Game Thread: MNF- Seattle returns to the Big Apple. Komo/ESPN/CTV 2?/ TSN 8:15-5:15

[Sharkonabicycle]

He had every intention to be.

I was watching NFL Live and they were breaking down the pick 6.

There was a Giant free in the EZ.

He threw an IPAD at the assistant or some other guy, but yah it was basically the tone... he tried to show something to Jones and Jones glanced and went back to his own IPAD and Daboll was just done.

On that play specifically, I know he'd been sacked a lot but on that particular play the OL was doing a fine job blocking. We didn't have any major pressure on him. I think Daboll was trying to say, "Look, the play was developing, there's a guy towards the back of the end zone, your guy you were throwing to hasn't even finished the route yet and you threw behind him... why the fuck are you rushing the throw?"

I mean Witherspoon made the play (as he should've) and got the TD, but end of day it was just a shit throw by a QB that nowhere in the world deserved $40M per year let alone 3/5 of which was guaranteed. Giants paid the wrong person. I think they were hoping Jones could improve every year like Allen did but doesn't appear to be the case. He had 5 INTs last year and 2 fumbles. At least he kept the TOs down. This year? 6 INTs and 1 fumble through 4 games.... Christ... I mean Geno is in a similar boat with an OLINE that is in a WORSE state, and I think a couple games he's played poor this year, but he's not turning the ball over like that (or taking 10 fuckin' sacks).

 

[MrS]

I dont think drew lock is ever going to be the answer at QB and while geno has a very good arm he makes bonehead plays too often and doesnt have the IT factor we need.

however, the 24 draft QB class is looking ridiculously deep right now. we will probably need to take a QB in the first two rounds and let him sit a .5-1 years behind geno. who that will be I have no idea at this point, but it seems like a necessity.

 

[Screamin12th]

Great. And if Lock comes in an shits the bed, then what? Go back to Geno? You are putting a lot of faith in Lock being 2-6 with one flair pass with having 40 yards of YAC.

I swear it's like some of you think this team is 0-4 right now.

If Drew comes in and shits the bed then we know he isn't the answer. Right? Can't say that right now. When he came here he was young unproven and needed a lot of growing up. He spent all last season watching He spent his last year in Denver watching mostly and all last season again on the sidelines. For a young "Not ready" QB that's the best thing they can do. We have to see if there is something there because in the preseason the team actually functioned on offense with him out there at a different level than when Geno was out there for his VERY limited playing time. Hell Last year the Offense for the most part looked better with Lock out there than Geno but then he struggled. Geno isn't the answer, you can win with him in 20-14 type games but we don't have the defense ( Normally ) to play those type games. Our offense is LOADED so we need a gun slinger that can throw darts and read a defense not someone that can't read a defense pre-snap and only goes through his first progression. I am just sick and tired of seeing guys wide open and Geno never see's them. Yes we have a better view than he does so yes he will miss open guys some times but it's not just some times with him it's almost every other play.

 

[Screamin12th]

Yah I was curious to see what Lock would do last night since Geno seemed a bit asleep (but our OL was in shambles lol, we really need the bye week to hopefully get Cross, Lewis, Haynes back. I think Lucas will be out until week 8 or 10) but Lock didn't really do much either lol. The Fant play was ALL Fant, sure Lock completed the throw, but let's get real here. That was a Jimmy Garporlrorlrorl special (short pass, receiver does all the work). Outside of that he was 1-5 with hardly any yards and 2 of those misses were horrible throws to guys WIDE open that any GOOD QB on his game would make.

Yes but the thing is Fant was wide open and Drew got it to him, tired of seeing guys wide open and Geno never finds them. Our offense is loaded!

 

[Screamin12th]

I dont think drew lock is ever going to be the answer at QB and while geno has a very good arm he makes bonehead plays too often and doesnt have the IT factor we need.

however, the 24 draft QB class is looking ridiculously deep right now. we will probably need to take a QB in the first two rounds and let him sit a .5-1 years behind geno. who that will be I have no idea at this point, but it seems like a necessity.

