms of not having any talent around him this go around. He has the highest paid roster in league history (fully aware that TT is overpaid). No excuse of losing with this team the way they are.

 

[Robotech]

Jordan wasn't alone when he won his championships. He's 6-0
Kobe wasn't alone when he won his championships. He's 5-2
Lebron wasn't alone when he won his championships. He's about to be 2-5

Pretty clear cut stats!

Yeah, but in most of those Finals, LeBron didn't have the better team. It's not really his fault that the Warriors are an all-time great team, unless you say that as Cleveland's unofficial GM, he should've traded for Klay Thompson. LOL.

 

[Black Adam]

Well to be fair he really doesn't talk that much shit.

depends on what you call TOO much, I suppose...

to me 2 years running is too much, but that's just me...

 

[bksballer89]

I am not a LeBron fan at all. I am rooting for GS and I believe I was one of few, maybe the only person who said I thought GS could sweep.

The difference between me and you is that I am objective and I can think for myself.

Sure LeBron preferred Love over a rookie, but that still is quite a huge reach to say he handpicked the team. Griffin would not have made the deal if LeBron preferred Wiggins, but that does not mean they would not have considered it or even come to the same conclusion without LeBron's input.

Some people makes no sense to debate with especially when they hate a person and can't be objective. Dealt with this a lot when LBJ played for the Heat. It is just a waste of time

 

[Wamu]

depends on what you call TOO much, I suppose...

to me 2 years running is too much, but that's just me...

Oh he's not that bad. If ya ignore most of his comments.