MLB HOF Vote

[calsnowskier]

So if my math is right 2 voters (net) had Bonds on their ballot but not Clemens. Fucking ridiculous.

No one who votes for Bonds should leave Clemens off.

No one who votes for Clemens should leave Bonds off.

 

[calsnowskier]

He’s probably thinking of Willie Mayes Hayes……

Greatest one-year-wonder in the history of the game, next to Brady Anderson.

 

[pachyderm]

Jackson and Rose broke a baseball rule. Rose AGREED to his lifetime ban. Jackson is dead now, so his lifetime ban has been served. Though the stink of of his transgression remains.

Bonds and Clemens never broke any baseball rules.

I can’t defend ARod too vigorously. The more I think on him, the more I may have to actually change my vote on him. Didn’t he ultimately get a lifetime ban?

I can never vote for a DH. That is just a “me” thing. Especially one who had just as much stink on him as Bonds and Clemens (he just wasn’t nearly as good).

Most people seem to believe Shoeless Joe was innocent.

Bonds, Clemens still a no for me.

Lincecum? How can anyone say no to Timmy?

 

[calsnowskier]

Most people seem to believe Shoeless Joe was innocent.

Bonds, Clemens still a no for me.

Lincecum? How can anyone say no to Timmy?

Timmeh was a steamroller for 3 years. But that’s it.

 

[Pure Steel]

Timmeh was a steamroller for 3 years. But that’s it.

Was great in Dazed & Confused......

 

[pachyderm]

Timmeh was a steamroller for 3 years. But that’s it.

Most of that list wasn't much better than that.

And his steamrolling was more dominant.

Andrew Jones? What the fuck?

Jesus compared to people who used to get voted in all these fuckers suck or cheated.

 

[calsnowskier]

Most of that list wasn't much better than that.

And his steamrolling was more dominant.

Andrew Jones? What the fuck?

Jesus compared to people who used to get voted in all these fuckers suck or cheated.

You don’t HAVE to vote for 10. You just can’t vote for MORE than 10.

I voted for only 4.

 

[calsnowskier]

Timmeh and Johan are very similar. 2 CYs each, but neither get much HOF talk because their effective seasons were so few. And outside of Clemens, the only multiple CY winners not in the Hall (of those eligible, of course).

 

[calsnowskier]

Timmeh and Johan are very similar. 2 CYs each, but neither get much HOF talk because their effective seasons were so few. And outside of Clemens, the only multiple CY winners not in the Hall (of those eligible, of course).

I just looked up Johan…

He lasted a lot longer than I remembered. While I think his longevity was still a bit short for serious HOF consideration, I am surprised he didn’t get more love when he was on the ballot.

 

[navamind]

Timmeh and Johan are very similar. 2 CYs each, but neither get much HOF talk because their effective seasons were so few. And outside of Clemens, the only multiple CY winners not in the Hall (of those eligible, of course).

Lincecum had 22.2 WAR from 2008-11 and finished with 19.9 bWAR. Lincecum was very deserving of his two CYAs IMO, but those seasons were more great than historically great and his 2010/11 performances were merely very good per WAR and ERA+. Santana had 9 seasons of elite pitching.

I do think Santana should be in, especially if Koufax is in. Koufax was amazing, but the majority of his career value comes from his 1961-66 stretch. Santana has a pretty strong 5-year peak from 2004-08 but he also had some good years bookending them (2002-03, 2009-10).

 

[calsnowskier]

Lincecum had 22.2 WAR from 2008-11 and finished with 19.9 bWAR. Lincecum was very deserving of his two CYAs IMO, but those seasons were more great than historically great and his 2010/11 performances were merely very good per WAR and ERA+. Santana had 9 seasons of elite pitching.

I do think Santana should be in, especially if Koufax is in. Koufax was amazing, but the majority of his career value comes from his 1961-66 stretch. Santana has a pretty strong 5-year peak from 2004-08 but he also had some good years bookending them (2002-03, 2009-10).