I don't know if Drew Lock will ever be anything but his arm talent is better than Geno's. He has touch and power. He can throw a 50 yard pass thats never more than 10 feet off the ground. What we don't know is if he has the ability to go through his progression and in his limited time he does seem to get to his 3rd WR WAY more often than Geno and can find the OPEN GUYS. I was hoping we would see Lock for the rest of the 2nd half, we have to see what he has got. We might be able to hold off on taking a QB if he has matured the last couple of years but we will never know unless he plays.

 

[Screamin12th]

Adams we've talked about with the concussion but even Carroll said he should be good to go for Cincy.

Over/Under 1 or 2 Quarters before he is hurt in the Cincy game? I will take the over this time but i dont think he will be out there by the time the game ends.

I DON'T WANT ADAMS TO SUCK! But i have accepted it. Adams is like a Boxer that thinks he can still box and thinks he is great and one of the best ever yet he keeps getting knocked out in the first round.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Over/Under 1 or 2 Quarters before he is hurt in the Cincy game? I will take the over this time but i dont think he will be out there by the time the game ends.

I DON'T WANT ADAMS TO SUCK! But i have accepted it.

Yah I don't know what to say, man. It's not a tear or a break or anything, it's just concussion protocol.

I feel bad for the guy but like most of us on this forum ya can't help but kind of laugh at the situation with how ridiculous it's gotten. He was playing good to start the game.

I dunno man... march him out there against Cincy, I have no doubt he can play good still.. and ya just gotta hope for the best. If he tore something else I'd be less optimistic... concussions can happen to anyone.

 

[MrS]

I don't know if Drew Lock will ever be anything but his arm talent is better than Geno's. He has touch and power. He can throw a 50 yard pass thats never more than 10 feet off the ground. What we don't know is if he has the ability to go through his progression and in his limited time he does seem to get to his 3rd WR WAY more often than Geno and can find the OPEN GUYS. I was hoping we would see Lock for the rest of the 2nd half, we have to see what he has got. We might be able to hold off on taking a QB if he has matured the last couple of years but we will never know unless he plays.

I dont think lock has the accuracy and thats where geno really wins over him.

 

[Screamin12th]

I dont think lock has the accuracy and thats where geno really wins over him.

Yes Geno is more accurate, He had that in College but Lock was more raw than Geno and Improved his accuracy every year. Thats why I want to see Lock play more. I dont think he has reached his ceiling but i think Geno has. Locks problem is when he has to move his feet his accuracy goes way down. That's something you can improve with Practice and experience. He just has to do it more and he is athletic enough to run around. Geno is or i should say WAS a better Athlete in college but he is also turning 33 on the 10th of this month, Drew Lock Turns 27 in November.

 

[WizardHawk]

I'm not willing to say this team has potential to be a deep playoff team yet, but they have bounced back from that opening day disaster.

Those up here bitching are missing this team is 3-1 and has won despite massive OL injuries.

Geno is who we have. Even when he hasn't played at his best he hasn't cost the team. The danger of Lock is his history of causing very inopportune turnovers. He's not going to create wins, but he will do the basic parts of his job.

Don't get the hate toward JSN given how early this is. He too is not fumbling or hurting the team. I won't diss a rookie less than 1/4 of the way into their first season. Just seems dumb.

They survived a couple of ugly games and got the win. Let's get some OL back, see if Adams can stay upright for more than the 1st quarter of a game, and give the team a chance to improve.

 

[Screamin12th]

Geno is who we have. Even when he hasn't played at his best he hasn't cost the team. The danger of Lock is his history of causing very inopportune turnovers. He's not going to create wins, but he will do the basic parts of his job.

That has been Geno's MO his WHOLE NFL career except last season, did you forget that? When Wilson was Hurt Geno came in and lost 2 games for us because he had boneheaded turnovers that costed us a chance to win, Up until this past season he had more TO than TD's. He had 15 Turnovers last year and could have easily had over 20 but so many balls Doinked off peoples hands it was crazy. Here is something that struck a chord with me this offseason, it hits the nail on the head and drives home the point of something that is not skill related but purely based on luck.

Hugh Millen raised an interesting point on KJR on Friday. He pointed to a stat provided by PFF listing ‘turnover worthy plays’ by each quarterback. Smith had the second most in the NFL, just behind Josh Allen. Millen also pointed out that Allen had far more ‘explosive’ passing plays and a lot more rushing yards to compensate for his erraticism.

