MJ Kobe Lebron?

[trojanfan12]

I guess, but for every underpaid Pippen there is, isn't there an overpaid Mozgov (yeah..I get it...different times, but he's the first who came to mind). I don't think he offered to give money back (nor did Luol Deng).

To me, if any players should get deals redone (if any should) it's NFL guys who can be dumped if they don't produce.

NFL guys have the worst contracts. If there's any sport that needs fully guaranteed contracts, it's that one.

Don't see it happening though because their union is weak.

 

[dtgold88]

Well, the guy the owner hired to run the team, had already told the team it was the final year BEFORE the season. Jackson wasn't coming back. Jordan wasn't coming back. Pippen wasn't coming back. Rodman was going to Vegas on vacation in the middle of the season and wrestling with Hulk Hogan during the playoffs.

Jordan saying he wanted to come back is BS. Even if Jackson had agreed to come back -- Pippen was gone. Rodman......who knows?

This wasn't the NBA today where the salary cap is $115 million. The salary cap was $27 million. To bring all the guys back for what they would have wanted, the Bulls would have lost money on the year.

And I'm not sure what the challenge would be playing for a new coach -- Jordan had 4 different coaches in his 13 years in Chicago.

But he only won with one of them and he was the one who said he would not play for another one. and, yes, I agree would have been hard to bring everyone back. Hence, my calling it a challenge....and one that Jackson and MJ were not up to.

 

[dtgold88]

I would suspend him for shits and grins. Whenever he takes up a full page by himself...


He gone

haha....I could see that I guess.

That's my posting style or at least when I post. I tend to go way for long stretches and then get caught up.

 

[tlance]

why does he need to be fired? Reinsdorf could just say they talked it out and decided they wanted to go for a 7th. Or just say a rebuild will be necessary but they are putting it off a year.

Is that why Pippen hates Krause? Because he said a rebuild was necessary? That's it?

Did you watch the documentary?

Pippen hated Krause for a lot of reasons. He was underpaid and under appreciated. Pippen was on the trade block multiple times. Krause always tended to overlook Pippen and others in his own locker room to fawn over possible future players like Kukoc.

I explained clearly why firing Krause might be needed to get Pippen to resign. He had his mind made up that he wasn’t coming back to play for the Jerry’s.

 

[dtgold88]

Did you watch the documentary?

Pippen hated Krause for a lot of reasons. He was underpaid and under appreciated. Pippen was on the trade block multiple times. Krause always tended to overlook Pippen and others in his own locker room to fawn over possible future players like Kukoc.

I explained clearly why firing Krause might be needed to get Pippen to resign. He had his mind made up that he wasn’t coming back to play for the Jerry’s.

I did watch the documentary. That's how I know it was Jackson and Jordan who were more responsible for the end of the run.

does Pippen offer to give money back if he regresses or gets hurt? He was petty and childish. I'm sure he didn't quite give them what Portland hoped he would all 4 years. do you think he offered to give money back?

who took more crap on that team, Pippen or Krause? But all Krause did was put together a roster that could win 55 games without MJ on it. And, yes, Kuckoc helped in that regard, a brilliant acquisition by Krause. were his widdle feewings hurt because Krause took a call or even made a call about a deal involving him, which happens all the time?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

But he only won with one of them and he was the one who said he would not play for another one. and, yes, I agree would have been hard to bring everyone back. Hence, my calling it a challenge....and one that Jackson and MJ were not up to.

Not up to what? Starting over? What did they have left to prove?

He could went to the Knicks -- they offered him $25 million at one point. The Bulls gave him $30m instead, then $31m, then $34m. What is that going to prove if he went to Knicks and won a title with Patrick Ewing? Or if he went to the Spurs? Or to the Jazz?

Jordan was on the Bulls from the ground floor to the Penthouse. He won 6 titles in 6 appearances in the finals. He won every single award you could possibly win in 1998. He had nothing left to prove.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I did watch the documentary. That's how I know it was Jackson and Jordan who were more responsible for the end of the run.

does Pippen offer to give money back if he regresses or gets hurt? He was petty and childish. I'm sure he didn't quite give them what Portland hoped he would all 4 years. do you think he offered to give money back?

who took more crap on that team, Pippen or Krause? But all Krause did was put together a roster that could win 55 games without MJ on it. And, yes, Kuckoc helped in that regard, a brilliant acquisition by Krause. were his widdle feewings hurt because Krause took a call or even made a call about a deal involving him, which happens all the time?

