Maybe it is time to trade Wentz

[downundermike]

His logic is just so stupid. If a defense stops the Eagles it is Wentz fault for not making plays. If our defense does not stop anyone it is not their fault because they have no talent and injuries.

Exactly. The Eagles defense could not do what every other defense did that Sunday, make ONE stop without surrendering points on a 4th quarter drive.

Tennessee. The defense give up 3 4th down conversions on one drive. The Eagles drove down and took the lead in OT. It is the defenses job to then make ONE stop. That drive was led by Marcus Marriotta, who has been benched for Ryan Tannehill.

Both of these games are 100% on the defense.

 

[PhillyGreen]

i have trouble ignoring bullshit.

Then I am not sure how you live with yourself.

except for the fact i constantly say we're old, lacking talent and don't have the proper pieces. it's not my fault you cannot grasp a new coach isn't going to come in, spread his pixie dust and turn this defense into the 49ers or pats.

This argument would have some validity if you applied it to other aspects of the team.

good to see you keep cherry picking when wentz does something, but ignore when he is continually bending the defense over with his mistakes.

The problem here is that you can't seem to keep up with your own argument. All I did was point out the games that I believe the Defense was directly responsible for the loss. You then switch the enter argument around and added shit that had nothing to do with my point such as adding the Vikings game. It is not cherry picking. It is using relevant information to refute what you are saying. Your standard response to every defense complaint is we're old, lacking talent and don't have the proper pieces. I think that argument is stupid because if you an elite defensive coach which you seem to think Schwartz is you would be able to formulate a defensive game plan for the pieces you have. T

so, you're ignoring the fact the eagles only had 6 points in 3 quarters and 256 yards (like 175 in the 4th) for the whole game? of course you're trying to solely blame the defense again. 9 points in 3 quarters for them. WHO DID THEIR JOB FOR MOST OF THE GAME AND WHO DIDN'T? you keep trying to break it down to 1 or 2 plays to favor your argument. there wouldn't be an argument if wentz could lead the team like foles and push 25-35 on the board most games.

What the fuck does that have to do with anything? Again, you complain about cherry picking and do the exact thing you are complaining about. Carson Wentz was the front runner for MVP before he got injured. That is what makes this argument so fucking stupid. You picked this one game to try to say how great Foles. You do remember before he went on the magical run in the playoffs he sucked right? There was even talk if he should even start in those playoffs. He has never duplicated those performances so they were the exception and not the norm.

just like with the wentz and foles discussion, you cannot grasp reality and the topic at hand. you have your mouth firmly locked on wentz' nuts.. where as i have REPEATEDLY stated our WHOLE roster is old and lacking talent (that includes the defense, in case you still can't grasp it.) i am highly impressed that schwartz could have a bunch of scrubs, bums and rejects hit the top 5 one year and borderline top 10 for a couple of other seasons. they finally might break down now in his 4th year.

Locked on Wentz nuts? I asked you to find a post where I did not admit when he played bad. If you can't or are unwilling to look you need to shut the fuck up about it.

 

[John]

phiLLies - As I said before, it is my opinion that, until Wentz gets better weapons at WR, this offense will stink. WHEN he gets those weapons, he will be a MUCH better QB. If he gets those weapons and he STILL stinks, THEN I will agree with you.
Since I'm not one of the people that you have been arguing with, I'm going to ask you for a favor. Could you PLEASE be the better person and stop this argument already? It's dragging on too long.
Wait awhile and then MAYBE I'll join you.
For TWO YEARS, I was also laughed at and mocked for saying that the Eagles needed better WR's. So I know where you're coming from.

