Michael Sam ?

[TobyTyler]

It has to do with the fact that he's openly gay, not with this so-called "gay agenda," whatever that is.

Why does that make a difference? Its only a story because he is gay. The gay agenda is to project themselves into the mainstream public eye and draw attention to themselves. My opinion is that they are no different from heterosexuals and it should not be a story.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Why does that make a difference? Its only a story because he is gay. The gay agenda is to project themselves into the mainstream public eye and draw attention to themselves. My opinion is that they are no different from heterosexuals and it should not be a story.

In this specific case, they are clearly different. No openly gay man has played in the NFL. Thousands of openly straight men have done so. Hence, a difference.

Ironically, I would argue that you have defined the "gay agenda" as precisely the opposite of the ambitions of most gay people in this country. The vast majority that I have had contact with want nothing more than to be treated as if they are no different from everyone else. Ask Chris Culliver why that isn't the case here.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Btw, the fact that he's gay is only a story because he's gay? That's some circular logic....

 

[NinerSickness]

That's some circular logic....

You expected better?

 

[NinerSickness]

Here's the biggest knock on Michael Sam as a prospect:

He's bad in the film room. He doesn't quite get some of the concepts. For example: when they were drawing up plays, he thought the X's & O's meant hugs & kisses.

 

[sjballer03]

Here's the biggest knock on Michael Sam as a prospect:

He's bad in the film room. He doesn't quite get some of the concepts. For example: when they were drawing up plays, he thought the X's & O's meant hugs & kisses.

 

[supreme_clientele81]

Here's the biggest knock on Michael Sam as a prospect:

He's bad in the film room. He doesn't quite get some of the concepts. For example: when they were drawing up plays, he thought the X's & O's meant hugs & kisses.

Nice

 

[MHSL82]

Why does that make a difference? Its only a story because he is gay. The gay agenda is to project themselves into the mainstream public eye and draw attention to themselves. My opinion is that they are no different from heterosexuals and it should not be a story.

I think as long as he takes the same attitude as he has and just tries to be the best football player as he can, then I don't have any problem with it. If he takes the Kluwe approach and says that he was picked lower because of the sexuality or that he is a backup and not a starter because of his sexuality, that would bug me.

Whether or not it's true, whether or not someone would find out anyway, by coming out when he did, it could hurt his status, even if the fact that it hurts his status is a bad thing about the GM's, he knew it.

It's like how Kluwe knew that speaking out could hurt his job as a kicker but he still said something. He has the right to say what he wants to say and it's wrong to be fired because of it, but if he knew that he was going to lose his job by speaking out and speaks out anyway, it's partially his fault for losing his job.

Now there is a weighing process, speaking out may be more important than a job, but that's the evaluation. It's like if I tease my brother and he hits me, hitting me is wrong and my brother should get in trouble, but if I knew he's going to do that, it's my fault for teasing him. If I needed to tease him in order to distract him or something, then it might be worth it, but it still is my fault. Kluwe, as far as we know, is not gay, and while marriage equality could be important to everyone, it just seems silly to lose your job because of it. If it is a job that you should keep by just doing the status quo, then sure, do it. Sue them afterwards. However, the NFL is a job where they're always trying to get someone younger and can basically justify almost any firing. Then it is just stupid unless you see your cause as higher than your job.

I'm not suggesting that NFL players should not be able to express themselves or interact with society and participate as they choose, I'm just saying that it's not a surprise and he partially caused it. And NFL careers are short and I don't think that he really contributed that much to the movement. It's like paying a lot for a movie that you genuinely would like to see but for paying too much. It's worth something, but not what you paid.

 

[TobyTyler]

In this specific case, they are clearly different. No openly gay man has played in the NFL. Thousands of openly straight men have done so. Hence, a difference.

Ironically, I would argue that you have defined the "gay agenda" as precisely the opposite of the ambitions of most gay people in this country. The vast majority that I have had contact with want nothing more than to be treated as if they are no different from everyone else. Ask Chris Culliver why that isn't the case here.

Agreed, and that is the way it should be and the way I would want it if I were a member of that community. But the leaders of the gay community and the politicians they are pushing definitely have their own agenda and want it out there and shoved down our throat that "we are here whether you like it or not".
They are taking advantage of Sam and that is wrong. Making it such a huge deal is going to make it that much harder to swallow for those who, for one reason or another, do not accept this lifestyle and it provides them with a platform to promote their own agenda.

 

[TobyTyler]

Btw, the fact that he's gay is only a story because he's gay? That's some circular logic....

Bull shit. Its obviously only a story because he is gay since I've shown you that no other projected 4th or 5th rounder is getting any print now. But you knew that, as you said, you are bored and thee is no other news.

 

[TobyTyler]

I think as long as he takes the same attitude as he has and just tries to be the best football player as he can, then I don't have any problem with it. If he takes the Kluwe approach and says that he was picked lower because of the sexuality or that he is a backup and not a starter because of his sexuality, that would bug me.

Whether or not it's true, whether or not someone would find out anyway, by coming out when he did, it could hurt his status, even if the fact that it hurts his status is a bad thing about the GM's, he knew it.

It's like how Kluwe knew that speaking out could hurt his job as a kicker but he still said something. He has the right to say what he wants to say and it's wrong to be fired because of it, but if he knew that he was going to lose his job by speaking out and speaks out anyway, it's partially his fault for losing his job.

