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Maybe it is time to trade Wentz

Roy Munson

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these dudes forever have no answers to all the wentz problems.

1) wentz was 4-2 at north dakota state as a 5th year senior in 2015. after getting hurt, FRESHMAN easton stick went 8-0 in his place (does this sound familiar?) the eagles could have easily traded up to get stick this past draft in the 5th round. the chargers took him at #166. the eagles took thorson at #167 instead. gee, wonder why? NDSU has been dominating for years. they've only lost multiple times in a season twice since 2010. and wentz was able to do it in 6 games as a 5th year senior. system QB and still outplayed.

2) wentz was labeled a dangerous pick in the draft, a significantly higher risk than your typical #1-2 pick QB situations. yet homer fans keep trying to label him "elite".. even though he's in the process of his 3rd losing season out of 4.

3) anonymous sources keep throwing shade his way, multiple times. everything from the way he prepares, attacks, dismisses help, refuses to call certain plays, etc. serious negative action.

4) wentz had a similar offense and receivers in 2017, his one truly good season. now that same offense and same weapons aren't good enough 2 years later, in 2019? :noidea:

5) part of what made wentz so good in 2017 was his scrambling/running ability, which i said would immediately be gone as soon as he suffered that injury. and that's 100% fact.

6) wentz continues to miss the rare deep balls he throws, week after week. and we're now at the point of blaming receivers for getting space, but not full out diving for his poor throws. agholor was open against the jets deep down the sidelines, wentz threw it 5 yards out of bounds. hollins pushed off in the endzone against the vikings, wentz whizzed the throw high and wide instead of lofting it. agholor was open against the cowboys, wentz missed high and wide again. people are reduced to taking weird angles and claiming agholor (an average slot receiver) should have went full extension.. as if it was his fault he didn't see the poor throw. his throws wobble and flutter half the time, an issue so many brought up his rookie season.

7) lets keep making fun of nick foles being hurt. even though he started and finished all 3 of his seasons at arizona and has only been given a couple FULL chances to start in the NFL. and we'll ignore wentz has only managed two full seasons between college and the NFL.

we can keep going all day, but it just produces the same results. "derp" "fucking retard" "wentz da bestesttststst" meanwhile, the results wentz produces on the field can't be erased or altered.

Wait, your clever/not so clever play on words pretends that Foles is less brittle than Wentz.

How many 16 game seasons has Foles played?

What was Foles record last year when Wentz took over?

Can you also tell me, oh wise one, is it easier to catch footballs with your hands together in front of you, or at your sides as you watch the ball almost land on your foot?

And you're kidding yourself if you think the 2019 weapons are the same as 2017. How about we include coaches and make it even more of a joke.
 

_phiLLies_

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Wait, your clever/not so clever play on words pretends that Foles is less brittle than Wentz.

How many 16 game seasons has Foles played?

What was Foles record last year when Wentz took over?

Can you also tell me, oh wise one, is it easier to catch footballs with your hands together in front of you, or at your sides as you watch the ball almost land on your foot?

And you're kidding yourself if you think the 2019 weapons are the same as 2017. How about we include coaches and make it even more of a joke.

we can keep doing this all day.

foles went undefeated after wentz went down in 2017, outplayed brady and won the superbowl.

wentz 2018: 5-6 record, 69.6% completion, 21 TD-7 INT, 31 sacks, QBR: 62.0
foles 2018: 4-1 record, 72.3% completion, 7 TD-4 INT, 9 sacks, QBR: 65.4

the eagles averaged 22 points per under wentz. it was 25 under foles.

wentz 2019: 3-4 record, 61.3% completion, 13 TD-4 INT, 13 sacks, QBR: 64.1

sadly, foles was injured doing what he does so well.. staying in the pocket, taking a hit and delivering a sweet 1v1 deep ball for a TD. he was already 5-8 with 75 yards/1 TD barely past the halfway mark of the 1st quarter.

pathetic anyone will use that as an excuse to knock foles. he got drilled as he threw and the guy landed on top of him. the only other option is to be paranoid like 'elite carson' and scramble away scared for your life. then the fans can blame the receivers.

NO ONE has been able to counter the point; at worst, on this team, foles can do exactly what wentz does. so why let one walk instead of trading the other one for extreme value? value that doesn't exist now.
 

