Mariners Need to Get Creative with Their Closer Problem

[PolarVortex]

Diaz was a nice shot in the arm while it lasted, but as by August of last year we were starting to see that Diaz does not have the mental makeup to be a closer. He an still be dominant on any given night but he lacks the confidence to hold the job down long term.

Cishek probably will not get the next save opportunity the Mariners find themselves in. It will probably be Tony Zych, but Zych isn't a long term answer anyway. I also think he serves the team better as a setup man in tandem with Vincent.

Altavilla may be a future closer but right now he just needs to get his feet wet in the majors.

We could go the route of the Red Sox/Braves/Athletics and turn a once time ace pitcher into our closer. But, no, I don't think Felix has the speed on his fastball to take over that role and besides, we need to give him at least one more shot to re-gain his place as one of our top three starters.

So what do we do?

 

[NWinAZ]

Sign an experience closer with a proven track record of success...of wait that ship has sailed for this year. The cheap, cheap, cheap M's won't spend the money on a proven bullpen even though the only success this org has seen was built around a solid 7th-9th inning shutdown pen.

 

[AceKeptic]

Hope to heck our bats can still produce.

 

[Mariners_44]

Sign an experience closer with a proven track record of success...of wait that ship has sailed for this year. The cheap, cheap, cheap M's won't spend the money on a proven bullpen even though the only success this org has seen was built around a solid 7th-9th inning shutdown pen.

I would agree with you if it were a few years back, but sitting at 12th in overall payroll isn't exactly cheap-cheap-cheap. At some point we need to have someone who knows baseball well enough to integrate youth with a couple of sprinkled high contracts to create a winner from lineup to rotation to bullpen. As soon as we are legitimately out of contention it is time for JeDi to continue building our roster with youth while freeing up money for next year. This means we should move Cruz and Seager, and not because I don't like them because it'll bum me out if traded; but it's for the greater good of the team. We need to invest in Segura and pitching in the offseason.

 

[NWinAZ]

I would agree with you if it were a few years back, but sitting at 12th in overall payroll isn't exactly cheap-cheap-cheap.

That is closer to the middle than the top so to me that is definitely cheap, cheap, cheap. This is a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 16 seasons and hasn't made it past the first round in what 22 seasons? Then has the balls to say we are going for it or all in? A team that owns not just the state for baseball, but an entire region. So if not top 5 payroll, then they just don't care to win.

As soon as we are legitimately out of contention it is time for JeDi to continue building our roster with youth while freeing up money for next year.

Sorry, but that is B.S. We don't need to free up any money we just need to spend it. You are telling billionaires they need to free up millions to be fiscally responsible while making hundreds of millions in franchise equity like Nintendo just did and all other owners have done in the last 30 years.

I am not trying to pick on you because I know you are a true fan and a knowledgeable one as well, but I will never back any suggestion that these guys need to cap their expenditures in any way because none of them have ever lost money on baseball. None. I owned a business for 8 years and not once did any government agency ever build me a place to work allowing me to profit, nonetheless profit mega millions.

 

[Cloud]

I would agree with you if it were a few years back, but sitting at 12th in overall payroll isn't exactly cheap-cheap-cheap. At some point we need to have someone who knows baseball well enough to integrate youth with a couple of sprinkled high contracts to create a winner from lineup to rotation to bullpen. As soon as we are legitimately out of contention it is time for JeDi to continue building our roster with youth while freeing up money for next year. This means we should move Cruz and Seager, and not because I don't like them because it'll bum me out if traded; but it's for the greater good of the team. We need to invest in Segura and pitching in the offseason.

And majority of those guys on the payroll are on the offense, not to mention they are Zduriencik's guys and JD has very little control on these guys, they're stuck on the roster whether we like it or not and it certainly inflated the payroll. Being 12th in payroll when some of the heavy earners are from the Z days is not JD's fault.

What he is at fault for is going cheap on the pen and it is clearly hurting this team. Before they have no set-up guys for the 7th and 8th inning but now they have no closer.

Either way, I agree. Cruz and Seager will be sought for by the deadline so they need to move them.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

I was listening to sports radio months back and the skipper and other people were comparing Diaz to Mariano Rivera.. I was like, huh ? Pump the breaks

 

[Mariners_44]

Sorry, but that is B.S. We don't need to free up any money we just need to spend it. You are telling billionaires they need to free up millions to be fiscally responsible while making hundreds of millions in franchise equity like Nintendo just did and all other owners have done in the last 30 years.

