My current framing of the MJ vs LeBron debate

[Jordan23]

Well of course I don't expect agreement from someone like you who doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about. But it's fun to watch you try.

lol I’m betting you are a guy who played maybe elementary ball at best? Classic seeing dipshits try argue for the WWE nba over March madness where teams play team ball and upsets happen. NBA let’s build a super team that way next year everyone has a 90% chance of guessing what teams will meet in th finals, woohoo!!!!

 

[trojanfan12]

Which gets me thinking, who else could make a case for 4th besides Magic? Wilt? Hakeem?

I love Wilt, but I'd probably go with Hakeem. It's not Wilts fault that he didn't get to play against guys like Kareem who could actually stand up to his size and athleticism until later in his career, but it still has to count against him.

 

[msgkings322]

lol I’m betting you are a guy who played maybe elementary ball at best? Classic seeing dipshits try argue for the WWE nba over March madness where teams play team ball and upsets happen. NBA let’s build a super team that way next year everyone has a 90% chance of guessing what teams will meet in th finals, woohoo!!!!

There's really no other way to see it

 

[Jordan23]

There's really no other way to see it

Thanks for throwing in the towel. Good day

 

[msgkings322]

Thanks for throwing in the towel. Good day

I really shouldn't have tried to challenge you on this

 

[UK Cowboy]

lol

The fact that you think Magic, Kobe and Bird all have cases for 2nd shows you don't really know the game. Their arguments are for 4th and I wouldn't even put Bird or Kobe that high.

That's crap. Bird couldn't dunk like LBJ but was every bit as good. You're a fool

 

[Robotech]

MJ was better. But them on the same team, have them face each other, MJ's team is gonna beat them every series.

There are no guarantees or absolutes in sports. Every game, every series is different. Even if one player or one team is better than the other, it won't be a win every single time.

 

[Robotech]

Yeah the college game is way better. Much more skilled.

College basketball is a terrible product. It's basically watching each team run down the shot clock and then watching someone throw up a low percentage shot.

 

[UK Cowboy]

There are no guarantees or absolutes in sports. Every game, every series is different. Even if one player or one team is better than the other, it won't be a win every single time.

Last night's all star game was an example of why you can't look at any stats from this era and do anything but roll your eyes. I could have scored 20 in that game. Most people can hit uncontested layups. LBJ gets praised for his longevity. He wouldn't have played 20 years if he came up in the 80s. Not a prayer. The game was so physical he would have been lucky to play 12 as soft as he is

 

[Robotech]

Last night's all star game was an example of why you can't look at any stats from this era and do anything but roll your eyes. I could have scored 20 in that game. Most people can hit uncontested layups. LBJ gets praised for his longevity. He wouldn't have played 20 years if he came up in the 80s. Not a prayer. The game was so physical he would have been lucky to play 12 as soft as he is

Apples to oranges. The All Star Game is very different from other games. It's taken less seriously than a preseason game. Much less seriously.

 

[broncosmitty]

LeBron’s longevity sometimes feels like it loses impact on account of taking his talents elsewhere three times.

Like if he’d always been a Cav, he’s prolly the best #1 pick of all time.

Jordan’s dominance of Bulls success is amazing after 25+ years. We don’t need any of his Wizard time to argue his legacy. LBJ still needs to add at almost 40, with his third franchise.

Bird and Magic being one team guys is glory. But both had short runs tbh. I can’t put Magic higher than 4th anymore. But I think I can still put the Big O 5.

MJ
LBJ
Kareem
Magic
Big O

 

[msgkings322]

LeBron’s longevity sometimes feels like it loses impact on account of taking his talents elsewhere three times.

Like if he’d always been a Cav, he’s prolly the best #1 pick of all time.

Jordan’s dominance of Bulls success is amazing after 25+ years. We don’t need any of his Wizard time to argue his legacy. LBJ still needs to add at almost 40, with his third franchise.

Bird and Magic being one team guys is glory. But both had short runs tbh. I can’t put Magic higher than 4th anymore. But I think I can still put the Big O 5.