Rey

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Foles is gone ... the Eagles weren't going to pick him over Wentz after the capital they invested in him as well as he being younger than Foles (who's also shown signs of not sticking with football for the long haul). I do understand the frustration with Wentz however ... my stance is somewhere in the middle of this whole argument. Even though I am a fan of Wentz, I really wish he would get the ball out quicker. He never takes the check down and tries to keep the play alive too long while always looking downfield. He tries to play like Pat Mahomes without having the speed receivers needed for that style. This team as it is built right now is more suited for a player like Foles who will take what the D gives him instead of trying to pick up 20 yards on every throw. We simply don't have the horses at WR to play the style Wentz is trying to play ... maybe if we had a healthy DJax, but until he comes back we don't have that in our bag of tricks.
 

Roy Munson

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we can keep doing this all day.

foles went undefeated after wentz went down in 2017, outplayed brady and won the superbowl.

wentz 2018: 5-6 record, 69.6% completion, 21 TD-7 INT, 31 sacks, QBR: 62.0
foles 2018: 4-1 record, 72.3% completion, 7 TD-4 INT, 9 sacks, QBR: 65.4

the eagles averaged 22 points per under wentz. it was 25 under foles.

wentz 2019: 3-4 record, 61.3% completion, 13 TD-4 INT, 13 sacks, QBR: 64.1

sadly, foles was injured doing what he does so well.. staying in the pocket, taking a hit and delivering a sweet 1v1 deep ball for a TD. he was already 5-8 with 75 yards/1 TD barely past the halfway mark of the 1st quarter.

pathetic anyone will use that as an excuse to knock foles. he got drilled as he threw and the guy landed on top of him. the only other option is to be paranoid like 'elite carson' and scramble away scared for your life. then the fans can blame the receivers.

NO ONE has been able to counter the point; at worst, on this team, foles can do exactly what wentz does. so why let one walk instead of trading the other one for extreme value? value that doesn't exist now.

AND he ignores 2017 again because it does't fit his argument...
 

Roy Munson

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Fluke things happen to Foles to injure him every year... But Carson is just brittle. - @_phiLLies_
 

_phiLLies_

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Foles is gone ... the Eagles weren't going to pick him over Wentz after the capital they invested in him as well as he being younger than Foles (who's also shown signs of not sticking with football for the long haul). I do understand the frustration with Wentz however ... my stance is somewhere in the middle of this whole argument. Even though I am a fan of Wentz, I really wish he would get the ball out quicker. He never takes the check down and tries to keep the play alive too long while always looking downfield. He tries to play like Pat Mahomes without having the speed receivers needed for that style. This team as it is built right now is more suited for a player like Foles who will take what the D gives him instead of trying to pick up 20 yards on every throw. We simply don't have the horses at WR to play the style Wentz is trying to play ... maybe if we had a healthy DJax, but until he comes back we don't have that in our bag of tricks.

"This team as it is built right now is more suited for a player like Foles"

that's exactly why i wanted to keep him. would the eagles have changed their minds based on fan reactions? obviously, odds are extremely slim. but it wouldn't have hurt to support the guy who was the better fit. instead everyone turned it into the most basic shit a 9 year old girl could identify.. "wentz better than foles!"

i get made fun of, insulted and talked trash to for detailing how old this team is, how we need to reload, etc. now people are starting to see it. and the next step? fans think we'll just draft so and so, or sign these guys, do this and that. and NO, it's not going to happen like that. it will take several years to alter both sides of the ball and completely revamp the roster. we can get lucky here and there, but odds are we're stuck on 7-9 wins per year for a while. there's just WAY too much old age or lack of talent on both lines, at linebacker, in the secondary. it can't be taken care of in one, or even two offseasons.

but we could have started that process already. now it's really fucked up.
 

Orlando Eagles

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Foles is gone ... the Eagles weren't going to pick him over Wentz after the capital they invested in him as well as he being younger than Foles (who's also shown signs of not sticking with football for the long haul). I do understand the frustration with Wentz however ... my stance is somewhere in the middle of this whole argument. Even though I am a fan of Wentz, I really wish he would get the ball out quicker. He never takes the check down and tries to keep the play alive too long while always looking downfield. He tries to play like Pat Mahomes without having the speed receivers needed for that style. This team as it is built right now is more suited for a player like Foles who will take what the D gives him instead of trying to pick up 20 yards on every throw. We simply don't have the horses at WR to play the style Wentz is trying to play ... maybe if we had a healthy DJax, but until he comes back we don't have that in our bag of tricks.