If you watched the documentary and think Jackson and Jordan were responsible for the Bulls team breaking up -- You didn't watch very carefully.

Krause wanted to break the team up way before 1998. He wanted to trade away key pieces to try and build for the future. He had a coach who had won 4 championships that was ready to quit and only came back because they kept winning.

Krause looked good because of Jordan. When the Bulls broke up in 1998. Chicago won like 60 games TOTAL the next 4 years and only had 2 winnings season over the next 10+ years.

 

[SJ76]

haha....I could see that I guess.

That's my posting style or at least when I post. I tend to go way for long stretches and then get caught up.

All sarcasm man.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

NFL guys have the worst contracts. If there's any sport that needs fully guaranteed contracts, it's that one.

Don't see it happening though because their union is weak.

No doubt. I feel bad for NFL guys -- they have the shortest career shelf life and they get screwed on their contracts too. They also take the most punishment. I just don't get it. They give a guy a $100 million dollar contract and it is really only a $35 million dollar contract because they can cut them after year 2

 

[Mecca]

what did he let go on too long? I can understand making a guy who has a guaranteed deal honor his contract. sure, he could have renegotiated it, but as mentioned players who don't live up to their deals don't give money back.

what else went on too long? Hanging on to a GM who did his job pretty well? a guy most probably didn't like because of how he looked and because he would not bow down to them.

He let the battle of wills go on too long.

Krause stated, repeatedly, that Phil wasn't coming back.

He could go 82-0 and he wasn't coming back.

Jordan stated, repeatedly, he would not play for another Coach.

Yet, he waited until the public backlash was heating up to say...okay, one more year, Phil.

Why wait until the 11th hour?

He could have simply said all options are on the table...

Why wait to put a stop to Krause being publicly emasculated on the regular?

Why wait until every single bridge was burned to step in?

 

[Mecca]

without knowing what he was offered I guess it's hard to know if Phillip should have been offended.

I think with Lue it was more about being told who his assistants needed to be.

.....and contract length for Lue.

 

[trojanfan12]

No doubt. I feel bad for NFL guys -- they have the shortest career shelf life and they get screwed on their contracts too. They also take the most punishment. I just don't get it. They give a guy a $100 million dollar contract and it is really only a $35 million dollar contract because they can cut them after year 2

Yeah, I didn't realize they were that bad until a few years ago.

I was listening to Dan Patrick and one of the Danette's mentioned an NFL player who had just signed what sounded like a big contract.

Then DP says "But how much is guaranteed? That's the only number that matters."

The guaranteed money was only something like 1/3 of the contracts full value.

Then he went into a mini-rant about how the NFL does that so they can just release a guy if they want to bring in someone cheaper or he gets hurt.

I knew that NFL contracts weren't fully guaranteed. But I always assumed that the guaranteed portion would be more than 1/3.

 

[Mecca]

But he only won with one of them and he was the one who said he would not play for another one. and, yes, I agree would have been hard to bring everyone back. Hence, my calling it a challenge....and one that Jackson and MJ were not up to.

Yeah, kinda like LeBron with the Cavs.

LeBron said don't trade Kyrie, Cavs did it anyway.

LeBron jumped ship.

Difference being, Jordan was coming off a 3 peat and LeBron 2 straight Finals loses.

Guess LeBron wasn't up for the challenge either, huh?

Well, we don't have to guess in his case.

We actually saw him lose and not defend his title.

If you remember, Kyrie wanted to be traded after they won.

Cavs declined.

They wanted the Team to have the opportunity to run it back.

Jordan wasn't allowed the same opportunity.

 

[dtgold88]

Not up to what? Starting over? What did they have left to prove?