MJ
LBJ
Kareem
Magic
Big O

He's still the best #1 pick of all time this is silly

 

[DrewScott]

Starting a team now with 2024 rules and getting the player in his prime:

Jokic
Curry
MJ
LeBron

 

[tlance]

March madness trumps anything nba related. Upsets and college hoops blows the nba away. I didn’t say the guys were better.

You are confusing the uncertainty and mayhem of a 1 and done tournament over quality.

March Madness is very fun.

But your quote was “college hoops is way better than this garbage”.

Talking about the quality of the NBA product. And this was in context with a discussion about quality of play.

You are just flat out wrong. Not even a defensible opinion.

 

[tlance]

That's crap. Bird couldn't dunk like LBJ but was every bit as good. You're a fool

No, he really wasn’t.

And if you would actually use logic, it would be easy to see.

The closest LeBron comparison in terms of style of play is Magic.

But what did Magic actually do better than LeBron besides shoot free throws? LeBron was a much better defender, better shooter, better scorer. And a far superior athlete.

Ok, Magic gets the edge on playmaking too, but the gap is a lot narrower than those areas mentioned above where LeBron was very clearly a lot better.

Magic and Bird were peers at the top of the NBA landscape for nearly a decade. No clear cut answer as to who was better.

LeBron was the unrivaled best player in the league for at least a decade, if not more.

LeBron is better than Bird and Magic to anyone valuing logic over blind nostalgia.

 

[broncosmitty]

He's still the best #1 pick of all time this is silly

Kareem won the same amount of titles for the team that drafted him.

Has more rings.

Has more MVPs.

It’s not cut and dried imo.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

LeBron’s longevity sometimes feels like it loses impact on account of taking his talents elsewhere three times.

Like if he’d always been a Cav, he’s prolly the best #1 pick of all time.

Jordan’s dominance of Bulls success is amazing after 25+ years. We don’t need any of his Wizard time to argue his legacy. LBJ still needs to add at almost 40, with his third franchise.

Bird and Magic being one team guys is glory. But both had short runs tbh. I can’t put Magic higher than 4th anymore. But I think I can still put the Big O 5.

MJ
LBJ
Kareem
Magic
Big O

Bird and Magic also ended up at historic franchises that were loaded with talent. We all know what Lebron had even in 2007.

For whatever reason we don't seem to knock Kareem for the same thing....he's Lebron before Lebron in that regard.

But the top 3 is locked in as you have it...with the only debate in my mind is as to Jordan or Lebron.

 

[broncosmitty]

Bird and Magic also ended up at historic franchises that were loaded with talent. We all know what Lebron had even in 2007.

For whatever reason we don't seem to knock Kareem for the same thing....he's Lebron before Lebron in that regard.

But the top 3 is locked in as you have it...with the only debate in my mind is as to Jordan or Lebron.

Loaded with talent?

Why is that?

The Celtics were awful before Bird. Fewest wins since the 40’s right before he got there. Red Auerbach almost left they were so bad. Didn’t get McHale and Parrish until after Bird.

I have Kareem below LBJ. What else can I do?

 

[tlance]

Loaded with talent?

Why is that?

The Celtics were awful before Bird. Fewest wins since the 40’s right before he got there. Red Auerbach almost left they were so bad. Didn’t get McHale and Parrish until after Bird.

I have Kareem below LBJ. What else can I do?

Why does it matter how bad the Celtics were before Bird arrived?

Aerbauch did an amazing job assembling the roster and they were absolutely loaded with talent.

If LeBron was in any type of comparable situation with HOF teammates in a destination market and limited free agency options then guess what?

He probably never moves either.

 

[broncosmitty]

Why does it matter how bad the Celtics were before Bird arrived?

Aerbauch did an amazing job assembling the roster and they were absolutely loaded with talent.

If LeBron was in any type of comparable situation with HOF teammates in a destination market and limited free agency options then guess what?

He probably never moves either.

They were not loaded with talent before Bird. That’s nonsense. They were terrible.