Game Thread: MNF- Seattle returns to the Big Apple. Komo/ESPN/CTV 2?/ TSN 8:15-5:15

[redskinsfan1963]

He had every intention to be.

I was watching NFL Live and they were breaking down the pick 6.

There was a Giant free in the EZ.

stared at the reciever the whole way while waller was wide open.you,d think after playing nfl qb a few seasons he learn that,s stupid in the nfl.the seatlle cbs said they watched him after the game.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

It was this year after the 2022 season.

I bring up what Geno did back then because its what he was before and had he not been so very lucky it would have been what he was last season. He had a Great year and you need luck even if you are good to have great years. Last season Geno was more lucky than good. This year he wont have that same luck. I think the Hawks have enough talent to help carry Geno but it's tough to carry a QB. Geno can be a good QB when he doesn't get in his own way. We saw him getting into his own way this last game, he had an above average game for him against the panthers, His best game you can expect from him is his Lions game. We could see 2 or maybe 3 of those this whole season but we will see more games like the two against the Giants and Rams. 2 stinkers one above average and one very good game out of four. His above average games we might go 50/50 in and we got lucky that the defense showed up to play a historically great game ( 11 sacks ) against a Giants team that only averages 11.5 points a game ranked 32nd in the NFL and has a -8 TO ratio in 4 fooking games. Lets not forget they have the 30th ranked Defense, I expect the talent on this Offense to do better than they did against a defense that is worse than the Hawks defense in PPG against.

This team will go where Geno Takes them, we will see how that works out. I hope the playoffs and a superbowl but thats because i am a diehard hawks fan but i am not blinded by my fandom.

I get what you are saying Screamin and you are right about Geno not having the "IT' factor or being a long term answer. The problem is the team has no alternative. Lock is not developmental, he has flashes but is just not a good pro QB. He has never been consistently accurate and will not develop in the way Josh Allen did. Too many fans out there see what Josh Allen did and what Jalen Hurts has started to do and think any player can be that. Those two are the outliers and bad accuracy and decision making are rarely fixable. Don't get me wrong. I like Drew Lock and think he can be a serviceable back up for a long time in this league but the Hawks are in a place where there really is no other answer at the position. Had they managed to land a top 2 pick and get Stroud, then yeah, maybe things could be different but as for going forward, they aren't going to have another high draft pick so it is what it is. Draft someone 2nd or 3rd round and develop would be okay but reaching for QBs in the draft is a stupid proposition that we saw on full display on Monday night with the team across the field.
Considering how young our team is and where we really all thought they be last year and now, I think we need to step back and let the team develop. See where we are when we have to play the big boys and see how we perform and continue to grow. Expecting them to be deep play-off contenders at this stage is a bit much considering their youth. No point in belaboring the point about Geno. We get it and can all see it but he is the best alternative right now that we have. Pete and Jon are building this roster in a good way. All we can do is hope they can find that piece at QB but it's much easier said than done. Even if they do, it's not a guarantee. Cincy did it and now are looking at a disaster due to injury. Only 6 or 7 teams can say they have found it and of those, only 1 has the championships to go with it.

 

[flyerhawk]

I get what you are saying Screamin and you are right about Geno not having the "IT' factor or being a long term answer. The problem is the team has no alternative. Lock is not developmental, he has flashes but is just not a good pro QB. He has never been consistently accurate and will not develop in the way Josh Allen did. Too many fans out there see what Josh Allen did and what Jalen Hurts has started to do and think any player can be that. Those two are the outliers and bad accuracy and decision making are rarely fixable. Don't get me wrong. I like Drew Lock and think he can be a serviceable back up for a long time in this league but the Hawks are in a place where there really is no other answer at the position. Had they managed to land a top 2 pick and get Stroud, then yeah, maybe things could be different but as for going forward, they aren't going to have another high draft pick so it is what it is. Draft someone 2nd or 3rd round and develop would be okay but reaching for QBs in the draft is a stupid proposition that we saw on full display on Monday night with the team across the field.
Considering how young our team is and where we really all thought they be last year and now, I think we need to step back and let the team develop. See where we are when we have to play the big boys and see how we perform and continue to grow. Expecting them to be deep play-off contenders at this stage is a bit much considering their youth. No point in belaboring the point about Geno. We get it and can all see it but he is the best alternative right now that we have. Pete and Jon are building this roster in a good way. All we can do is hope they can find that piece at QB but it's much easier said than done. Even if they do, it's not a guarantee. Cincy did it and now are looking at a disaster due to injury. Only 6 or 7 teams can say they have found it and of those, only 1 has the championships to go with it.