I guess I should have added to my point a bit. When I look at guys like Seager and Cruz, I see opportunity to free up money. Not for the sake of getting under a self implemented cap, I'm saying in terms of future salary that doesn't live up to the contract. Even as a huge Kyle Seager fan, I see him as a roadblock after this year when he is around or above $20 million a year while hitting .255 from third base. Take that $20 and go try to land Machado in the $25 range and we have something; that means spending more money. I look at Cruz who is hitting lights out with as high of value possible as someone that is a sell high because his $14 million for next year could be some of what locks up Segura and lands a possible arm in the process. All I am saying is we have dead money in contracts that if we ever plan to go anywhere it's time to clear up that money and focus on the youth. FWIW, I could give two shits of how much ownership spends. As far as I'm concerned I would love to see a $200 million dollar payroll if it meant we had all the right pieces. That being said, I'm a firm believer that its just as important to know how to put a team together as having the funds to do so.

I am not trying to pick on you because I know you are a true fan and a knowledgeable one as well, but I will never back any suggestion that these guys need to cap their expenditures in any way because none of them have ever lost money on baseball. None. I owned a business for 8 years and not once did any government agency ever build me a place to work allowing me to profit, nonetheless profit mega millions.

No picking noticed here buddy, that's what these boards are for. Without these boards, my opinions on the M's fall on deaf ears, so thanks for the debating.

 

[Mariners_44]

And majority of those guys on the payroll are on the offense, not to mention they are Zduriencik's guys and JD has very little control on these guys, they're stuck on the roster whether we like it or not and it certainly inflated the payroll. Being 12th in payroll when some of the heavy earners are from the Z days is not JD's fault.

What he is at fault for is going cheap on the pen and it is clearly hurting this team. Before they have no set-up guys for the 7th and 8th inning but now they have no closer.

Either way, I agree. Cruz and Seager will be sought for by the deadline so they need to move them.

Wait a minute......

All very good points, but aren't you supposed to be done for the season?

 

[NWinAZ]

I guess I should have added to my point a bit. When I look at guys like Seager and Cruz, I see opportunity to free up money. Not for the sake of getting under a self implemented cap, I'm saying in terms of future salary that doesn't live up to the contract. Even as a huge Kyle Seager fan, I see him as a roadblock after this year when he is around or above $20 million a year while hitting .255 from third base. Take that $20 and go try to land Machado in the $25 range and we have something; that means spending more money. I look at Cruz who is hitting lights out with as high of value possible as someone that is a sell high because his $14 million for next year could be some of what locks up Segura and lands a possible arm in the process. All I am saying is we have dead money in contracts that if we ever plan to go anywhere it's time to clear up that money and focus on the youth. FWIW, I could give two shits of how much ownership spends. As far as I'm concerned I would love to see a $200 million dollar payroll if it meant we had all the right pieces. That being said, I'm a firm believer that its just as important to know how to put a team together as having the funds to do so

My bad. I agree totally for that reason. I misread and should have known better because you aren't one to back bad management. Sorry about that.

 

[WizardHawk]

I was listening to sports radio months back and the skipper and other people were comparing Diaz to Mariano Rivera.. I was like, huh ? Pump the breaks

They were comparing him to Pedro just last night on the post game show. Complete with stats and whatnot.

 

[PolarVortex]

I would agree with you if it were a few years back, but sitting at 12th in overall payroll isn't exactly cheap-cheap-cheap. At some point we need to have someone who knows baseball well enough to integrate youth with a couple of sprinkled high contracts to create a winner from lineup to rotation to bullpen. As soon as we are legitimately out of contention it is time for JeDi to continue building our roster with youth while freeing up money for next year. This means we should move Cruz and Seager, and not because I don't like them because it'll bum me out if traded; but it's for the greater good of the team. We need to invest in Segura and pitching in the offseason.

Trade Cruz? Seems logical. Next year is his walk year and he'll be a year older. He will have much less value then than he does now. But the issue I have with that is that Cruz is signed to a bargain contract. $14 million a year for a 40+ homerun guy with a .950+ OPS? That's a true bargain in today's MLB.