 

[_phiLLies_]

phiLLies - As I said before, it is my opinion that, until Wentz gets better weapons at WR, this offense will stink. WHEN he gets those weapons, he will be a MUCH better QB. If he gets those weapons and he STILL stinks, THEN I will agree with you.
Since I'm not one of the people that you have been arguing with, I'm going to ask you for a favor. Could you PLEASE be the better person and stop this argument already? It's dragging on too long.
Wait awhile and then MAYBE I'll join you.
For TWO YEARS, I was also laughed at and mocked for saying that the Eagles needed better WR's. So I know where you're coming from.

i still disagree with that. wentz himself did great in 2017, although he was also a huge threat running. foles did great in 2017. foles did great in 2018. what's changed for 2019? our defense sucks because we're focused so much on the offense. but with that said, you're obviously respectful with your opinion.. so i always enjoy hearing it (i believe i said that before as well.)

the argument can't stop because fans have to play favorites and talk nonsense. reich, foles and schwartz were big players in why we won a superbowl. one left because he obviously deserved a promotion, and is doing awesome work. another got the boot for doing everything right so we could go with a different QB who can't match his play. and a bunch of these guys want the 3rd man fired because our defense (loaded with scrubs) can't dominate every week.

i remember saying to you that you need to be in the little click here (either shit talkers or from a different forum) to have your talk matter. just like your receiver comments, people brush aside my "need to get younger" comments. now others are making them, and it's like "oh yeah, totally agree!"

but i'll try to drop it for you

 

[SU Nittany Tide]

Alternate Angle Released Shows How Bad Nelson Agholor Gave Up On Easy Catch During SNF (VIDEO)

Agholar gave up on a bomb that was perfect. What in the hell?

 

[Orlando Eagles]

Alternate Angle Released Shows How Bad Nelson Agholor Gave Up On Easy Catch During SNF (VIDEO)

Agholar gave up on a bomb that was perfect. What in the hell?

Well....we all have come to know that he is HORRIBLE at tracking a long ball. Maybe he is literally that horrible that he didn’t even know it was right there?

I only mention this as my first thought was “are these guys just really trying to make him look bad?” But there is just no logic there. Best answer is he just can’t track it.

Weird thing is he tracked some deep balls just fine in 2017. But I’m feeling more and more like he was possessed by something that year and has been back to his old self the last year and a half.

 

[_phiLLies_]

i'm trying to stay out of this.. but you all need to wake up and stop blaming agholor.

the first 2 games of 2018 were under foles. he had 8 catches against the falcons and another 8 against the bucs. 16 catches, 131 yards, 1 TD. 1 play 50+ yards.

the next 11 games of 2018 were under wentz. 37 catches, 451 yards, 0 TD. 2 plays 50+ yards.

the last 3 game of 2018 were under foles. 11 catches, 164 yards, 3 TD. 1 play of 50+ yards.

so, pull the math together..

wentz (11): 37 catches, 451 yards, 0 TD, 2 plays 50+
foles (5): 27 catches, 285 yards, 4 TD, 2 plays 50+

wentz: 37 catches/60 targeted
foles: 27 catches/37 targeted

the end result is one of the things i've been discussing. foles uses all his weapons, and he does so accurately and all over the field. wentz does not look for guys like agholor often, and when he does, he frequently misses the mark. agholor was perfectly fine hauling in a nasty deep ball from foles against the texans. with a defender hanging on him he caught it over his shoulder and broke away for the 83 yard TD. wentz can't hit him in stride like that, i'm sorry.

 

[PhillyGreen]

Well....we all have come to know that he is HORRIBLE at tracking a long ball. Maybe he is literally that horrible that he didn’t even know it was right there?

I only mention this as my first thought was “are these guys just really trying to make him look bad?” But there is just no logic there. Best answer is he just can’t track it.

Weird thing is he tracked some deep balls just fine in 2017. But I’m feeling more and more like he was possessed by something that year and has been back to his old self the last year and a half.

One thing is clear. Agholor is a bust. He is a 1st round pick that did not meet expectations. His best year is his 3rd year under Carson Wentz and that is after there was already a lot of talk about him being moved on from. He is playing under his 5th year option and it is clear the team has zero intention of keeping him. He is an average receiver at best.

 

[eaglesnut]

Agholor peaked in college. He was better then than he is now.

Our WR coach doesn't produce any gems at any of the positions and the guys that are expected to contribute get worse.

 

[downundermike]

Agholor peaked in college. He was better then than he is now.

Our WR coach doesn't produce any gems at any of the positions and the guys that are expected to contribute get worse.

Agreed. If he can be moved for a pick, get it done.

 

[_phiLLies_]

people still going on about the agholor bust nonsense? lets just look at that draft alone..

4th - amari cooper. obviously know his abilities.

