Mayhew is about to do something real crazy.

[Old Lion]

We will be fine with Barr at 10. He has just as much upside at his position as any other player in the draft at their position. No need to sell the farm to get one of the others.


Everything the Lions have done so far this offseason screams they will draft a LB. Also, LB is not as deep as WR or CB.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Hes already explained it, multiple times.

He continues to use statements like his last one -- How it will make Detroit a powerful team. The only thing it will do is give the Lions a powerful offense. And if they trade away multiple picks to get Watkins, it is only going to handcuff the Lions ability to upgrade the multiple areas they have a dire need of upgrades.

I keep hearing how we should wait to see how the play of the defense is changed by the new DC, but why isn't he saying the same thing about the offense?

I just can't grasp how the Lions faithful can't be tired of watching the team chase the dream of an unstoppable offense. It hasn't taken the team anywhere. We piled up 400+ yards of offense in our only playoff appearance, while NO put up 600+ yards. It was like watching a college football game.

I just don't want to see the Lions continue to make the same mistakes over and over.

 

[gandydancer]

Just a little under 21 more days of this...

 

[lionstop1]

I whole-heartedly think the defense needs a couple more players, but I think they lack consistency and discipline. I dont see a lot of holes like everyone does.

I say powerful because you can a lot of games when you field a great offense. Its been proven time and time again. And if Watkins is added to a team that has the best in the game, Tate, Bush and a qb with a rocket arm, I think can do some amazing things.

We can wait to add some guys on defense or we can grab Gilbert or trade up for Clowney. It doesnt matter to me. You keep making it seem as if I think trading for Watkins is the only option. Its not like that at all. I keep saying that if you have a chance at elite players, you must consider it. I just happen to like Watkins better than the other guys.

If their was a pure shut-down corner that was a top 3 prospect in this draft, I promise you would see me pleading my case about trying to get him before I would Watkins.

 

[lionstop1]

The Lions have/had what should be the best d-line in football, yet the Lions chase offense? Two of the LBs are legit and were brought here by Mayhew, yet they only chase offense? Mayhew has attempted numerous amounts of times to trade for top CBs, drafted Delmas, signed Quinn, yet they chase offense?

I don't get it.

Suddenly, Mayhew is supposed to stop drafting WRs because he failed in the past? He shouldnt even consider one of the elite players because he's a WR? Please. The Lions should just sit at 10 even if they feel like it might be better to trade up? Mayhew is supposed to follow our mock drafts or instantly turn the team into Seattle? Please.

Im like this:

Who cares about the past? Its done, lets move on. Give me one of the best athletes of the entire draft every day, all day. Take control of the draft and do the things you want to do and create opportunities for the team.

If there is a new plan in place, show me what its about and I'll judge later. Go ahead and give up a few picks but I hope it works.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

The Lions have/had what should be the best d-line in football, yet the Lions chase offense? Two of the LBs are legit and were brought here by Mayhew, yet they only chase offense? Mayhew has attempted numerous amounts of times to trade for top CBs, drafted Delmas, signed Quinn, yet they chase offense?

I don't get it.

At what point have the Lions had the best defensive line in football? I must have missed those years. Have they invested heavily in the defensive line? Absolutely. Have they been the best in the NFL? I'll let you tell me when that was.

I've also said repeatedly the Lions have spent picks on the defensive line. I'd like to see them use top picks elsewhere on the defense, where they need upgrades.

As far as chasing the unstoppable offense -- if you haven't noticed them trying to do this since the years of Matt Millen to now -- I can't help you. Since 2000, we've had 16 1st round picks. 12 have been spent on the offense, 4 have been spent on the defense.

Millen chased the unstoppable offense -- spending top pick after top pick on the offense. Mayhew has spread it out a little better, but he still has shown he is trying for the same concept. There is no need to type out the picks he has spent on the offense, as everyone can see them with their own eyes.

If you feel Mayhew has given the defense the same amount of attention he has spent on the offense -- then there is no need to even have this conversation.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I say powerful because you can a lot of games when you field a great offense.

Detroit had a powerful offense the year they made the playoffs. Stafford threw for over 5000 yards and 41 touchdowns. They put up over 400+ yards on New Orleans and what happened?

 

[tpaulus_2]

Just a little under 21 more days of this...

Whooooo! Aaron Donald or bust for me!

 

[lionstop1]

TrustmeImright,

I said the Lions "should" have one of the best d-lines in football. They have spent some resources there. I just dont see where Mayhew hasnt tried with the defense. I do see some mistakes and misfortune along the way though.

Personally, I dont let the Millen era effect how i think about this team in 2014. No offense, but who cares what happened then? Its over and the Lions still need help at WR.