That’s a really good read! This has been the “problem” with Wentz. It’s likely something that gives him flack from the WR room. I feel it’s a big reason why he looks at Ertz so much. He hasn’t had a health stable backfield option with great hands before this year. When the shit hits the fan he wants to throw it to the most dependable catcher. And often times that most dependable catcher is Ertz. Look at how much these WRs drop the ball right in their hands. It creates a fault as a QB. But it wasn’t one that we saw in week 1 because he had a speed receiver that could separate when he had a split second to unleash the ball.

He has done better at taking the dump offs this year. Coincidentally he has had backfield options with better hands. If his play is more styled like a Mahomes than it just takes us back to the main problem I see with this team this year. It’s not the talent, or even lack of, on the field. It’s how the team is being set up/coached.

If the team is going to invest so much in the guy they need to keep going and put the right receivers around him. None of that fixes this year (though Robbie Anderson could be a good start) but it needs to be done.
 

Rey

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Eagles have to replace Agholor who's been putrid in the slot with drops and mis-played balls with a player who can get open "quickly" for Wentz. All Agholor brings to the table is long speed, but he has bad hands and he can't track the deep ball, so it nullifies his deep speed. At the #2 receiver DJax was the perfect fit, but unfortunately he only was able to play opening day for us prior to getting hurt week 2. If we can get DJax back for the 2nd half of the season I think this Offense will see improvement. In the upcoming Draft "or" free agency the Eagles need to take a look at "good" slot type receivers as well as a future outside speed option to replace DJax (Draft) when he hangs em up. Arcega-Whiteside can fit into Alshon's possession role in the near future.
 

Orlando Eagles

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Eagles have to replace Agholor who's been putrid in the slot with drops and mis-played balls with a player who can get open "quickly" for Wentz. All Agholor brings to the table is long speed, but he has bad hands and he can't track the deep ball, so it nullifies his deep speed. At the #2 receiver DJax was the perfect fit, but unfortunately he only was able to play opening day for us prior to getting hurt week 2. If we can get DJax back for the 2nd half of the season I think this Offense will see improvement. In the upcoming Draft "or" free agency the Eagles need to take a look at "good" slot type receivers as well as a future outside speed option to replace DJax (Draft) when he hangs em up. Arcega-Whiteside can fit into Alshon's possession role in the near future.

Heard a good point this morning....DJax should have just had the surgery. It was a 6-7 week recovery. We are about there now and they are still warning that when he is back it won't be 100% right away. Oh well.

That's a good point on JJAW...maybe that was what was in mind all along, Alshon's replacement. Just needs to season.

They certainly do need to look at speed. They have been so locked on height the last few years (Goedert, JJAW) and I get it It's great to have all that height when in the red zone. But that height doesnt seem to help you get into the red zone very well.
 

old duke

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Eagles have to replace Agholor who's been putrid in the slot with drops and mis-played balls with a player who can get open "quickly" for Wentz. All Agholor brings to the table is long speed, but he has bad hands and he can't track the deep ball, so it nullifies his deep speed. At the #2 receiver DJax was the perfect fit, but unfortunately he only was able to play opening day for us prior to getting hurt week 2. If we can get DJax back for the 2nd half of the season I think this Offense will see improvement. In the upcoming Draft "or" free agency the Eagles need to take a look at "good" slot type receivers as well as a future outside speed option to replace DJax (Draft) when he hangs em up. Arcega-Whiteside can fit into Alshon's possession role in the near future.


Draft KJ Hamler in the 2nd round in the next draft to be the heir apparent to DJAX, and as the PR. 1st round, the best defensive player available. Move Douglas to safety, draft a stud CB early, and a DT or DE with size and quickness.
 

PhillyGreen

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Carson Wentz is a big part of the reason we are 3-4 and not 0-7. His play has not been stellar but it has been enough to keep us in most game aside from the Vikings and Cowboys fiasco's. Anyone that thinks Foles would do better this year than Wentz has lost their damn minds. The offense as we have it built now is probably better designed for Foles`because he is better with dink and dunk but that does not mean he is the better QB. It also does not mean it would have equated to more wins. The style of QB play suited for Foles is not good for having to come from behind by 2 touchdowns every game. Truth is the Eagles would probably have a worse record of Foles was here.
 

djm

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I like both Foles and Wentz. I think Wentz has the bigger upside and we can agree to disagree. If they kept Foles and dealt Wentz I wouldn't have agreed but am an Eagles fan no matter what. We put pieces around Foles but with Djax hurt we can't do things we have planned. Once he gets back I am pretty sure the offense takes off again.

