My current framing of the MJ vs LeBron debate

[Robotech]

Much less so lately. As mentioned in the OP there's no definitive answer that can be proven, both are legit.

I just feel he was the bigger factor overall. A one man team went to the Finals (2007) because the one man was LeBron. He is the better passer, better rebounder, equal or better defender, and the bigger body. And he is way ahead on three point shooting.

 

[dtgold88]

I just feel he was the bigger factor overall. A one man team went to the Finals (2007) because the one man was LeBron. He is the better passer, better rebounder, equal or better defender, and the bigger body. And he is way ahead on three point shooting.

I don't think he's the better defender, though I guess you could say he'd be better guarding 4s and 5s.

No doubt a strong case can be made for him (or MJ).

 

[msgkings322]

I just feel he was the bigger factor overall. A one man team went to the Finals (2007) because the one man was LeBron. He is the better passer, better rebounder, equal or better defender, and the bigger body. And he is way ahead on three point shooting.

Sure, like I said you can make a case for both. MJ was a better defender though (very hard to truly parse this, different positions, etc), and obviously much better scorer, including the delta between him and the rest of the league. He was scoring 30 a game when that was unheard of. If 3 point shooting had been a thing back then MJ woulda been all over that too. Imagine his scoring totals today, with the spaced floor and him hitting 4 threes a game...38 ppg LOL

I go back to the OP framing, MJ was more dominant in his 7-8 year window, bigger delta between him and the rest of the league. But LeBron does have skills MJ did not, and was obviously much better at being great for longer. Not even Kareem can touch him on that.

 

[Robotech]

I don't think he's the better defender, though I guess you could say he'd be better guarding 4s and 5s.

No doubt a strong case can be made for him (or MJ).

Yup, that's exactly what I was thinking about. Size matters. LeBron holds up in the paint better than MJ.

 

[msgkings322]

Yup, that's exactly what I was thinking about. Size matters. LeBron holds up in the paint better than MJ.

But MJ was a better perimeter defender...like the overall GOAT debate, no way to truly say who was 'better'

 

[Robotech]

Sure, like I said you can make a case for both. MJ was a better defender though (very hard to truly parse this, different positions, etc), and obviously much better scorer, including the delta between him and the rest of the league. He was scoring 30 a game when that was unheard of. If 3 point shooting had been a thing back then MJ woulda been all over that too. Imagine his scoring totals today, with the spaced floor and him hitting 4 threes a game...38 ppg LOL

I go back to the OP framing, MJ was more dominant in his 7-8 year window, bigger delta between him and the rest of the league. But LeBron does have skills MJ did not, and was obviously much better at being great for longer. Not even Kareem can touch him on that.

I'm not so sure about the scoring and shooting part. LeBron has a higher TS%. Also, the NBA has more talent now, so it's a tougher league to dominate.

 

[msgkings322]

I'm not so sure about the scoring and shooting part. LeBron has a higher TS%. Also, the NBA has more talent now, so it's a tougher league to dominate.

All good points! I'm far more of a LeBron stan than the average middle aged dude. But MJ had an 'it' factor of will that is hard to describe, you just knew he had it.

The fun is in the arguing, both have been a privilege to watch play the sport at the highest level.

 

[dtgold88]

All good points! I'm far more of a LeBron stan than the average middle aged dude. But MJ had an 'it' factor of will that is hard to describe, you just knew he had it.

The fun is in the arguing, both have been a privilege to watch play the sport at the highest level.

Not so sure about that it factor unless it can mean he was a D? Lebron could be that in some respects but think MJ did have him beat there.

 

[tlance]

You really believe if the CBA for MJ was like this one there's no chance MJ leaves for a similar offer from NY just to screw Krause?

I would go so far as to say it is highly likely he leaves.

That man hated Jerry Krause.

 

[dtgold88]

I would go so far as to say it is highly likely he leaves.

That man hated Jerry Krause.

sure seems to be the case......which is odd since he helped put a team together that could win 55 without MJ while MJ was a pretty bad GM/judge of talent.

 

[tlance]

sure seems to be the case......which is odd since he helped put a team together that could win 55 without MJ while MJ was a pretty bad GM/judge of talent.

Yeah, but MJ is also famous for being petty.

And Krause did give him plenty of ammunition.

 

[RobToxin]

There was a fella named Dr J with all the talent/ability of these two but just didn't play in the right era.

Never gets enough love in any GOAT conversation because of that.

 

[trojanfan12]

All good points! I'm far more of a LeBron stan than the average middle aged dude. But MJ had an 'it' factor of will that is hard to describe, you just knew he had it.

The fun is in the arguing, both have been a privilege to watch play the sport at the highest level.

Yeah, the debates are fun, but ultimately don't settle anything. Generally speaking, the 3 that most often get included in the GOAT convo are MJ, Lebron and Kareem. I'd guess that most who have Lebron as GOAT, have never seen Kareem play and barely saw MJ. Many who vote MJ either never saw Kareem or saw the end of his career.

Hard to know how great any player was if you saw very little or even none of their career.

 

[tlance]

There was a fella named Dr J with all the talent/ability of these two but just didn't play in the right era.

Never gets enough love in any GOAT conversation because of that.

Nah.

He doesn’t get the love because his resume simply doesn’t stack up.

1 title and 1 NBA MVP. Just not close to the level of the top dogs.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Put any frame you want on it, MJ was better than LBJ

 

[msgkings322]

Put any frame you want on it, MJ was better than LBJ

Only for a limited time. LeBron has been better for longer. And LeBron is better than MJ ever was at some things (just as Jordan was better than LeBron at other things)

 

[UK Cowboy]

Only for a limited time. LeBron has been better for longer. And LeBron is better than MJ ever was at some things (just as Jordan was better than LeBron at other things)

MJ was better. But them on the same team, have them face each other, MJ's team is gonna beat them every series.

 

[msgkings322]

MJ was better. But them on the same team, have them face each other, MJ's team is gonna beat them every series.

Nope

As @dtgold88 said above, plenty of good arguments to put MJ on top, but to claim it's not close is asinine.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Nope

As @dtgold88 said above, plenty of good arguments to put MJ on top, but to claim it's not close is asinine.

Nope, it's the truth

 

[tlance]

Nope, it's the truth

Only to the close minded people living in the past.