Michael Sam ?

[TobyTyler]

You're changing your argument. Your argument about civil rights did not consider the primary motivations of the people engaged in civil rights work, it only considered whether they personally benefited. Even if Salk's motivation was entirely philanthropic - and I'm not disputing that it was - he reaped considerable personal benefit from his work.

Based on your argument, he does not deserve very much credit because his work led to his own personal benefit. Admittedly, I believe that's a completely asinine argument. I'm simply extending the logic to this situation.

Then I should have expressed myself more clearly. I'm talking about the primary motivation for the things people do and if that motivation is done to improve their own lot, be it financial or personal.

 

[TobyTyler]

I wanted to return to this.

What's Watson's personal benefit from that? He could go to club regardless. He wasn't Jewish. If we're broadening "personal benefit" to include benefit to family and friends, your already miniscule pool of truly philanthropic people is going to shrink to zero. For instance, if your Freedom Riders had a single minority friend, based on the Tom Watson standard, their actions were not truly philanthropic. If Salk was close to anyone with polio, his actions were not philanthropic by the standard you lay out above.

LOL! Have you ever been married? His life at home would have been hell had he approved of a club that excluded members of his wife's religion. But basically my problem with Watson is that he did not speak out until it directly affected a member of his family.
As for the last part of your statement though, its clear to me that you are just being argumentative for argument's sake. Picking nits does not improve your position in my book; in fact it kinda weakens it.

 

[MHSL82]

C'mon now. That's a stretch even for you. You honestly think he conducted his work so he could create his research center? A non-profit research center at that?

Just to be clear, a non-profit research company does not mean that it's members don't make money. Non-profit is not volunteering per se.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Then I should have expressed myself more clearly. I'm talking about the primary motivation for the things people do and if that motivation is done to improve their own lot, be it financial or personal.

And how do you determine their primary motivation?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

LOL! Have you ever been married? His life at home would have been hell had he approved of a club that excluded members of his wife's religion. But basically my problem with Watson is that he did not speak out until it directly affected a member of his family.
As for the last part of your statement though, its clear to me that you are just being argumentative for argument's sake. Picking nits does not improve your position in my book; in fact it kinda weakens it.

Hey, it's not my fault you have put forth an incredibly asinine argument that can't hold up to any level of scrutiny.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Crimson, I think you've been trying a little too hard to play devil's advocate here.

 

[TobyTyler]

Just to be clear, a non-profit research company does not mean that it's members don't make money. Non-profit is not volunteering per se.

You should read a little deeper about Dr. Salk than just Wikipedia

 

[TobyTyler]

Crimson, I think you've been trying a little too hard to play devil's advocate here.

Yep, but that is his M.O. He's too smart to play dumb effectively. Good heart and good head, though often misplaced.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Crimson, I think you've been trying a little too hard to play devil's advocate here.

That's entirely possible so far as it pertains to Sam.

 

[MHSL82]

You should read a little deeper about Dr. Salk than just Wikipedia

Didn't go further than your post. You said it was a non-profit organization - doesn't mean he didn't get a salary.

 

[BINGO]

Honestly, just watching Michael Sam do some of the workouts at the combine, I wouldn't draft him at all. Extremely tight hipped, too stiff, not particularly strong for his size, pedestrian athleticism and just doesn't have much to offer in terms of potential.

Speaking STRICTLY from a football standpoint, he's probably a 6th/7th rounder, but since the circus would also be rolling into town with him, I wouldn't even think about drafting him, and honestly I'd be shocked if he was drafted at this point.

Michael Sam - DL - Tigers

Missouri DE Michael Sam could go undrafted, according to NFL.com writer Daniel Jeremiah, a former NFL scout.