He could went to the Knicks -- they offered him $25 million at one point. The Bulls gave him $30m instead, then $31m, then $34m. What is that going to prove if he went to Knicks and won a title with Patrick Ewing? Or if he went to the Spurs? Or to the Jazz?

Jordan was on the Bulls from the ground floor to the Penthouse. He won 6 titles in 6 appearances in the finals. He won every single award you could possibly win in 1998. He had nothing left to prove.

Starting over? They could have come back with others besides Scottie...even traded scottie. But MJ can't win without him it seems.

Agreed his right to quit, but why not prove he can win without scottie and/or Phillip?

Think Phillip had offers before the Lakers called him? If the Clips offered would he have come out of retirement?

 

[dtgold88]

All sarcasm man.

I'm aware....why I gave the hahahah.

all in good fun for me, my friend.

 

[dtgold88]

No doubt. I feel bad for NFL guys -- they have the shortest career shelf life and they get screwed on their contracts too. They also take the most punishment. I just don't get it. They give a guy a $100 million dollar contract and it is really only a $35 million dollar contract because they can cut them after year 2

I don't feel bad for them, but if you mean compared to other pro athletes I agree.

 

[dtgold88]

He let the battle of wills go on too long.

Krause stated, repeatedly, that Phil wasn't coming back.

He could go 82-0 and he wasn't coming back.

Jordan stated, repeatedly, he would not play for another Coach.

Yet, he waited until the public backlash was heating up to say...okay, one more year, Phil.

Why wait until the 11th hour?

He could have simply said all options are on the table...

Why wait to put a stop to Krause being publicly emasculated on the regular?

Why wait until every single bridge was burned to step in?

No disagreement with any of that but the fact remains he was still asked to come back and said no. I would also ask why do they care so much what Krause thought or said (sticks and stones)?

And, again, maybe give Krause his due, as well. He seems like he's a little better at building a team than MJ or Phillip.

Think they'd have given Krause so much shit if he was a former player?

 

[dtgold88]

.....and contract length for Lue.

Guessing discussions were over for Lue when he couldn't pick his own staff (hard to blame him). Contract length probably didn't matter.

Not to compare to Lue, but do we know what phillip was offered?

 

[Mecca]

I did watch the documentary. That's how I know it was Jackson and Jordan who were more responsible for the end of the run.

does Pippen offer to give money back if he regresses or gets hurt? He was petty and childish. I'm sure he didn't quite give them what Portland hoped he would all 4 years. do you think he offered to give money back?

who took more crap on that team, Pippen or Krause? But all Krause did was put together a roster that could win 55 games without MJ on it. And, yes, Kuckoc helped in that regard, a brilliant acquisition by Krause. were his widdle feewings hurt because Krause took a call or even made a call about a deal involving him, which happens all the time?

Perception is reality and you are clearly living in a different Universe from the pro-Jordan crowd.

I saw several instances where Phil and the players were completely disrespectful, straight assailed to Krause.

I saw just as many instances where Krause let his Napoleon syndrome sink his battle ship.

Dude is a victim of his own hubris.

Maybe some of my bias comes from the fact that I have been invested in this saga for decades.

Maybe it's based on the knowledge that Krause was a Fucking clown who actually believed he was going to land Duncan, Mcgrady and Grant Hill as soon as he got rid of Jordan and co.

He was a fool...lol

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah, kinda like LeBron with the Cavs.

LeBron said don't trade Kyrie, Cavs did it anyway.

LeBron jumped ship.

Difference being, Jordan was coming off a 3 peat and LeBron 2 straight Finals loses.

Guess LeBron wasn't up for the challenge either, huh?

Well, we don't have to guess in his case.

We actually saw him lose and not defend his title.

If you remember, Kyrie wanted to be traded after they won.

Cavs declined.

They wanted the Team to have the opportunity to run it back.

Jordan wasn't allowed the same opportunity.

Actually Lebron did not say don't trade Kyrie. Lebron wanted him to stay so badly he couldn't even be bothered to call the kid and see why he would not play with him. Lebron made it clear to them before he left he was not staying. You don't really think he'd have stayed if Kyrie was still here, do you?

as for Jordan, so you are saying if everything is not ideal he cannot take up the challenge?