I think it's safe to say that we would all prefer to have Patrick Mahomes or Justin Herbert or Joe Burrow rather than Geno Smith.

But it's lot easier said than done to get one of them.

Geno is who we have. If he falls on his face, which he most certainly has not done so far this season, then we move on from him. But any scenario where this team finishes with someone other than Geno being QB at the end of the years is an almost certain disaster of a season.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I get what you are saying Screamin and you are right about Geno not having the "IT' factor or being a long term answer. The problem is the team has no alternative. Lock is not developmental, he has flashes but is just not a good pro QB. He has never been consistently accurate and will not develop in the way Josh Allen did. Too many fans out there see what Josh Allen did and what Jalen Hurts has started to do and think any player can be that. Those two are the outliers and bad accuracy and decision making are rarely fixable. Don't get me wrong. I like Drew Lock and think he can be a serviceable back up for a long time in this league but the Hawks are in a place where there really is no other answer at the position. Had they managed to land a top 2 pick and get Stroud, then yeah, maybe things could be different but as for going forward, they aren't going to have another high draft pick so it is what it is. Draft someone 2nd or 3rd round and develop would be okay but reaching for QBs in the draft is a stupid proposition that we saw on full display on Monday night with the team across the field.
Considering how young our team is and where we really all thought they be last year and now, I think we need to step back and let the team develop. See where we are when we have to play the big boys and see how we perform and continue to grow. Expecting them to be deep play-off contenders at this stage is a bit much considering their youth. No point in belaboring the point about Geno. We get it and can all see it but he is the best alternative right now that we have. Pete and Jon are building this roster in a good way. All we can do is hope they can find that piece at QB but it's much easier said than done. Even if they do, it's not a guarantee. Cincy did it and now are looking at a disaster due to injury. Only 6 or 7 teams can say they have found it and of those, only 1 has the championships to go with it.

I actually to some degree think what Seattle and San Fran are doing is going to be the new NFL if these insane QB contracts continue. You're seeing QBs with major flags getting paid ridiculous amounts these days (Watson, Wilson, Jones, Murray). Burrow got paid after tweaking himself in training camp and now looks like shit. I'm sure he'll rebound but who knows? He got paid after the injury.

Anyways, San Fran and Seattle have gone the route of, find a game manager QB. A decent guy, serviceable but is not a 'take over' guy... pay him DECENTLY (but not absurdly) and just build up everything around him. Everyone says Purdy is great, no he's not... he's okay, but the team around him is insane. Defense is nuts, good run game, great receivers, top 3 NFL TE... how can you not succeed? Carroll is doing the same thing in Seattle, the only difference is our defense isn't there yet and our entire OL is injured lol.

I think San Fran has ZERO intention of paying Purdy $40M+ a year. They'll just move on from him to someone else that's cheap and likely take a HAUL of picks in the process. Look at Jimmy Garporrlrorlrorl. He's done fuck all and has 6 INTs already this season. I think Seattle is going to do the exact same thing with Geno. Just draft someone in the 2nd or 3rd or find someone in free agency and plug/play. IF Cross/Lucas get healthy and pan out, and JSN pulls his mopey head out of his ass... the offense will be fine. And then the defense hopefully will come together. Everyone keeps saying (WalterFootball/various sites) Seattle needs to invest more in pass rush. The absolute fuck are these people talking about? Hall (pass rusher), Reed (pass rusher), Jones (pass rusher), Mafe, I guess throw Witherspoon in there as well who nearly notched 3 sacks... it's all they've been drafting/picking up the last 2 seasons.