Honestly, what are we really lacking on defense besides a great CB? We have a few areas that need upgrades like every other team. You are making a big deal about this because im on board with keeping the picks and drafting all defense if they want, but I also like the trade option. Gilbert and VanNoy would be great. Watkins and whoever would be great. Evans and whoever would be great. Mack and Latimer would be great. Clowney and whoever would be great. Lee and Shazier would be great. Ebron and Fuller would be great. Im going to trust what they choose to do until I see reason not to.

Its not like the Lions are forcing the issue just because Watkins is a WR. He is an elite prospect. Nobody can convince me that all Mayhew cares about is offense when they are about to give Suh a fortune to stay in Detroit.

 

[gandydancer]

Detroit had a powerful offense the year they made the playoffs. Stafford threw for over 5000 yards and 41 touchdowns. They put up over 400+ yards on New Orleans and what happened?

Pretty much the same thing that happened to most teams the Saints faced that season. IMO Schwartz had no clue how to gameplan. Sean Payton watched the game tape from earlier in season where Lions played them tough. Saints made adjustments and Lions staff did not.

Even that stout 49ers defense gave up 32 points 462 yards and 4TD's in NFC chip game. With that said, same thing with Saints over 400+ yards and what happened? Got beat by better team that day.

MikeD do you truly feel the same outcome happens with Seahawks and Broncos had they played 5 games? Not saying the Broncos win... just feel different games with game planning.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

MikeD do you truly feel the same outcome happens with Seahawks and Broncos had they played 5 games? Not saying the Broncos win... just feel different games with game planning.

Do I think it would be a blowout? No. Do I think Seattle is the better team? Absolutely.

Seattle's defense put up stats comparable to some of the best defenses of all time. Denver's offense put the best single season stats in the history of the NFL.

Obviously -- having a defense like Seattle isn't an option for the Lions as we have so many resources tied to the offense already. I just want to see Detroit spend some 1st and 2nd round picks on the back 7 to infuse some much needed talent into the lineup. Slay and Quin was a start last year. Levy had a career year in 2013 and while I would love to see him do it again -- picking off 6 passes as a LB isn't the norm.

I'd love to see the Lions get a dominate LB in the back 7. I'd love to see the Lions get an elite CB or an elite Safety. We have to do it thru the draft, as elite defensive players rarely hit the open market and it isn't as if Detroit is a prime destination. That is one of the main reasons I have been so vocal about not trading up, unless it is for defense.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Pretty much the same thing that happened to most teams the Saints faced that season. IMO Schwartz had no clue how to gameplan. Sean Payton watched the game tape from earlier in season where Lions played them tough. Saints made adjustments and Lions staff did not.

Even that stout 49ers defense gave up 32 points 462 yards and 4TD's in NFC chip game. With that said, same thing with Saints over 400+ yards and what happened? Got beat by better team that day.

Detroit didn't give up 400+ yards to New Orleans. Detroit gave up an NFL record 34 first downs and an NFL record 626 yards of total offense. The total offense record had stood for 49 years.

Detroit is the team who had over 400+ yards of offense in the game and were still embarrassed by the Saints.

Do you feel Detroit is a better defense now than in 2011? IMO, it is basically the same. I think they are better against the run, but worse against the pass. 2011's team forced many more turnovers and had more sacks.

 

[Old Lion]

As much as I want more defense to be drafted, I am not buying the whole Seattle / Denver bit. Seattle had a better game plan that day and thats why they won. It had nothing to do with the great defenses beat great offenses fallacy. Or the Defense wins championships fallacy. Offense will continue to have an advantage in the regular season and defense will have an advantage in the post season because refs tend to put away the hankies in the playoffs. Defenses get away with much more grabbing and bumping. The Patriots won their championships doing just that. Holding and interfering on every play and hoping it does not get called. If the refs let it go then the defense looks awesome.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Honestly, what are we really lacking on defense besides a great CB?

PLAY MAKERS!!! Players to force turnovers, players to consistently make big plays. Our CBs had TWO interceptions last year. Our best CB was 33 years old and picked up off the streets just before the season started. The guy with the most potential is Darius Slay, who just so happens to be the one player the Lions have drafted at CB in the 1st 2 rounds over the past decade plus.

Detroit's offense has 1st round picks up and down the roster -- from QB to RB to WR to TE to LT, etc.

Detroit's defense has 1st round picks on the DL and 2 of those guys are in the last year of their contract and unsigned after 2014. We have a #1 CB who is, at best, a #2 CB. We have a nickel CB, that in two years, has more PI's called against him than passes defensed.