7th - kevin white. 14 games & 25 catches over 3 years. not even in the NFL any more(?)

14th - devante parker. 60 games, 187 catches, 2560 yards, 12 TD, 119 first downs.

20th - nelson agholor. 68 games, 214 catches, 2413 yards, 18 TD, 101 first downs.

26th - breshad perriman. 42 games, 62 catches, 932 yards, 5 TD, 38 first downs. on his 3rd team in 4 years.

29th - phillip dorsett. 64 games, 116 catches, 1523 yards, 10 TD, 67 first downs.

how is agholor the bust?!

 

[PhillyGreen]

people still going on about the agholor bust nonsense? lets just look at that draft alone..

4th - amari cooper. obviously know his abilities.

7th - kevin white. 14 games & 25 catches over 3 years. not even in the NFL any more(?)

14th - devante parker. 60 games, 187 catches, 2560 yards, 12 TD, 119 first downs.

20th - nelson agholor. 68 games, 214 catches, 2413 yards, 18 TD, 101 first downs.

26th - breshad perriman. 42 games, 62 catches, 932 yards, 5 TD, 38 first downs. on his 3rd team in 4 years.

29th - phillip dorsett. 64 games, 116 catches, 1523 yards, 10 TD, 67 first downs.

how is agholor the bust?!

2400 yards from a 1st round pick in almost 5 years? Are you fucking serious!!!!

 

[_phiLLies_]

2400 yards from a 1st round pick in almost 5 years? Are you fucking serious!!!!

lack of knowledge and common sense, so sad. agholor is a #20 pick slot receiver who has had trouble catching the ball at times. yet he has still managed to be of some value and pick up multiple 700+ yard seasons.

you might want to educate yourself on all the receivers taken in the 1st round since 2015. when you do, come back and share how great they are. or i can save you the trouble and just say you'll be extremely disappointed. agholor was NEVER set to become some kind of star. just because you're drafted in the 1st round doesn't make it so, especially towards the back end of the round. nor does it make you a "bust" if you play just decent/average/serviceable.

there were 21 1,000+ yard receivers in 2018. 15 in 2017. yet you label him a bust for being mid 700's, in the slot, as the 3rd-4th option in our passing scheme? OK. if the eagles just dropped him right now, he'd have NO TROUBLE at all finding a new gig.

 

[Rey]

people still going on about the agholor bust nonsense? lets just look at that draft alone..

4th - amari cooper. obviously know his abilities.

7th - kevin white. 14 games & 25 catches over 3 years. not even in the NFL any more(?)

14th - devante parker. 60 games, 187 catches, 2560 yards, 12 TD, 119 first downs.

20th - nelson agholor. 68 games, 214 catches, 2413 yards, 18 TD, 101 first downs.

26th - breshad perriman. 42 games, 62 catches, 932 yards, 5 TD, 38 first downs. on his 3rd team in 4 years.

29th - phillip dorsett. 64 games, 116 catches, 1523 yards, 10 TD, 67 first downs.

how is agholor the bust?!

Bust is a harsh term ... but he has not lived up to what I expected (and I was one of his biggest fans coming out of college). White and Perriman are definitely busts. Parker, Dorsett and Agholor are on the same level ... "average" pro receivers. Agholor by far has been given the most opportunity out of this bunch (snaps and scheme), so the numbers are obviously going to look better, but he's been a let down. Too many big drops, not enough big plays and he is simply not a good ball tracker. I would take Parker over him in a heartbeat ...

 

[_phiLLies_]

Bust is a harsh term ... but he has not lived up to what I expected (and I was one of his biggest fans coming out of college). White and Perriman are definitely busts. Parker, Dorsett and Agholor are on the same level ... "average" pro receivers. Agholor by far has been given the most opportunity out of this bunch (snaps and scheme), so the numbers are obviously going to look better, but he's been a let down. Too many big drops, not enough big plays and he is simply not a good ball tracker. I would take Parker over him in a heartbeat ...

i think agholor has only been a letdown in the sense we expected A LOT from him. but unfortunately, we've been doing this with every receiver for years. we've heard numerous times how talented mack hollins is and how much potential he has. reality is he's just a back end 4th round pick who impressed at training camp or made a play here and there in preseason action. happens all the time. and i easily agree on taking parker over agholor.