Building on the point, he then noted that when looking at the top-10 quarterbacks — on average 80.6% of their turnover worthy plays had resulted in actual turnovers. In comparison, Geno Smith saw only 48% of his turnover worthy plays actually result in an interception. That's not sustainable.

That’s staggering.

If he’d thrown the 80.6% average like the rest of the QB’s in the top-10, he would’ve had 25 picks. Even if he’d had a still well below average 65% — he would’ve led the league in turnovers.

 

[Screamin12th]

Back in early 2022 I wanted the Hawks to trade for Trevor Lawrence even after having one of the worst rookie QB seasons ever. I KNEW he would do better with better talent around him and I had ZERO Doubts about it. I also felt that the Jags would have shipped him off for a LATE 2nd round pick and think it was a steal ( the steal would have been the team that got him now). I think he would have took our offense to another level. Not saying he is a HoF QB but he is a capable QB with loads of talent and just needed some help. We had/have that talent and now he is looked at as one of the better "YOUNG" QB's out there.

Hell even Baker Mayfield is an upgrade over Geno in my eyes. He can be erratic but his high is Much higher than Genos and his lows are about the same as Geno's lows. No way in hell would i trade for Mayfield but when he was available I would have taken a shot with him.

 

[WizardHawk]

Either that wasn't last Friday, or he repeated the same thing from a spot he did around the end of last year. Milen is very opinionated on a lot of guys. He was relentless on Wilson even during the 2 seasons they went to the playoffs. It doesn't mean anything.

We are supposed to endlessly bitch about him because he made bad turnovers when he got into games backing up Russ? Really?

Hate who you want. I won't stop you. It's not going to make anyone else change their minds.

It was only a month ago I was accused of being a Geno hater when I called out his poor play in game 1. I call it like I see it and have no problem dumping on him when he has bad games. I just also don't have a problem either giving him credit for good play, or at least not arbitrarily blaming any/all offensive problems on only him when the patchwork of broken players in front of him is the issue.

 

[blstoker]

I'm not gonna call for Geno's benching, but he hasn't exactly been lights out this season. He has missed open receivers, he has been lucky on at least 3 passes that should have been picked but weren't and he's back to 5 yard/catch in the air. He is struggling, and not just because his line has been tore up - though that definitely hasn't helped (except - they've played extremely well for the situation they are in). I hope he plays better when we get our line healthy, cause Geno failing makes it more likely the Seahawks fail.

 

[Screamin12th]

Either that wasn't last Friday, or he repeated the same thing from a spot he did around the end of last year. Milen is very opinionated on a lot of guys. He was relentless on Wilson even during the 2 seasons they went to the playoffs. It doesn't mean anything.

We are supposed to endlessly bitch about him because he made bad turnovers when he got into games backing up Russ? Really?

Hate who you want. I won't stop you. It's not going to make anyone else change their minds.

It was only a month ago I was accused of being a Geno hater when I called out his poor play in game 1. I call it like I see it and have no problem dumping on him when he has bad games. I just also don't have a problem either giving him credit for good play, or at least not arbitrarily blaming any/all offensive problems on only him when the patchwork of broken players in front of him is the issue.

It was this year after the 2022 season.

I bring up what Geno did back then because its what he was before and had he not been so very lucky it would have been what he was last season. He had a Great year and you need luck even if you are good to have great years. Last season Geno was more lucky than good. This year he wont have that same luck. I think the Hawks have enough talent to help carry Geno but it's tough to carry a QB. Geno can be a good QB when he doesn't get in his own way. We saw him getting into his own way this last game, he had an above average game for him against the panthers, His best game you can expect from him is his Lions game. We could see 2 or maybe 3 of those this whole season but we will see more games like the two against the Giants and Rams. 2 stinkers one above average and one very good game out of four. His above average games we might go 50/50 in and we got lucky that the defense showed up to play a historically great game ( 11 sacks ) against a Giants team that only averages 11.5 points a game ranked 32nd in the NFL and has a -8 TO ratio in 4 fooking games. Lets not forget they have the 30th ranked Defense, I expect the talent on this Offense to do better than they did against a defense that is worse than the Hawks defense in PPG against.

