Mountain West seeking partnership with PAC12

[WhiteMamba]

IMO, you can take a 20-30 year snapshot of any program and call it an Elite Program.

It is when you step back and look at the entire program through Historical Eyes that you can judge it all.

1st Tier Programs DO NOT
go 0-10-1 and 0-9.
go 85 years without a Conference Title. Started play in 1906, won first Conference title in 1991. Won one in 85 I think but had to forfeit.
play NO ONE of Merit on their schedule.

From 1906-1990 Florida did NOTHING.

Oh I am Sorry, they Won ONE Orange Bowl.

Ok, We get it. And I know what you are up to... USC is one of the top 2 or3 historically speaking of all time. IMO they are #1. There ya go.

But what does history of games played when most of us werent alive have to do with anything? Historically sure great teams... Harvard, Army, and Navy come to mind as great historic teams as well. What good is that now????

Just an FYI. We are in 2013... OK. As a fan of any CFB program you have to ask yourself, What have you done for me lately?

Rarely do CFB fans rest their heads on success from decades ago. Most CFB fans are living in the here and now ( say last 10-15 years of performance as a gauge for where that program is. ) Alot of the new age CFB fans will only give you the last 5 years of a resume to judge your program...

An appropriate quote from Danny Ainge....

" Larry Bird aint walking through that door"

 

[WhiteMamba]

And the above post by me is on no way an attack on USC. As USC is still very much a HIGH END tier 1 program....

 

[WizardHawk]

The one to feel sorry for in this debate is you, dear friend. You haven't even come close to refuting a single fact. Alabama is still playing two current FCS schools and a really bad FBS team in the only games they truly control, yet again this season. Most SEC schools still schedule one good team and three patty cakes. Florida still hasn't scheduled a non-conference game outside of their state in 22 years.

Nope, you haven't refuted those facts, and never will, because unlike your opinionated rants, they are facts.

People don't refute them because indeed those are facts. However YOU ALWAYS fail to address the FACT that SEC teams play tougher schedules than BSU despite their poor OOC. They have REAL MEAT in their schedule while BSU has mystery spuge in their sandwich. This is what renders your endless rants over SEC crappy OOC schedules entirely moot.

Just admit that BSU needs to schedule more difficult OOC to be a legitimate top 10 team while SEC does not need to and be done with it.

Everyone who reads my posts know exactly where I stand, no if's no and's no but's. You are a reed driven by the wind. I pity any band-wagoner who cheers for a conference, and a mediocre one at that. Oh well, do have a good day.

How is the SEC mediocre when they hold the last 7 national titles? Yes, they schedule as weak as they can, but when it counts they win and no one has yet dethroned them. Hardly makes them mediocre.

You always blame the conferences and not the system. The OOC has been used by conferences to tweak the level of play for their teams depending on their goals. When the SEC has 4-5 of the top 10 teams in the country they can get away with simply terrible OOC games while the Pac needs to add some meat to theirs and any mid-major better pile it on if they want to be taken seriously. This isn't the fault of the SEC, nor is there any Illuminati type body working to keep the little guy down. It is what it is and almost no fan likes it for various reasons. Well, except the bama fans who probably think this system is about perfect.

It simply baffles me that any fan who claims to know college football can continually beat up on the teams winning the titles because they play really bad OOC games. It just defies logic to not see the 300lb gorilla in the room. THEY PLAY REAL TEAMS IN CONFERENCE. It just isn't that hard to get.

 

[USCDoom]

Ok, We get it. And I know what you are up to... USC is one of the top 2 or3 historically speaking of all time. IMO they are #1. There ya go.

But what does history of games played when most of us werent alive have to do with anything? Historically sure great teams... Harvard, Army, and Navy come to mind as great historic teams as well. What good is that now????

Just an FYI. We are in 2013... OK. As a fan of any CFB program you have to ask yourself, What have you done for me lately?

Rarely do CFB fans rest their heads on success from decades ago. Most CFB fans are living in the here and now ( say last 10-15 years of performance as a gauge for where that program is. ) Alot of the new age CFB fans will only give you the last 5 years of a resume to judge your program...

An appropriate quote from Danny Ainge....

" Larry Bird aint walking through that door"

What has Florida ever done without Tim Tebow? Look at Florida before and after he was there.