Sure there will always be a top QB taken because end of day, that is the most important position on the field and probably the hardest position in ALL of sports. Also you get em' on the cheap for 4 years. IF you get a Mahomes/Rodgers, etc. great... sure pay em' because they are THAT good... but that's a pipe dream in most cases. Let's also not forget that Mahomes had an ALL STAR coaching staff with regards to QB and offenses. Andy Reid is probably the best offensively minded coach in NFL history.

Also, Carroll (and Shanny) have ALWAYS wanted a 'yes man' QB... they don't want some top 10 QB going rogue thinking they are the shit and doing their own thing. They want control over their QB and "You run the fuckin' plays we call and do what I say." That's hard with a highly paid QB. It CAN work, but it can backfire as well, which is exactly what we saw with Jones on MNF. Daboll was just done with him. And that's exactly why Wilson was traded. Carroll was done with Wilson's bullshit too. Geno runs the offense exactly like Carroll wants. And frankly it works. The offense was not the reason we went 9-8 last year.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

I agree Shark. What Shanahan and Lynch have shown is that building the roster has much more long term success and as long as the QB doesn't fuck it up, you can win. Their problem with JimmyG was that he would inexplicably do some stupid shit at the worst time. Aside from that, he could run the offense and not have to be paid top dollar. IIRC, San Fran was paying him about middle of the pack. They can ride Purdy for this year and 2 more on the insanely cheap and than make a decision. They can FT him or whatever they want. He will likely never see top dollar because Bosa, CMC, Deebo, Kittle, Williams are already eating up most of their pie.
As for our boys, this influx of youth we have been able to get in large part to moving off of Russ gives this team a huge head start on rebuilding a winning formula. You really can't argue with the direction and it's not like we paid Geno some ridiculous amount of money that we can't escape from if things go bad. Get the roster set up in a way that's sustainable long term and draft a QB in middle rounds that you can develop and plug into the system and you can still win in this league. I think too many teams are looking for the shiny new toy and lose sight of the big picture. I mean, yeah, when a Caleb Williams comes along, you don't pass that up but reaching for the Anthony Richardson's and Trey Lance's and Zach Wilson's and hoping for the next Josh Allen is likely going to backfire more often than not.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I agree Shark. What Shanahan and Lynch have shown is that building the roster has much more long term success and as long as the QB doesn't fuck it up, you can win. Their problem with JimmyG was that he would inexplicably do some stupid shit at the worst time. Aside from that, he could run the offense and not have to be paid top dollar. IIRC, San Fran was paying him about middle of the pack. They can ride Purdy for this year and 2 more on the insanely cheap and than make a decision. They can FT him or whatever they want. He will likely never see top dollar because Bosa, CMC, Deebo, Kittle, Williams are already eating up most of their pie.
As for our boys, this influx of youth we have been able to get in large part to moving off of Russ gives this team a huge head start on rebuilding a winning formula. You really can't argue with the direction and it's not like we paid Geno some ridiculous amount of money that we can't escape from if things go bad. Get the roster set up in a way that's sustainable long term and draft a QB in middle rounds that you can develop and plug into the system and you can still win in this league. I think too many teams are looking for the shiny new toy and lose sight of the big picture. I mean, yeah, when a Caleb Williams comes along, you don't pass that up but reaching for the Anthony Richardson's and Trey Lance's and Zach Wilson's and hoping for the next Josh Allen is likely going to backfire more often than not.

I think in 2018 Jimmy Garporlrorlrol was the 4th highest paid QB. I mean let's be honest, it helps the 49ers hit huge on a ton of the players they've drafted over the years... my Purdy comment really goes to the fact they just let Jimmy walk, let Trey walk, and went with Purdy who from what I've seen is a game manager at best. Purdy in no way deserves a $40M+ contract. Everyone will say, "Oh but he won the playoffs/Super Bowl, etc!" No, the team did. VERY much like Russell Wilson... Russell Wilson is likely a HOFer and the best QB Seattle ever had, but the team won that Super Bowl. Russell could've taken his pants off after the first quarter and started cheerleading...