This team will go where Geno Takes them, we will see how that works out. I hope the playoffs and a superbowl but thats because i am a diehard hawks fan but i am not blinded by my fandom.

 

[seattlefan75]

Let's also remember that the OL we had last night was backup LT, backup RT, backup rookie RG, Starting center moved to LG, backup rookie Center.

So zero starters playing in their normal position. 2 rookies playing. That's an awful lot of change against a pretty competent Giants DL, to the point that I would say that is their best position group by a wide margin.

Compare how we played to how the Giants banged up OL played.

This is true I will give you that.

 

[seattlefan75]

I mean Jalen Carter looks good in Philly, PFF has him graded as a 92 or so (Witherspoon around 80 after his lights out performance last night).

Only issue with Carter is:
1) He's playing on a fairly stacked DL at the moment.
2) He's playing < 50% of the snaps so he's basically always fresh when he's on the field.

Witherspoon on the other hand is playing 100% of the snaps.

So yah, I'd like to see more of Witherspoon before I crown him and stop whining about the draft pick, but he's looked great in the 3 games. Carter has looked good too, though.

Well it doesn't have to be a competition of who will be the better rookie but I think the argument of we should have passed on Witherspoon for Carter should be more and more minimized.

 

[flyerhawk]

If Drew comes in and shits the bed then we know he isn't the answer. Right? Can't say that right now. When he came here he was young unproven and needed a lot of growing up. He spent all last season watching He spent his last year in Denver watching mostly and all last season again on the sidelines. For a young "Not ready" QB that's the best thing they can do. We have to see if there is something there because in the preseason the team actually functioned on offense with him out there at a different level than when Geno was out there for his VERY limited playing time. Hell Last year the Offense for the most part looked better with Lock out there than Geno but then he struggled. Geno isn't the answer, you can win with him in 20-14 type games but we don't have the defense ( Normally ) to play those type games. Our offense is LOADED so we need a gun slinger that can throw darts and read a defense not someone that can't read a defense pre-snap and only goes through his first progression. I am just sick and tired of seeing guys wide open and Geno never see's them. Yes we have a better view than he does so yes he will miss open guys some times but it's not just some times with him it's almost every other play.

So the team benches Geno and start Lock. And he struggles mightily and the team loses the next 2. What then? Tell the team "Hey sorry about that. We thought it was time to experiment at the most important position on the field after repeatedly telling you that Geno was our guy"?

 

[flyerhawk]

Yes but the thing is Fant was wide open and Drew got it to him, tired of seeing guys wide open and Geno never finds them. Our offense is loaded!

And he WILDLY missed to 2 wide open receivers on the 2 plays beforehand. The pass to Fant wasn't even his best pass. His pass to Metcalf was.

Maybe had Lock come in and looked super sharp, I could see your argument. But he didn't. He completed 2 of 6 passes. Had the Giants defender actually tackled Fant it would have been 2 for 6 for about 25 yards.

 

[flyerhawk]

I'm not gonna call for Geno's benching, but he hasn't exactly been lights out this season. He has missed open receivers, he has been lucky on at least 3 passes that should have been picked but weren't and he's back to 5 yard/catch in the air. He is struggling, and not just because his line has been tore up - though that definitely hasn't helped (except - they've played extremely well for the situation they are in). I hope he plays better when we get our line healthy, cause Geno failing makes it more likely the Seahawks fail.

There may be a time when we have to look at Drew Lock. But now is not that time.

We are 3-1 despite having a complete patchwork of players on the OL. We are 3-1 despite our defense being pretty bad for the first 3 games.

And I am absolutely baffled by the people that are criticizing Geno for throwing it short. There are many things you can say about Geno, but an unwillingness to throw it deep is not one of them. But you need time to throw it deep. When Geno had time against the Lions and Panthers he was more than willing to throw it down the field. He didn't have much time in the pocket on Monday. You could even say that he was pressured almost as much as DJ was.

The Giants DL has some talent. Dexter Lawrence is one of the 5 best DTs in the game. Leonard Williams is very good. Thibadeaux is still young but shows signs of being a top level pass rusher. Which is why the Giants front 7 was all rated highly, especially when it came to pass rush.

Maybe lets see how the Seahawks do when most of their OL is back.