I don’t like WAR for pitchers, imho.

But I pretty much agree with everything you said. I lived through the Timmeh-run, so it does hurt my feels to disparage him, but facts are facts. Dude burned HOT, but his flame flickered fast.

 

[catman]

2022 BBHOF Tracker Summary and Leaderboard – Baseball Hall of Fame Vote Tracker

www.bbhoftracker.com

View attachment 286663

Frankly, I prefer 2022 BBHOF Tracker.xlsm
It shows individual votes from the voters.

 

[catman]

I just looked up Johan…

He lasted a lot longer than I remembered. While I think his longevity was still a bit short for serious HOF consideration, I am surprised he didn’t get more love when he was on the ballot.

Johan Santana was arguably a top 5 pitcher for about 5 years. His body just broke down. Having him drop off the ballot after 1 year was a travesty. I'm not saying that he should have been elected in his first year of eligibility, but he did deserve a longer look.

 

[catman]

Here is something I looked up just for fun -- Johan Santana v. Sandy Koufax. I am not equating Santana to Koufax, but their stats are not entirely dissimilar. In fact, Santana had a better ERA+ for his career than Koufax did.

Player Pitching Comparison: Johan Santana vs. Sandy Koufax | Stathead.com

Player Pitching Comparison: Johan Santana vs. Sandy Koufax

stathead.com

 

[calsnowskier]

Here is something I looked up just for fun -- Johan Santana v. Sandy Koufax. I am not equating Santana to Koufax, but their stats are not entirely dissimilar. In fact, Santana had a better ERA+ for his career than Koufax did.

Player Pitching Comparison: Johan Santana vs. Sandy Koufax | Stathead.com

Player Pitching Comparison: Johan Santana vs. Sandy Koufax

stathead.com

Baseball is weird in that there is a kind of reverse-recency bias always at play. The players we watched as kids, or more so, never actually saw play, are given the benefit of the doubt of being better that the absolute studs that we have actually seen with our own eyes.

it really is a strange phenomenon.

 

[catman]

Baseball is weird in that there is a kind of reverse-recency bias always at play. The players we watched as kids, or more so, never actually saw play, are given the benefit of the doubt of being better that the absolute studs that we have actually seen with our own eyes.

it really is a strange phenomenon.

I saw Koufax pitch in person a couple of times. He was amazing. I saw Johan a couple of times as well. I was just as impressed with Johan as I was with Koufax.

 

[calsnowskier]

I saw Koufax pitch in person a couple of times. He was amazing. I saw Johan a couple of times as well. I was just as impressed with Johan as I was with Koufax.

Than don’t apologize based on the reverse recency bias that Koufax brings to the table.

Just because a bunch of full of shit journos have established fact that Koufax is a living god does not mean you have to subscribe to that. Maybe top-of-his game Santana or top-of-his-game Timmeh was just as god like (or more) than Koufax.

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

I agree and have openly questioned this recency bias for years in Baseball.

We openly mock basketball players/Football players from decades ago.
Most people could not even name more than a handful of NFL players from the 1940s to 1960s.

Yet, we put old time baseball players as untouchable Gods of the Sport that today's player are a pale awful imitation.
We believe that none of today's players could ever be as good. We openly memorize names and stats of dudes who played in 1941.

It is such a weird thing.

 

[Cedrique]

I agree and have openly questioned this recency bias for years in Baseball.

We openly mock basketball players/Football players from decades ago.
Most people could not even name more than a handful of NFL players from the 1940s to 1960s.

Yet, we put old time baseball players as untouchable Gods of the Sport that today's player are a pale awful imitation.
We believe that none of today's players could ever be as good. We openly memorize names and stats of dudes who played in 1941.

It is such a weird thing.

It could be because the average baseball fan is about 57 and the average NBA fan is about 12.

 

[msgkings322]

It could be because the average baseball fan is about 57 and the average NBA fan is about 12.

More like 57 and 20 but yeah

Baseball has nostalgia in its DNA. The other sports not really.