That aside, the whole Anthony Richardson thing would've been REALLY interesting if he'd fallen to us. Rumors were Seattle was super interested in him, but that's all it is... rumors, and hearsay, which I consider inadmissible when we're really talking. If he was REALLY our guy, we would've moved up for him I imagine. I think Seattle was targeting Witherspoon 100% from the get go... I'm warming up to the pick, but I'm not ready to eat the full crow just yet.

 

[MrS]

Get the roster set up in a way that's sustainable long term and draft a QB in middle round

2024 is loaded at QB we may legitimately be able to get a good one in the mid to lat first round.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

2024 is loaded at QB we may legitimately be able to get a good one in the mid to lat first round.

Yeah, maybe if things fall into place but every time I hear about deep QB classes and loaded, there is always at least a couple who don't live up to the hype. After those top 2-3, which will be gone in the top 5, it becomes more of a crap shoot, imo. If it's the best player on the board and we are set with other positions, then yeah, go for it.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yeah, maybe if things fall into place but every time I hear about deep QB classes and loaded, there is always at least a couple who don't live up to the hype. After those top 2-3, which will be gone in the top 5, it becomes more of a crap shoot, imo. If it's the best player on the board and we are set with other positions, then yeah, go for it.

It's pretty rare for a consensus top level QB to fall to the late 1st. Even rarer for that player to actually turn out to be good.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

It's pretty rare for a consensus top level QB to fall to the late 1st. Even rarer for that player to actually turn out to be good.

I think we may trade back pending how late we are and I can very much see two defensive picks back to back. I would love Trotter out of Clemson, and I see Seattle 100% going for Cole Bishop in the 1st or 2nd. Cole is a downhill safety, heavy for his size (if he can add 5-10 lbs that'd be great), plays VERY much like Adams with a lot of QB pressure. I think both Diggs and Adams are gone after 2023/24 (maybe they keep Adams one more year, but Diggs has looked HORRIBLE, and Adams will be gone the year after anyway). Bishop is not as good at wrapping up as Witherspoon, but VERY much a ball hawk mentality and hey, Witherspoon can show him some stuff.

That's my prediction anyway. I don't think we sniff QB until the 3rd. I think Carroll barring the rest of the season is perfectly fine with Geno.

The offense (barring injury) is set IMO. Fant might be gone but whatever, you still have most of the unit together. You've invested a lot in the offensive line who is all back next season. Walker/Charbs, Lockett/Metcalf/JSN all back... there's really not a lot to do there. You need to shore up safety (which we've been HORRIBLE at this year) and DL/ILB with Wags likely retiring.

 

[Screamin12th]

So the team benches Geno and start Lock. And he struggles mightily and the team loses the next 2. What then? Tell the team "Hey sorry about that. We thought it was time to experiment at the most important position on the field after repeatedly telling you that Geno was our guy"?

No that is not what i said. If Geno Plays Badly they should pull the trigger and put Lock in. Next week Start Geno. We have to see what Lock has and it's really to bad that Geno just didn't sit out for the rest of the Giants game.

 

[Screamin12th]

And he WILDLY missed to 2 wide open receivers on the 2 plays beforehand. The pass to Fant wasn't even his best pass. His pass to Metcalf was.

Maybe had Lock come in and looked super sharp, I could see your argument. But he didn't. He completed 2 of 6 passes. Had the Giants defender actually tackled Fant it would have been 2 for 6 for about 25 yards.

Yep but HE SAW THEM, Geno doesn't.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yep but HE SAW THEM, Geno doesn't.

You have a particularly bad case of fan love of the backup QB.

Makes me think about Clipboard Jesus and how so many fans absolutely thought he was the answers, especially after the Giants game.

I was at the game and I sure as heck didn't see all these wide open receivers that you say Geno missed. I DID see Geno being constantly harassed by the Giants DL.

Are you talking about in the 2nd half when the Seahawks were doing their usual protect the ball/burn the clock?

 

[Screamin12th]

You have a particularly bad case of fan love of the backup QB.

Makes me think about Clipboard Jesus and how so many fans absolutely thought he was the answers, especially after the Giants game.

I was at the game and I sure as heck didn't see all these wide open receivers that you say Geno missed. I DID see Geno being constantly harassed by the Giants DL.

Are you talking about in the 2nd half when the Seahawks were doing their usual protect the ball/burn the clock?