Now there is a weighing process, speaking out may be more important than a job, but that's the evaluation. It's like if I tease my brother and he hits me, hitting me is wrong and my brother should get in trouble, but if I knew he's going to do that, it's my fault for teasing him. If I needed to tease him in order to distract him or something, then it might be worth it, but it still is my fault. Kluwe, as far as we know, is not gay, and while marriage equality could be important to everyone, it just seems silly to lose your job because of it. If it is a job that you should keep by just doing the status quo, then sure, do it. Sue them afterwards. However, the NFL is a job where they're always trying to get someone younger and can basically justify almost any firing. Then it is just stupid unless you see your cause as higher than your job.

I'm not suggesting that NFL players should not be able to express themselves or interact with society and participate as they choose, I'm just saying that it's not a surprise and he partially caused it. And NFL careers are short and I don't think that he really contributed that much to the movement. It's like paying a lot for a movie that you genuinely would like to see but for paying too much. It's worth something, but not what you paid.

The guy has guts to come out but what I wish he had done was let someone else break the story and then when someone came to interview him and ask why he didn't announce it, he'd just say "Yeah its true, I didn't think it was a big deal its just who I am". And then make no other public comment about it. That would be cool and there would be no story. He could just refuse to be a pawn for either side of the issue to use.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Bull shit. Its obviously only a story because he is gay since I've shown you that no other projected 4th or 5th rounder is getting any print now. But you knew that, as you said, you are bored and thee is no other news.

I started to agree, literally typing out, "Of course it's only a story because he's gay. That IS the story." But then I thought about it and I disagree. This isn't a story because he's gay. It's a story because he's an aspiring NFL player.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

The guy has guts to come out but what I wish he had done was let someone else break the story and then when someone came to interview him and ask why he didn't announce it, he'd just say "Yeah its true, I didn't think it was a big deal its just who I am". And then make no other public comment about it. That would be cool and there would be no story. He could just refuse to be a pawn for either side of the issue to use.

1) Even if this broke, assuming he confirmed it, there would still be a major story. The manner of his announcement is not what is driving this story.

2) The fact that it is a story that someone would break at all indicates that it is, in fact, a big deal.

3) If the guy was going to be outed nationally, which seems somewhat likely, he wanted it to be on his own terms. I can certainly respect that.

 

[TobyTyler]

I started to agree, literally typing out, "Of course it's only a story because he's gay. That IS the story." But then I thought about it and I disagree. This isn't a story because he's gay. It's a story because he's an aspiring NFL player.

Wasn't he an aspiring NFL player last week? I must have missed all those stories about his aspirations last week.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Agreed, and that is the way it should be and the way I would want it if I were a member of that community. But the leaders of the gay community and the politicians they are pushing definitely have their own agenda and want it out there and shoved down our throat that "we are here whether you like it or not".
They are taking advantage of Sam and that is wrong. Making it such a huge deal is going to make it that much harder to swallow for those who, for one reason or another, do not accept this lifestyle and it provides them with a platform to promote their own agenda.

A number of current NFL players are on record as saying they would not accept a gay teammate, including one on the most prominent media stage just over a year ago. A number of GMs have suggested that they would not draft a gay player, or at least would knock him down in rankings for being gay. You may want gay people to act like they are the same as everyone else, but they aren't. They are regularly treated very differently from people who are not gay. That is the primary reason why this is a story. Certainly there are people in the gay rights movement who convey their message in a manner with which I disagree, but there is a movement at all because it is a historically oppressed minority that still lacks equal rights.

It is very easy for someone in the majority to say that the minority should be less vocal about inequality. I wonder if you would feel the same way if the roles were reversed. Actually, that's not true. I don't wonder; I already know the answer.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Double post.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Wasn't he an aspiring NFL player last week? I must have missed all those stories about his aspirations last week.

Yes. And last I checked, Joe Normal college graduate's announcement that he was gay wasn't national news.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

Ha......whoa. This is something you don't usually see:

Father of Michael Sam struggling with news son is gay - ESPN

Sam's father took the news hard. He said he was eating at a Denny's restaurant but had to leave after receiving the text.

"I couldn't eat no more, so I went to Applebee's to have drinks," Sam Sr. told the newspaper. "I don't want my grandkids raised in that kind of environment."

Sam Sr., who described himself as "old-school," told the newspaper the idea of a gay player in the NFL bothers him, even when that person could be his own son.

He told the newspaper that late Hall of Famer Deacon Jones, the leader of the Rams' Fearsome Foursome who is credited with terming the word sack, "is turning over in his grave."

I guess the guy's world and backwards attitude just got rocked, but in most situations like this the parent can at least refrain from bitter remarks in public......

 

[purguy12]

Father is a joke. Its 2014, come on man grow up. Him being gay has nothing to do with his talent. Look I wouldn't my son to be gay because how tough of a childhood he would have but I would support him and love him no matter what. Being gay isn't a disease. Its who he is.

I feel bad for Sam. Its a joke how people still react like this. His father is pathetic and if I was Sam I would succeed in life just to show up his father.

I hope 49ers draft this kid and he becomes a stud.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Ha......whoa. This is something you don't usually see:

Father of Michael Sam struggling with news son is gay - ESPN



I guess the guy's world and backwards attitude just got rocked, but in most situations like this the parent can at least refrain from bitter remarks in public......

Case in point, Toby, that our society - or at least large swaths of it - still view homosexuality as different and wrong.