I put most of this on Doug. It is his job to evaluate the OC & DC. I didn't' think either one of them should have come back this year. I see very little creativity in our playbook.

If we don't fix the play calling what does it matter what QB we have here?
 

Roy Munson

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Carson Wentz is a big part of the reason we are 3-4 and not 0-7. His play has not been stellar but it has been enough to keep us in most game aside from the Vikings and Cowboys fiasco's. Anyone that thinks Foles would do better this year than Wentz has lost their damn minds. The offense as we have it built now is probably better designed for Foles`because he is better with dink and dunk but that does not mean he is the better QB. It also does not mean it would have equated to more wins. The style of QB play suited for Foles is not good for having to come from behind by 2 touchdowns every game. Truth is the Eagles would probably have a worse record of Foles was here.

not if you assume Agholor would have caught every ball that Foles threw to him...
 

_phiLLies_

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Draft KJ Hamler in the 2nd round in the next draft to be the heir apparent to DJAX, and as the PR. 1st round, the best defensive player available. Move Douglas to safety, draft a stud CB early, and a DT or DE with size and quickness.

i'm thinking as the season progresses, hamler won't be a 2nd rounder any more.
 

_phiLLies_

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Carson Wentz is a big part of the reason we are 3-4 and not 0-7. His play has not been stellar but it has been enough to keep us in most game aside from the Vikings and Cowboys fiasco's. Anyone that thinks Foles would do better this year than Wentz has lost their damn minds. The offense as we have it built now is probably better designed for Foles`because he is better with dink and dunk but that does not mean he is the better QB. It also does not mean it would have equated to more wins. The style of QB play suited for Foles is not good for having to come from behind by 2 touchdowns every game. Truth is the Eagles would probably have a worse record of Foles was here.

uhhhh. the jets scored 6 points off a special teams turnover and the eagles defense scored 14. not to mention the great field position we had. i'm pretty sure wentz wasn't a "big part" of that win. so that leaves the skins (a horrible team that jackson exposed) and the packers (we had more rushing yards than passing.)

once again, you're a fucking idiot to imply foles would have this team at 1-6 or 2-5 at best, all because you can't get wentz' nuts out of your mouth. straight up, we'd probably be no worse than the 3-4 we are now. but if it were foles, then we'd also have more help via the wentz trade.

the same with your "dink and dunk" comment. this is wentz defined. he already has 3 sub 191 yard passing games this season. foles loves to go downfield, especially to guys like agholor and alshon. but then again, maybe more guys need to go behind his back and complain for you to get the message.
 

_phiLLies_

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Carson Wentz is a big part of the reason we are 3-4 and not 0-7. His play has not been stellar but it has been enough to keep us in most game aside from the Vikings and Cowboys fiasco's. Anyone that thinks Foles would do better this year than Wentz has lost their damn minds. The offense as we have it built now is probably better designed for Foles`because he is better with dink and dunk but that does not mean he is the better QB. It also does not mean it would have equated to more wins. The style of QB play suited for Foles is not good for having to come from behind by 2 touchdowns every game. Truth is the Eagles would probably have a worse record of Foles was here.

forgot to add this irony too; the defense you love to hate is largely responsible for 2 of the 3 wins. they completely dominated the jets. then against the packers, they got a strip sack to set up an easy TD and picked off rodgers in the endzone to finish off the game.. AFTER WENTZ MISSED 2 SIMPLE THROWS to ice it. what, you think wentz won that game because he threw for 160 yards? LOFL. we rushed for 176. the packers let him dump all game.
 

PhillyGreen

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forgot to add this irony too; the defense you love to hate is largely responsible for 2 of the 3 wins. they completely dominated the jets. then against the packers, they got a strip sack to set up an easy TD and picked off rodgers in the endzone to finish off the game.. AFTER WENTZ MISSED 2 SIMPLE THROWS to ice it. what, you think wentz won that game because he threw for 160 yards? LOFL. we rushed for 176. the packers let him dump all game.

Get the fuck out of here with with this stupid shit. First of the Jets game don't count. They had a practice squad QB playing. Don't sit here and try to make it see like this defense did something. The Jets? What a stupid fucking point.

Against the Packers the Offense bailed out the Defense because it gave up almost 500 yards and 27 points. That is horrible. Wentz was perfect in the Red Zone. The offense was the reason the Eagles beat the Packers. The defense played like the prostitute it truly is.
 

old duke

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I think it's time for the moderator to step in with this feud.
 
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