I don't love Lock LMAO you try to turn this into some vendetta against Geno or some kind of man crush on Lock. When Geno Sucks ass i want to see Lock play it's that simple. Lets see what he has to offer. He looked 100% better this preseason than he did last preseason and looked to have matured in his ability to read defenses and going through his progressions. It was night and day different AND he looked better than Geno did out there in Preseason so why not Yank the starter when he is sucking ass? Is that so hard to understand?

The more i try to explain it the more i feel some of you have delusions about Geno as some Top Tier QB. Geno has been out performed this season By rookies AND Baker Mayfield that should tell you something. He is a 8-9 to 9-8 QB AT BEST! + or - 1

 

[flyerhawk]

I don't love Lock LMAO you try to turn this into some vendetta against Geno or some kind of man crush on Lock. When Geno Sucks ass i want to see Lock play it's that simple. Lets see what he has to offer. He looked 100% better this preseason than he did last preseason and looked to have matured in his ability to read defenses and going through his progressions. It was night and day different AND he looked better than Geno did out there in Preseason so why not Yank the starter when he is sucking ass? Is that so hard to understand?

You were railing about how he was the luckiest QB ever in the offseason. And so far you have criticized him after nearly every game. I don't think you have a vendetta. But I do think that your desire to be right is altering your perspective.

Geno did not suck ass on Monday. He was playing with the lead, with a makeshift OL that had zero players in the right position, 2 rookies, and 1 starter playing. Sure, he missed throws. He may have missed receivers as well, although I think you overstate that by a large margin given how little time he had in the pocket.

But he wasn't the one who called a dubious interference call on Tyler Lockett. He wasn't the one who stepped out of bounds negated a 25 yard reception. He wasn't the one getting called for holding.

I guarantee you that Pete gave Geno a huge high 5 for his play on Monday. Not because he was so good. But because he let the defense win the game and didn't get in the way of that. Compare that with Daniel Jones play last night in front of a makeshift OL.

Trust me, if Geno starts costing us games I will be right there with you calling for Lock to step in. That hasn't happened yet. And, IMO, we can't really measure how good Geno will be when our OL is in such shambles. Hopefully in 2 weeks we will see Cross and Lewis back in the lineup for the Bengals and Abe for the Cards game. Because the one thing I will say is that when Geno had time in that Lions game, he looked awesome.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

You have a particularly bad case of fan love of the backup QB.

Makes me think about Clipboard Jesus and how so many fans absolutely thought he was the answers, especially after the Giants game.

I was at the game and I sure as heck didn't see all these wide open receivers that you say Geno missed. I DID see Geno being constantly harassed by the Giants DL.

Are you talking about in the 2nd half when the Seahawks were doing their usual protect the ball/burn the clock?

Pretty sure there was one play (and I'm not going to go search for it, lol) where Geno had DK crossing over the middle ahead of the DB on both axis (closer to the QB and running away from him) that Geno missed... outside of that... he was under pretty constant barrage.

What I did see with Lock, is he missed two absolutely wide open WRs and one he did throw to but it was blatantly overthrown. To Lock's credit, JSN dropped the sideline pass which frankly he needs to catch for a good 10 yard gain or so.

Point being, Lock stepped in and hey, recognized an opportunity and Fant took it basically to the house. But I would NOT be looking to start Lock at the moment. Geno is a yes man (which is fine, so is Purdy) and that's perfectly fine for now. Josh Allen can go throw a bunch of picks and fumble and still win games on his own most of the time... Drew Lock is not that guy.

@Screamin12th I appreciate your enthusiasm to 'try things out' but I don't think Lock is the answer either, and why sacrifice a season to 'experiment' with something that likely the coaches know wont work is pointless. Unless you're a staff member, it's pretty obvious the coaching staff is not ready to start Lock and it has nothing to do with getting him 'NFL ready' - he's been in the NFL for years.... it's the fact that frankly and to quote the girlfriend of Happy Gilmore, "There's a problem, you're not any good." Dunno what to tell ya man. Geno is not a HOF QB or going to be some savior QB in Seattle... but he limits turnovers and GENERALLY puts his team in a position to win...