Evaluators are spooked by Sam's 25.5 inch vertical, according to the scribe. "That shows you a lack of explosiveness, which is going to scare a lot of people off," said Jeremiah. "He needs to jump better than that at his Pro Day or I think it's a real chance, you're talking about (a) seventh-round pick, possibly even going undrafted." The 6-foot-1, 260-pound Sam ran a 4.91 40-yard dash, only slightly above average for defensive line prospects. "He does have some good tape," Jeremiah said. "I think he's a good football player. But when you don't really have the overall athleticism teams are looking for, and you don't really have a true position, which we've talked about before, it makes it tough."
Source: NFL.com

Feb 27 - 8:59 PM

 

[TobyTyler]

Didn't go further than your post. You said it was a non-profit organization - doesn't mean he didn't get a salary.

Your problem, not mine. If you choose to remain ignorant on the topic, that's your call.

 

[MHSL82]

Your problem, not mine. If you choose to remain ignorant on the topic, that's your call.

I wasn't even making an argument against Salk. In fact, everyone in this thread likes what he has done and acknowledges that he did not have polio and wanted the cure for good reasons. I didn't say the pay he got means he was in it for the money, just that non-profit doesn't mean the people aren't paid. The only contention here in this thread about Salk is one that I have not weighed in on: whether his work was 100% not to his own benefit or < 99.9 not to his benefit.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Not intending to resurrect much of this thread, just didn't want to create a new one.

2014 NFL draft -- Michael Sam in spotlight at Missouri Tigers' pro day - ESPN

Michael Sam certainly draws a crowd.

I mean, call me crazy, but the crowd may be there to see sure-fire first rounder Kony Ealy....

 

[Crimsoncrew]

As far as Sam, seems like he did improve his numbers considerably in the 40 and the vertical. I'm pretty skeptical, though. Ealy shaved 0.35 seconds off his 40 between combine and pro day, and Sam shaved almost .25 off. Those numbers are an unrealistic improvement.

 

[joshuar56]

As far as Sam, seems like he did improve his numbers considerably in the 40 and the vertical. I'm pretty skeptical, though. Ealy shaved 0.35 seconds off his 40 between combine and pro day, and Sam shaved almost .25 off. Those numbers are an unrealistic improvement.

How can you be skeptical of improving your vertical? It's not like a 40 where you have the possibility of human error with a stop watch. He also improved his bench press. As far as his 40 being that much fast, I am skeptical, but from what I read there were a lot of people timing it, and they were all around the same time. Some were even faster.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

How can you be skeptical of improving your vertical? It's not like a 40 where you have the possibility of human error with a stop watch. He also improved his bench press. As far as his 40 being that much fast, I am skeptical, but from what I read there were a lot of people timing it, and they were all around the same time. Some were even faster.

Sorry, I should have clarified. I'm skeptical of the 40, not the vertical. Or, I'm not nearly as skeptical. I'm not sure how closely they check those things they use to measure. Could make an inch or two difference, but certainly not five. Improving the bench press by two isn't all that unusual.

Re: the 40, the combine isn't a very fast surface. I don't know how Missouri stacks up (Chris is usually all over what fields/tracks are fast, as with everything), but seeing two guys go from the 4.9s to the 4.6s or faster is suspicious. I'd guess the hand timing bumps the guys 0.1 (Ealy was hand-timed at 4.84 at the combine, digitally timed at 4.92), and the surface could give them another 0.1 pretty easily.

 

[NinerSickness]

As far as Sam, seems like he did improve his numbers considerably in the 40 and the vertical. I'm pretty skeptical, though. Ealy shaved 0.35 seconds off his 40 between combine and pro day, and Sam shaved almost .25 off. Those numbers are an unrealistic improvement.

Hense the uselessness of pro' day speed times.

His vertical is a ton better though, and that's reliable. But it went from atrocious to bad, so it's not like his stock is going up at all. He's a 6th rounder at best & might not even get drafted.

 

[Jikkle]

He's a 6th rounder at best & might not even get drafted.

Unless Hoge is your GM as he would've traded up with the Texans to select him #1 overall.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Unless Hoge is your GM as he would've traded up with the Texans to select him #1 overall.

The story is that Hoge was talking about Khalil Mack but the Tweet that went out (not from him) put Michael Sam's twitter handle.