 

[_phiLLies_]

already showed the results of 2015. these are the 1st's since.

2016:

15th - corey coleman. 413/305/71 yard seasons. injured reserve. 5 career TD.

21st - will fuller. 635/423/503/450 (current) seasons. 16 career TD.

22nd - josh doctson. 66/502/532 seasons. injured reserve. 8 career TD.

23rd - laquon treadwell. 15/200/302/16 (current) seasons. 1 career TD.

2 of these guys are out for 2019.

2017:

5th - corey davis. 375/891/326 (current) seasons. 6 career TD.

7th - mike williams. 95/664/419 (current) seasons. 10 career TD.

9th - john ross. 0/210/328 (current-injured) seasons. 10 career TD.

i loved corey davis coming out of the draft. 5th pick though with those numbers? ross played in 3 games his rookie year, started 1 and didn't make a catch. he ran the ball once, fumbled and lost it.

2018:

24th - d.j. moore. 788/463 (current) seasons. 3 career TD.

26th - calvin ridley. 821/443 (current) seasons 14 career TD.

2019:

25th - maquise brown. 326 yards, 3 TD.

32nd - n'keal harry. injured reserve.

 

[TheSnowdog]

I'm shocked Wentz wasn't traded

 

[knowyourenemy]

lack of knowledge and common sense, so sad. agholor is a #20 pick slot receiver who has had trouble catching the ball at times. yet he has still managed to be of some value and pick up multiple 700+ yard seasons.

you might want to educate yourself on all the receivers taken in the 1st round since 2015. when you do, come back and share how great they are. or i can save you the trouble and just say you'll be extremely disappointed. agholor was NEVER set to become some kind of star. just because you're drafted in the 1st round doesn't make it so, especially towards the back end of the round. nor does it make you a "bust" if you play just decent/average/serviceable.

there were 21 1,000+ yard receivers in 2018. 15 in 2017. yet you label him a bust for being mid 700's, in the slot, as the 3rd-4th option in our passing scheme? OK. if the eagles just dropped him right now, he'd have NO TROUBLE at all finding a new gig.

Looking at overall stats is stupid. 1st round draft picks shouldn’t drop the ball as much as he does. Just because other 1st round picks have sucked doesn’t mean that other teams aren’t getting production from their young wide receivers. We’re not getting enough from Agholor. He’s a decent player but we unfortunately need more than that.

 

[Rey]

i think agholor has only been a letdown in the sense we expected A LOT from him. but unfortunately, we've been doing this with every receiver for years. we've heard numerous times how talented mack hollins is and how much potential he has. reality is he's just a back end 4th round pick who impressed at training camp or made a play here and there in preseason action. happens all the time. and i easily agree on taking parker over agholor.

When you take a receiver in Rd 1 and on top of it pick up his option at nearly 10 mil ... you expect a good bit. If Agholor was a 4th or 5th rounder his production would be much more acceptable. Then again he wouldn't be making anywhere near what he's made so far; plus he likely wouldn't have been given as many chances as he's been given either. It's all relative.

 

[_phiLLies_]

yeah, stats and facts are dumb!

agholor is listed at 3 drops this season. cooper, beckham, sanu have 4. kelce and fuller have 5. edelman has 6. just random examples.

some players that have a lower percentage caught: ginn jr., beasley, watkins, cooks, ertz, evans, beckham, gordon (who some here want) parker, crazy antonio brown, robby anderson (again, wanted here) sanu.

agholor is durable. he's a slot receiver. he's a team player who only talks about winning. he's already had 768 & 736 yard seasons. he had 9 catches for 84 yards in the superbowl, and even rushed for 9. in 5 playoff games he has 19 catches/205 yards and 5 rushes/41 yards. if wentz looked to him more like foles did, he'd be a borderline 1,000 yard receiver out of the slot.

but he's a bust or some garbage receiver because he isn't working the outside? because he drops a few passes here and there like EVERYONE on this team? this is the random bullshit that pisses me off about "fans." if we're just talking about money, that's a completely seperate deal. but we're not. people thinking he's anything close to a bust is.. pitiful. just going to leave it at that.

maybe we can see someone throw the ball to whiteside before declaring him a round 2 bust.