And that's what Seattle has built for.. surrounding an average QB with weapons and talent to win games. The QB basically just needs to run the offense and not fuck up. That is Geno to a tee. Drew Lock is not the second coming... so get that the F outta your head.

 

[flyerhawk]

Pretty sure there was one play (and I'm not going to go search for it, lol) where Geno had DK crossing over the middle ahead of the DB on both axis (closer to the QB and running away from him) that Geno missed... outside of that... he was under pretty constant barrage.

What I did see with Lock, is he missed two absolutely wide open WRs and one he did throw to but it was blatantly overthrown. To Lock's credit, JSN dropped the sideline pass which frankly he needs to catch for a good 10 yard gain or so.

Point being, Lock stepped in and hey, recognized an opportunity and Fant took it basically to the house. But I would NOT be looking to start Lock at the moment. Geno is a yes man (which is fine, so is Purdy) and that's perfectly fine for now. Josh Allen can go throw a bunch of picks and fumble and still win games on his own most of the time... Drew Lock is not that guy.

I'm sure Geno made mistakes. All QBs make mistakes. Mahomes threw 2 really bad interceptions on Sunday and he's the best QB in football.

We have to accept that Geno will never be an elite QB. But if he is competent, and we get lucky with a few young players, we can be a really good team.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I'm sure Geno made mistakes. All QBs make mistakes. Mahomes threw 2 really bad interceptions on Sunday and he's the best QB in football.

We have to accept that Geno will never be an elite QB. But if he is competent, and we get lucky with a few young players, we can be a really good team.

On the same page as you. Geno is not an 'elite QB' but so far he gets the job done... He's on pace for around 3,500 yards this season, 20 TDs and 5 INTs behind a makeshift line... That's fine. I can stomach that. Should it be more with the weapons he has on offense? Sure... could Mahomes take this offense (assuming the OL is healthy) and rack up 5K yards and 30 TDs? Probably.

That said, I see zero reason to switch to Lock at the moment.

I know the talk of the Seahawks/Giants game is Seattle's D and the Giants poor/cryfest OL (seriously? They had starters in).. but did everyone forget the Giants DL is VERY formidable (I'd argue top 5 in the league) going against an OL with ZERO starters at their intended position? I'm getting fairly annoyed with various sites (seriously almost ready to write off Walter Football) that everyone forgets when Seattle has injuries and just bashes them when they play teams with injuries but fail to mention Seattle.

I pulled it up earlier last week, Seattle has like the 5th most injuries in the league in the last 10 years of recorded stats.

 

[flyerhawk]

On the same page as you. Geno is not an 'elite QB' but so far he gets the job done... He's on pace for around 3,500 yards this season, 20 TDs and 5 INTs behind a makeshift line... That's fine. I can stomach that. Should it be more with the weapons he has on offense? Sure... could Mahomes take this offense (assuming the OL is healthy) and rack up 5K yards and 30 TDs? Probably.

That said, I see zero reason to switch to Lock at the moment.

I know the talk of the Seahawks/Giants game is Seattle's D and the Giants poor/cryfest OL (seriously? They had starters in).. but did everyone forget the Giants DL is VERY formidable (I'd argue top 5 in the league) going against an OL with ZERO starters at their intended position? I'm getting fairly annoyed with various sites (seriously almost ready to write off Walter Football) that everyone forgets when Seattle has injuries and just bashes them when they play teams with injuries but fail to mention Seattle.

I pulled it up earlier last week, Seattle has like the 5th most injuries in the league in the last 10 years of recorded stats.

Honestly, I think our offense is getting too much criticism and our defense is getting way too much credit right now.

The defense played well. But the Giants did move the ball pretty well against them. A strip sack and pick 6 really changed the game quite a bit. And the offense was actually pretty well but penalties really hurt them in the 1st half.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Honestly, I think our offense is getting too much criticism and our defense is getting way too much credit right now.

The defense played well. But the Giants did move the ball pretty well against them. A strip sack and pick 6 really changed the game quite a bit. And the offense was actually pretty well but penalties really hurt them in the 1st half.

I agree entirely. Really nothing else I can say.