8-5
8-5
7-5
9-3
Tebow
Tebow
Tebow
Tebow
8-5
7-6
11-2

Take away Spurrier and Tebow and Florida has Nothing. Sure the Tebow years were Elite but the 7 years surrounding it were barely 2nd tier.

 

[WizardHawk]

Wait, going 11-2 in a SEC schedule = second tier to you? lolz

 

[BoiseStateFan27]

The best the MWC has barely beat the middle of the road team in the Pac last year as it was. Having them pair up more games would just end in a lot more blow outs. I honestly don't think BSU could beat even Oregon again. They aren't the team they were a few years ago and the ducks would be so hungry that it wouldn't shock me to see them run up 70 on the broncos.

Once you get past boise, the quality falls off fast. I'm not sure how many MWC teams would even beat Colorado or WSU.

MWC, Pac-12 partnership would never happen

as far as this last statement

Colorado State beat Colorado and they're one of the worst the MWC has to offer, also UNLV lost by 3(I think) to Washington State, UNLV is the next worst MWC team

 

[USCDoom]

Wait, going 11-2 in a SEC schedule = second tier to you? lolz

SEC schedule... .... ... ...

 

[smilesid]

Wiz,
Responding to your posts is like trying to explain things to that Saturday Night Live Character who talked and talked but knew nothing.

I was responding to geneh who is currently claiming ACC fan-dom. I have never disputed that the SEC is the best conference in football, which makes their practice of lining up cupcakes even more despicable. The top SEC teams could play anyone in the country and still be favored, but they still line up FCS teams by the dozen.

As to Boise, I've always wanted them to do better than they do, and have criticized them for putting UT Martin on the docket, for example. But I guess you missed those posts. Typical of you. When it comes to straining gnats and swallowing camels, you are one of a kind, Wiz.

But I also know how to do math, a skill you lack, apparently. Boise can't get 6 home games unless they can find teams willing to make a return trip to Boise, something that YOUR school has refused to do up until lately (and they still haven't actually done it yet, have they?).

I know, I know, join the chorus. "Play someone tough, Boise, just not us." Boise simply can't play SEC schools in game after game unless those cowards are willing to go on the road occasionally. Those teams will only do that when they have to which for most of them means once every other year or so. Florida hasn't done it in 22 years, unless you count those short trips across the state, where they still have a quarter of the seats. It will be a cold day when any of them ever make Boise. It's a matter of money, of course. But they also know odds. The home team always has the advantage, which is why 3/4 of their optional games are indeed at home.

That's not my opinion, that's simply what they do. I agree with you, they get away with it, but this doesn't make it right.

 

[smilesid]

MWC, Pac-12 partnership would never happen

as far as this last statement

Colorado State beat Colorado and they're one of the worst the MWC has to offer, also UNLV lost by 3(I think) to Washington State, UNLV is the next worst MWC team

Careful, pointing out actual games played by actual teams is highly disturbing to Wiz and our SEC fans. May we add that Wyoming, another horrible MWC team beat Tennessee in Nashville? And Auburn needed a last minute miracle with some friendly officiating to beat lowly Utah State in Auburn?

Don't bother these folks with facts, they are too busy expressing their opinions.

 

[WizardHawk]

Wiz,
Responding to your posts is like trying to explain things to that Saturday Night Live Character who talked and talked but knew nothing.

The day you actually respond to something you might be able to start making claims. Until then, these types of non answer responses show you have nothing of substance to add.

I was responding to geneh who is currently claiming ACC fan-dom. I have never disputed that the SEC is the best conference in football, which makes their practice of lining up cupcakes even more despicable. The top SEC teams could play anyone in the country and still be favored, but they still line up FCS teams by the dozen.

And scheduling tougher would increase their odds of losing without adding any reward. Would YOU give up a chance at playing for a title in the interest of having better games? Or would you tell your AD to schedule only as tough as is needed to give our team the best chance at a run? Don't bother answering because it will only make you look stupid.

As to Boise, I've always wanted them to do better than they do, and have criticized them for putting UT Martin on the docket, for example.

Sure, you say these things and then go on about how bad SEC schedules are and how unfair it would be for BSU to have to travel for all/most of their OOC to make up for it. You just can't have it both ways. Until your team joins a conference with enough in conference schedule meat to give your SoS a decent push your only option for getting on the natty stage is to take as many high quality OOC games as you can, even if ALL are road games. Just how it is. Deal with it.