Our top two LB'ers -- Levy and Tulloch have 3 forced fumbles combined for their CAREER. Not last season -- for their career. That is 13 seasons worth of football. I think Levy and Tulloch are solid players, but the defense needs someone to make plays and force turnovers.

With a defense that makes plays -- it takes pressure off the offense. The offense doesn't have to put up a ton of points every game. If they force turnovers the offense doens't have to go the length of the field to put up points.

Have to rock the little guy to sleep -- I'll come on later to discuss some more if there are responses.

 

[gandydancer]

At what point have the Lions had the best defensive line in football? I must have missed those years. Have they invested heavily in the defensive line? Absolutely. Have they been the best in the NFL? I'll let you tell me when that was.

I've also said repeatedly the Lions have spent picks on the defensive line. I'd like to see them use top picks elsewhere on the defense, where they need upgrades.

As far as chasing the unstoppable offense -- if you haven't noticed them trying to do this since the years of Matt Millen to now -- I can't help you. Since 2000, we've had 16 1st round picks. 12 have been spent on the offense, 4 have been spent on the defense.

Millen chased the unstoppable offense -- spending top pick after top pick on the offense. Mayhew has spread it out a little better, but he still has shown he is trying for the same concept. There is no need to type out the picks he has spent on the offense, as everyone can see them with their own eyes.

If you feel Mayhew has given the defense the same amount of attention he has spent on the offense -- then there is no need to even have this conversation.

2009
Staffford Pettigrew Delmas Levy
2010
Suh Best Spievey
2011
Fairley Young Leshoure
2012
Reiff Broyles Bentley
2013
Ziggy Slay Warford

Which conversation are you attempting to have? 2000 to present yes...2009 Mayhew era to present 3 defense 4 offense. Mayhew has chased the unstoppable offense?? So 3 of the 4 defensive 1st rd. picks under Mayhew's watch. HMMM? You can go back to 1957 to prove the arguement.

FA signings included may help you. Those have been a little tilted. Certainly not top picks.

 

[gandydancer]

As much as I want more defense to be drafted, I am not buying the whole Seattle / Denver bit. Seattle had a better game plan that day and thats why they won. It had nothing to do with the great defenses beat great offenses fallacy. Or the Defense wins championships fallacy. Offense will continue to have an advantage in the regular season and defense will have an advantage in the post season because refs tend to put away the hankies in the playoffs. Defenses get away with much more grabbing and bumping. .

on this part, had to delete the last part.

 

[Thruthefog]

If the Lions trade up to grab an offensive player, I hope it's Robinson. The only player in this draft who can actually take some of the pressure off of CJ.

 

[Thruthefog]

Whooooo! Aaron Donald or bust for me!

Donald will go before 10.

 

[LPinSLC]

Pretty much the same thing that happened to most teams the Saints faced that season. IMO Schwartz had no clue how to gameplan. Sean Payton watched the game tape from earlier in season where Lions played them tough. Saints made adjustments and Lions staff did not.

Even that stout 49ers defense gave up 32 points 462 yards and 4TD's in NFC chip game. With that said, same thing with Saints over 400+ yards and what happened? Got beat by better team that day.

MikeD do you truly feel the same outcome happens with Seahawks and Broncos had they played 5 games? Not saying the Broncos win... just feel different games with game planning.

I agree completely about the game planning. That coaching staff was always bad with gameplanning. I believe thats why we saw success early in the regular season followed by a collapse late.

To even try and judge what either side of the ball will be a complete waste of time. New staff and schemes. This team will be an entirely different team then what we saw under Schwartz. Hopefully it will be an improved team in every facet but until then, you guys are debating about the unknown.

 

[gandydancer]

Detroit didn't give up 400+ yards to New Orleans. Detroit gave up an NFL record 34 first downs and an NFL record 626 yards of total offense. The total offense record had stood for 49 years.

Detroit is the team who had over 400+ yards of offense in the game and were still embarrassed by the Saints.

Do you feel Detroit is a better defense now than in 2011? IMO, it is basically the same. I think they are better against the run, but worse against the pass. 2011's team forced many more turnovers and had more sacks.

Yes IMO much better at this point before draft. 2011 they had to play Wendling in games. Not on ST. Might feel better after the draft. Records get broke. Saints had 6 games over 500 yards that season. Broncos at times made teams look stupid this year. Aginst the Ravens 7 passing TD's. Ravens vs. Lions this high profile offense you speak of did shit!

One game in scope of the season is not end all be all. That 2011 defense still helped win enough games to get to playoffs.

Take a look at the Chiefs defense this season +/- of 354,000 had those playmakers all over the field. Meant nothing come playoffs.