MLB HOF Vote

[bksballer89]

Geez, it's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Saints. And negative stuff didn't keep others out. Nice taunt by the writers to vote in Ortiz, I guess.

exactly. Defending their decision is silly

 

[steveringo]

Bonds was a self-centered arrogant prick. Clemens (while still my all-time favorite player) was a stupid asshole.

Ortiz was a cool mellow dude (except when you bomb his city)....

 

[calsnowskier]

Bonds was a self-centered arrogant prick. Clemens (while still my all-time favorite player) was a stupid asshole.

Ortiz was a cool mellow dude (except when you bomb his city)....

And all three (allegedly) used steroids, though never actually tested positive when the tests were real or when they were against the rules.

 

[steveringo]

And, for what it's worth, I think Bonds and Clemens should have been first ballot inductees...

It is stupid to punish only the player that got caught when the entire league was on 'roids for decades...

 

[calsnowskier]

And 2 of them are no-question inner-circle all time greats (steroids or not) while one was only a half-player, but a real swell guy.

 

[steveringo]

And 2 of them are no-question inner-circle all time greats (steroids or not) while one was only a half-player, but a real swell guy.

I've changed my tune on DH's and relievers. I think players like Edgar Martinez, David Ortiz, Mariano Rivera, & Trevor Hoffman are great HOFers

 

[thedddd]

I am beating a dead horse here but typical baseball reverting back to being an old man’s game. Seriously it is criminal that Bonds and Clemens aren’t in the HOF. Yeah we all know they cheated but so did Ortiz.

And if only the “nice” guys deserve to be in the HOF, then they will need to remove over half of the players in the HOF.

 

[Robotech]

And 2 of them are no-question inner-circle all time greats (steroids or not) while one was only a half-player, but a real swell guy.

Exactly. Bonds and Clemens had already achieved Hall of Fame worthy careers prior to any PEDs stuff. If PEDs boosted anyone to the Hall of Fame, it's someone like Ortiz. And I'm surprised as well that the DH thing didn't hinder him at all. Edgar Martinez is just about as good as Ortiz and had no PED issues that I know of, yet it took forever for Martinez to get in.

 

[calsnowskier]

I've changed my tune on DH's and relievers. I think players like Edgar Martinez, David Ortiz, Mariano Rivera, & Trevor Hoffman are great HOFers

I haven’t. My bar for DHs is SUPER high.

Molitor played more than 50% of his games in the field, but he is still out, imho.

Thomas, imho, is the only DH to deserve induction.

Martinez gets a lot of love because he spent his whole career in one city, and because he stopped playing the field due to injury. Injury is part of the game, and he failed that part. You can’t give credit for something he didn’t actually do.

Ortiz, ultimately, might actually deserve it. But the lack of consistency in the ‘roid stink is too much for me to get beyond. He was a nothing until ‘98 when all of the sudden he became an uber-stud. Hmmm. Odd. Very Brady Anderson of him. But he was a swell guy, so no smoke here.

 

[calsnowskier]

Exactly. Bonds and Clemens had already achieved Hall of Fame worthy careers prior to any PEDs stuff. If PEDs boosted anyone to the Hall of Fame, it's someone like Ortiz. And I'm surprised as well that the DH thing didn't hinder him at all. Edgar Martinez is just about as good as Ortiz and had no PED issues that I know of, yet it took forever for Martinez to get in.

Bristol is in Red Sox territory.

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

It is simple math why Ortiz got in the Hall and not Bonds

Career WAR (55.3) + Career Gold Gloves for being on the field (0) + Career MVPS (0) + Positive Steroid Tests (ONE)

Career WAR (162.7) + Career Gold Gloves for being on the field (8) + Career MVP (7) + Positive Steroid Tests (ZERO)

Math checks out.

 

[Sandisfan]

When you pile on top of it all, according to most Bonds didn't start looking into and doing anything forbidden until Sosa and McGwire were being met on the field by the commissioner for their exploits. The MLB players union and MLB itself weren't concerned at all about any misdoings. Two much lesser players were getting all the Love because they were likeable. Bonds almost certainly did something although there is no actual certainty, his change of physique is very telling. We can't know that if after that abomination, for clinic reasons, of McGwire and the celebration of Sosa and Mac, had the players Union and MLB came down hard on those two during the off-season, Bonds may well have delayed any misuse of substances. We can be pretty sure that Bonds would only have sought out banned (actually not specifically banned) substances because these lesser players got the Love and Praise for all to see.