But I also know how to do math, a skill you lack, apparently. Boise can't get 6 home games unless they can find teams willing to make a return trip to Boise, something that YOUR school has refused to do up until lately (and they still haven't actually done it yet, have they?).

No one cares if you get 6 home games. If BSU wants a run at a title then schedule 3 tough road games AND PROVE you belong there. PERIOD. If you want 6 home games then accept you won't get many high quality OOC games and thus no chance at a title run. THESE ARE YOUR ONLY TWO OPTIONS. So quit the constant drum beats.

As for UW, you once again insinuate that UW has refused to come to BSU and have no facts to back that up. There has never been a planned game for UW at BSU so there was nothing for them to back out of. You have no proof they will attempt to buy out and Sark is on record as saying he very much looks forward to playing there. That isn't enough to show they WANT that game? Again, UW has traveled to Nebraska, Oklahoma, LSU, Miami, etc... and has done so for decades. What makes you think BSU is so scary that they will back out?

I know, I know, join the chorus. "Play someone tough, Boise, just not us." Boise simply can't play SEC schools in game after game unless those cowards are willing to go on the road occasionally. Those teams will only do that when they have to which for most of them means once every other year or so. Florida hasn't done it in 22 years, unless you count those short trips across the state, where they still have a quarter of the seats. It will be a cold day when any of them ever make Boise. It's a matter of money, of course. But they also know odds. The home team always has the advantage, which is why 3/4 of their optional games are indeed at home.

Pssst, people have been telling you the answer for years and you just don't get it. Everyone else in college football gets it, but YOU.
They won't ever schedule tougher OOC if playing weak ass OOC still gets them championship runs. It's just that simple. To increase the difficulty of their schedule just to make some mid-majors feel warm and fuzzy would be insane.

That's not my opinion, that's simply what they do. I agree with you, they get away with it, but this doesn't make it right.

In order to make a fair system that the fans could really sink their teeth into the system would have to change and the top tier would have to break off from the rest of the FBS teams and all agree to only play each other, or at most allow just one non elite game per year. Further, each conference would have to have some kind of way to balance their schedules to make each conference at least close to the others in difficulty. And finally they would have to put all conference champions in a playoff.

There is simply no way to rework college football in a way that is 'right' in your eyes without also breaking away from the mid-majors and only playing each other which would end up pushing you out anyway. There is no way you can win here. This is college football.

 

[WizardHawk]

MWC, Pac-12 partnership would never happen

as far as this last statement

Colorado State beat Colorado and they're one of the worst the MWC has to offer, also UNLV lost by 3(I think) to Washington State, UNLV is the next worst MWC team

Fair enough. Bad teams are bad teams. Unlike Smiles and berkeley, I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong. Still, no one can debate the overall decrease in conference strength of schedule going from the Pac to the MWC. So maybe I overstated things, but the gist was still on point.

 

[WizardHawk]

Careful, pointing out actual games played by actual teams is highly disturbing to Wiz and our SEC fans. May we add that Wyoming, another horrible MWC team beat Tennessee in Nashville? And Auburn needed a last minute miracle with some friendly officiating to beat lowly Utah State in Auburn?

Don't bother these folks with facts, they are too busy expressing their opinions.

First of all, I have ALWAYS backed up my statements. 100% of the time. You sir spin away to another topic any time someone brings up your own words. You have NO honor of any kind.

As for bad teams beating teams above them, that happens every freaking week in football ffs. If you are trying to take that one step further and suggest those upset wins means either a) those MWC teams are then better than the teams they upset, or b) it means the MWC is better than their conference rankings suggest then you are once again out in left field. Upsets do not mean the team who won is better than the team who lost. They just mean they played better on that day. That's all you can ever get from any match up.

For someone who tries to tell everyone else how much you know about college football you sure seem to miss the basics quite often. Really makes you wonder.

 

[geneh_33]

The one to feel sorry for in this debate is you, dear friend. You haven't even come close to refuting a single fact. Alabama is still playing two current FCS schools and a really bad FBS team in the only games they truly control, yet again this season. Most SEC schools still schedule one good team and three patty cakes. Florida still hasn't scheduled a non-conference game outside of their state in 22 years.

Nope, you haven't refuted those facts, and never will, because unlike your opinionated rants, they are facts.

As to my opinions, I make no apologies. I'm a fan of my team. Unlike you, I don't switch loyalties as the winds change direction. Never have, never will.