Trading Seager is logical too. But I can't help but think that they are going to make him the franchise guy if they decide on going the fire sale route. In a fire sale scenario I would see them moving Cano for about .70 on the dollar and trading Cruz while keeping their two homegrown guys, Seager and Felix, to put butts in seats. They pretty much have to keep Felix. They couldn't even get .30 on the dollar for his contract right now.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

They were comparing him to Pedro just last night on the post game show. Complete with stats and whatnot.

lol, crazy talk... I actually met Pedro, got to talk baseball with him one time.. It was back in 2003 or 2004 before Boston won there first title since forever... Boston was in town playing the M's and he was down town at a club, he was cool, intense guy for sure, but cool ... That dude OWNED the Marines in his prime.. He owned a lot of teams for that matter...

 

[PolarVortex]

In back-to-back appearances, Tony Zych has shown us why he shouldn't be our closer-in-waiting. So who do we turn our desperate eyes to now? Nick Vincent? James Pazos? I like Vincent better as a setup guy but I'd endorse giving him a shot. But I kind of like the letting Pazos audition for the role. He's only given up an earned run twice in 17 appearances and his fastball is as good as Diaz' is. Lefty closers are uncommon but there have been a few good ones: John Franco, Billy Wagner.

 

[NWinAZ]

In back-to-back appearances, Tony Zych has shown us why he shouldn't be our closer-in-waiting. So who do we turn our desperate eyes to now? Nick Vincent? James Pazos? I like Vincent better as a setup guy but I'd endorse giving him a shot. But I kind of like the letting Pazos audition for the role. He's only given up an earned run twice in 17 appearances and his fastball is as good as Diaz' is. Lefty closers are uncommon but there have been a few good ones: John Franco, Billy Wagner.

Not to mention Chapman, Perkins, and Britton. If you can pitch, you can pitch. Not sure if Pazos has the nerves for it, but at this point what do we have to lose?

 

[Mariners_44]

Trade Cruz? Seems logical. Next year is his walk year and he'll be a year older. He will have much less value then than he does now. But the issue I have with that is that Cruz is signed to a bargain contract. $14 million a year for a 40+ homerun guy with a .950+ OPS? That's a true bargain in today's MLB.

Trading Seager is logical too. But I can't help but think that they are going to make him the franchise guy if they decide on going the fire sale route. In a fire sale scenario I would see them moving Cano for about .70 on the dollar and trading Cruz while keeping their two homegrown guys, Seager and Felix, to put butts in seats. They pretty much have to keep Felix. They couldn't even get .30 on the dollar for his contract right now.

It is a bargain deal, which makes his value that much more intriguing to other teams. We could have him signed for $1 million a year right now, but if we are in the midst of another lame duck season his value is deemed worthless to the Mariners. A Cruz that mashes at $14 million a year could become a future starter or future catcher if JeDi makes the right move in trading him.

 

[NWinAZ]

It is a bargain deal, which makes his value that much more intriguing to other teams. We could have him signed for $1 million a year right now, but if we are in the midst of another lame duck season his value is deemed worthless to the Mariners. A Cruz that mashes at $14 million a year could become a future starter or future catcher if JeDi makes the right move in trading him.

I believe we are at the point, or close to, looking at the roster and deciding who will (should) be here for the next 3-4 years and be contributors obviously. Those who don't meet that criteria should be moved while their value is at its highest. I love Cruz, but at his age will he be a factor for the next 3 to 4 years following this season? Seager? Dyson? I truly think it is that time of year to start asking those questions if I am JD...which I am not...or am I?

 

[Cloud]

Wait a minute......

All very good points, but aren't you supposed to be done for the season?

Hahahha

I'm still around the forums... i just tune in to the game from time to time to see the scores... it's just strictly following the box scores now!

 

[Cloud]

I believe we are at the point, or close to, looking at the roster and deciding who will (should) be here for the next 3-4 years and be contributors obviously. Those who don't meet that criteria should be moved while their value is at its highest. I love Cruz, but at his age will he be a factor for the next 3 to 4 years following this season? Seager? Dyson? I truly think it is that time of year to start asking those questions if I am JD...which I am not...or am I?

And at his age he's going to at least try to play for a contender. Let's not forget one of the reasons he was signed was this team was supposed to contend and they fell flat on their face after a well played previous season.

By all means with the ways things are going now, he shouldn't be here and I don't blame him if he comes out and say he don't want to be here.