Except for the early user, a high profile player Canseco, almost all early users were trying to hang on or trying to get a better contract and as they were getting results and as they were displacing players above them the next level were pushed to keep their livelihoods. It was for the most part a bottom up revolution and MLB and the Union could have chopped this off at the knees but the players(union) and MLB were enjoying increasing revenues and neither could have cared less. Only when the secret testing that was supposed to be secret and confidential was illegally leaked(actually in this case I support the leak WITHOUT specific names attached). The baseball writers were getting more exposure from the increased interest in baseball and they weren't really interested until the story got a life of it's own and they could choose an unpopular individual to focus their displeasure on, in this case Bonds. Bonds own behavior helped push it forward but the penalty compared to the non-penalty for some players (who may be under the radar and unpunished and still celebrated as though they weren't involved) and those who had a say in starting test earlier, MLB and players union, the league and union bear much more responsibility for the problem and now stand in judgement which is ridiculous.

 

[Pure Steel]

It is simple math why Ortiz got in the Hall and not Bonds

Career WAR (55.3) + Career Gold Gloves for being on the field (0) + Career MVPS (0) + Positive Steroid Tests (ONE)

Career WAR (162.7) + Career Gold Gloves for being on the field (8) + Career MVP (7) + Positive Steroid Tests (ZERO)

Math checks out.

Don’t forget he was a nice guy and they gave him a pass at every turn……He was just so lovable……

 

[steveringo]

Ortiz, ultimately, might actually deserve it. But the lack of consistency in the ‘roid stink is too much for me to get beyond. He was a nothing until ‘98 when all of the sudden he became an uber-stud. Hmmm. Odd. Very Brady Anderson of him. But he was a swell guy, so no smoke here.

It was actually 03, when he joined the Sox... Interestingly, Boston had signed Giambi to be their DH that year. Jeremy Giambi, that is.... They started the season as a platoon...

unrelated... Red Sox HR totals that year...



and from 02?

 

[Robotech]

Don’t forget he was a nice guy and they gave him a pass at every turn……He was just so lovable……

I guess the next question is will ARod get in? He's been trying really hard to be super lovable.

 

[Robotech]

It is simple math why Ortiz got in the Hall and not Bonds

Career WAR (55.3) + Career Gold Gloves for being on the field (0) + Career MVPS (0) + Positive Steroid Tests (ONE)

Career WAR (162.7) + Career Gold Gloves for being on the field (8) + Career MVP (7) + Positive Steroid Tests (ZERO)

Math checks out.

Someone tweeted that the difference between Bonds's career WAR and Ortiz's career WAR is equal to ARod's career WAR. Really, this is the writers playing a joke on themselves. Everyone already knows that Bonds and Clemens are among the greatest of the great.

 

[calsnowskier]

Don’t forget he was a nice guy and they gave him a pass at every turn……He was just so lovable……

And he said “fuck” on a live mic after a terrorist attack. You can’t forget that.

 

[calsnowskier]

It was actually 03, when he joined the Sox... Interestingly, Boston had signed Giambi to be their DH that year. Jeremy Giambi, that is.... They started the season as a platoon...

unrelated... Red Sox HR totals that year...

View attachment 287574

and from 02?

View attachment 287575

Sorry, I was going off memory and messed up the year. My point, and I think you agree, stands.

 

[calsnowskier]

I guess the next question is will ARod get in? He's been trying really hard to be super lovable.

He has multiple positive tests for a substance that was illegal in the game at the time. While he didn’t necessarily do anything different from Bonds/Clemens, he has the paper trail and timing that goes against him.

I believe he is a HOFer based on his talent. But the “legalities” make him a very difficult case. And stand alone and separate from Bonds/Clemens.

 

[Pure Steel]

He has multiple positive tests for a substance that was illegal in the game at the time. While he didn’t necessarily do anything different from Bonds/Clemens, he has the paper trail and timing that goes against him.

I believe he is a HOFer based on his talent. But the “legalities” make him a very difficult case. And stand alone and separate from Bonds/Clemens.

Agree, it wouldn’t surprise me if Arod was cheating well before he was caught…..maybe in high school with his shady ties to his cousin…..