I am no fan of the MWC, I've criticized their leadership loudly. Thompson is the biggest tool of all the major conference chiefs. I hate Slive, but he is a genius and is in no small part responsible for the conference's enormous success. You? No one can tell, you shift opinions and teams with every changing year.

Everyone who reads my posts know exactly where I stand, no if's no and's no but's. You are a reed driven by the wind. I pity any band-wagoner who cheers for a conference, and a mediocre one at that. Oh well, do have a good day.

That is one of the lamest comeback posts I have ever read. You skirt the subject of my posts with a bunch of BS like you always do.

Yeah, everyone who reads your posts know that you are a blue-brained brainwashed idiot.

Your "Straw Man" attacks on me are pitiful and untrue. Not even a good try. Just keep skirting the issue with lame brain untrue attacks on me and my conference as usual. Some of your compatriots are bound to buy it, as usual. Oh well, when it's all you've got you have little choice, I guess.

 

[geneh_33]

Wow, this is just like old time on CBS. Once it gets going it never stops.

WE tell you the truth and don't want to hear it. Same ole, same ole.

 

[wazzu31]

Fair enough. Bad teams are bad teams. Unlike Smiles and berkeley, I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong. Still, no one can debate the overall decrease in conference strength of schedule going from the Pac to the MWC. So maybe I overstated things, but the gist was still on point.

Quit trying to dog us, we beat UNLV by 8 jesus. And with a real coach the year prior we beat them by 52.

 

[WizardHawk]

Quit trying to dog us, we beat UNLV by 8 jesus. And with a real coach the year prior we beat them by 52.

Wait, so you are going to deny the cougs have been among the worst in the Pac over the last several years? WSU has won 12 games over the last FIVE seasons. Oregon has won that in like 1.2 seasons? If I missed another team that belongs between WSU and Colorado by all means fill me in. In my book Colorado is the bottom and WSU often keeps them company. Just how it is.

 

[smilesid]

Wait, so you are going to deny the cougs have been among the worst in the Pac over the last several years? WSU has won 12 games over the last FIVE seasons. Oregon has won that in like 1.2 seasons? If I missed another team that belongs between WSU and Colorado by all means fill me in. In my book Colorado is the bottom and WSU often keeps them company. Just how it is.

But they somehow manage to beat your Huskies. Ouch.

 

[t0nyintransit]

Wait, so you are going to deny the cougs have been among the worst in the Pac over the last several years? WSU has won 12 games over the last FIVE seasons. Oregon has won that in like 1.2 seasons? If I missed another team that belongs between WSU and Colorado by all means fill me in. In my book Colorado is the bottom and WSU often keeps them company. Just how it is.

Lol, and in the past 5 years, UW has been keeping them company!

 

[WizardHawk]

Tony, ummm not so much. UW had a bad year in 08 and since won 5, 7, 7 and 7. That's more than double the wins of WSU despite one of those years being winless lol. I'd say UW has been middle of the pac and there isn't any good argument against that.

Smiles, you can laugh at yourself (as we all do toward you anyway), but not sure it's as big of a deal to lose to a rival who is down as you think. I do find it ironic you want to go there and yet still claim it was a quality win over UW the very next game. lol. You guys are something else. I mean do you even think before you post that stuff?

 

[wazzu31]

Tony, ummm not so much. UW had a bad year in 08 and since won 5, 7, 7 and 7. That's more than double the wins of WSU despite one of those years being winless lol. I'd say UW has been middle of the pac and there isn't any good argument against that.

Smiles, you can laugh at yourself (as we all do toward you anyway), but not sure it's as big of a deal to lose to a rival who is down as you think. I do find it ironic you want to go there and yet still claim it was a quality win over UW the very next game. lol. You guys are something else. I mean do you even think before you post that stuff?

A bad year? You guys sunk to a depths that no Pac school has ever sunk. Yes we suck, have a horrible coach but we still beat UNLV by more than 3 as that guy posted. That was my post, not that we are some juggernaut. Christ, Mike Leach is such a horrible coach, he lost the fucking Colorado game when we had a 3 touchdown lead.

Under Leach, I'd put Colorado 11th and us 12th though. We still have beaten UW with every statistical worst WSU team in history though. 84, 08, and 12. Guess that's why under Leach's contract he gets a bonus for beating the Fuskies more than any Coug coach has made in a season .